Boges Posted September 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 Just now, Infidel Dog said: Define what you mean by force. Will you consider coercion? I do. And I bet Shady does too. People have the right to refuse. Those rights will come with consequences depending on the vocation of said person. Fox News mandates vaccines for its staff. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/19/media/fox-vaccine-passport/index.html NAZIS!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) The Ontario rules of mandate segregates any who won't produce papers showing they've been jabbed - twice (for now) - be kept out of the public sphere or at least the parts of it that would allow them to feel comfortable. https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1000779/ontario-to-require-proof-of-vaccination-in-select-settings I think it's going to take hyperbolic metaphor to show you why that kind of coercion is force. So here goes... Suppose some crazy guy has control of a girl in a room in his basement. Suppose he comes down unlocks the door to the room and tells the girl "Blow me or I'll lock you in the closet again." Is coercion force? Edited September 13, 2021 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) Oh and Fox news has been going Prog since the Murdoch kids took over from Dad. Did the Arizona election coverage not show you that? Tucker is still the most watched news show on cable though. Can't be killing the golden goose just because you don't like the way he squawks. Edited September 13, 2021 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: Suppose some crazy guy has control of a girl in a room in his basement. Suppose he comes down unlocks the door to the room and tells the girl "Blow me or I'll lock you in the closet again." Is coercion force? If that's what you think is going on here, I got nothing for you. No one is being locked in a closet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) I said it was hyperbolic but people are being threatened with segregation. In America Biden says he's going to take your job away if you're working for a large company and don't want to get vaccinated. Metaphorically he's threatening to lock them in the closet. Edited September 13, 2021 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 This is what they mean by choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Shady said: This is what they mean by choice. Define "everything" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) At this point we’re using flamethrowers to kill flies. I get that certain vaccinated control freaks can’t handle a slim minority of the population resisting the vaccine, but you have to take away their livelihood and basic freedoms too? It’s the same mentality that shoots a child for stepping onto his property to get a stray basketball. Totally out of proportion. We’re sitting with about 600 daily cases in Ontario, quiet hospitals, and almost 85% of eligible Ontarians fully vaccinated, yet we have to mask up and show our papers to attend a movie. Is this really the kind of world you want to live in? Edited September 13, 2021 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Boges said: Define "everything" Employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 13 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Employment. You were willing to take away the employment of "the vulnerable" a year ago, so you wouldn't have to wear a mask and could go to a restaurant. What changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 17 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: At this point we’re using flamethrowers to kill flies. I get that certain vaccinated control freaks can’t handle a slim minority of the population resisting the vaccine, but you have to take away their livelihood and basic freedoms too? It’s the same mentality that shoots a child for stepping onto his property to get a stray basketball. Totally out of proportion. We’re sitting with about 600 daily cases in Ontario, quiet hospitals, and almost 85% of eligible Ontarians fully vaccinated, yet we have to mask up and show our papers to attend a movie. Is this really the kind of world you want to live in? While the pandemic still goes on, unvaccinated people are risk to themselves. They choose not to follow public health guidelines, therefore they're going to be treated differently than the rest of us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 49 minutes ago, Boges said: While the pandemic still goes on, unvaccinated people are risk to themselves. They choose not to follow public health guidelines, therefore they're going to be treated differently than the rest of us. Why this need to dictate other people’s health decisions? I’m fully vaccinated and think vaccination is good, but your need to control other adults’ health decisions seems like a pathological need for control. You just said it impacts them. You’re protected. Lay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Why this need to dictate other people’s health decisions? Why this need to deny that unvaccinated people risk other's health and well-being, as they spread the disease and backlog hospitals so that other sick people who are vaccinated but sick, or can't be vaccinated and are sick, can't get treatment or have to have treatment compromised? Edited September 14, 2021 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 Just now, dialamah said: Why this need to deny that unvaccinated people risk other's health and well-being, as they spread the disease and backlog hospitals so that other sick people who can't be vaccinated, can't get treatment? Vaccinated can spread the disease too. Hospitals are fine. Most eligible people are vaccinated. The unvaccinated are rolling the dice with their own lives which is their prerogative. Interesting that you take zero interest in protecting late term fetuses but you’re all about chasing down the unvaccinated who are mostly just putting themselves at risk. What about sterilization or forced abortion for population control? What about chopping off the arms of thieves so they can’t steal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Vaccinated can spread the disease too But who is more likely to spread it - those who get sick from it, or those who don't? Please tell us, oh wise one. /s 28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Hospitals are fine So the people who aren't getting surgeries because the hospital is full of Covid patients in the ICU are lying about that? Along with doctors, nurses and other health professionals who are saying they're overwhelmed with patients - they're lying too? And what about the nurses and other health care workers who are leaving because they can't handle the unending stream of Covid patients filling up ICU beds, dying slow/painful deaths? Everyone is lying about this? Everybody is a liar - except you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, dialamah said: But who is more likely to spread it - those who get sick from it, or those who don't? Please tell us, oh wise one. /s So the people who aren't getting surgeries because the hospital is full of Covid patients in the ICU are lying about that? Along with doctors, nurses and other health professionals who are saying they're overwhelmed with patients - they're lying too? And what about the nurses and other health care workers who are leaving because they can't handle the unending stream of Covid patients filling up ICU beds, dying slow/painful deaths? Everyone is lying about this? Everybody is a liar - except you? Cite. I’ve only read about this phenomena in the third wave and in a few hospitals at present. I posted the stats for Ontario two weeks ago. 200-250 patients in ICU’s with a 25,000 acute care bed capacity. Edited September 14, 2021 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Why this need to dictate other people’s health decisions? I’m fully vaccinated and think vaccination is good, but your need to control other adults’ health decisions seems like a pathological need for control. You just said it impacts them. You’re protected. Lay off. We've seen Over and over and over and over again globally that when COVID cases explode, all other forms of healthcare suffer. Alberta and Saskatchewan are going through it right now. Edited September 14, 2021 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, Boges said: We've seen Over and over and over and over again globally that when COVID cases explode, all other forms of healthcare suffer. Alberta and Saskatchewan are going through it right now. Yep. But that doesn’t override people’s fundamental rights. Suck it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Shady said: Yep. But that doesn’t override people’s fundamental rights. Suck it up. Those rights were overridden plenty of times throughout this pandemic. Where are the court cases? I still don't think you comprehend that this passport will only apply to a narrow set of indoor non-essential activities. Where in the charter does it state that you have an absolute right to go to a GYM? Edited September 14, 2021 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Shady said: Yep. But that doesn’t override people’s fundamental rights. Suck it up. Article 7 of the constitution: 7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. The government has a duty to implement policies that will protect thelife and security of everyone in the society. Just as a drunk driver can drink if he chooses, but can't drive because it impacts the life and security of others, so the unvaccinated are limited from some activities because their choice impacts the life and security of others. Choices and consequences. Suck it up. Edited September 14, 2021 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 36 minutes ago, Boges said: Those rights were overridden plenty of times throughout this pandemic. Where are the court cases? I still don't think you comprehend that this passport will only apply to a narrow set of indoor non-essential activities. Where in the charter does it state that you have an absolute right to go to a GYM? Rights can only be overridden by tyranny. That’s why their called RIGHTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 27 minutes ago, dialamah said: Article 7 of the constitution: 7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. The government has a duty to implement policies that will protect thelife and security of everyone in the society. Just as a drunk driver can drink if he chooses, but can't drive because it impacts the life and security of others, so the unvaccinated are limited from some activities because their choice impacts the life and security of others. Choices and consequences. Suck it up. Complete nonsense. The constitution outlines what the government CANNOT DO. You guys are a piece of work! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Shady said: Complete nonsense. The constitution outlines what the government CANNOT DO. You guys are a piece of work! ? Oh, well I expect courts to overturn these measures in short order then. . . Oh wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Boges said: Alberta and Saskatchewan are going through it right now. The same day they announced that hospitals were overflowing, I went on AHS's website which is updated daily. That was Sept. 8. It said that of 8500 acute care beds, 98.5% of them were "open and available." 2 days later on Sept 10, the update was exactly the same - 98.5% of beds available. Of my friends who are nurses, including a close relative, they all say the government is not necessarily lying, but not telling the truth either. They ARE getting burnt out. The initial covid wave was hard on them but now it's the fact that provinces have cut back on health care, letting doctors and nurses go and they are severely understaffed. They also tell me that the lack of beds in some hospitals is not due to covid, but again - due to governmental cutbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Goddess said: The same day they announced that hospitals were overflowing, I went on AHS's website which is updated daily. That was Sept. 8. It said that of 8500 acute care beds, 98.5% of them were "open and available." 2 days later on Sept 10, the update was exactly the same - 98.5% of beds available. Of my friends who are nurses, including a close relative, they all say the government is not necessarily lying, but not telling the truth either. They ARE getting burnt out. The initial covid wave was hard on them but now it's the fact that provinces have cut back on health care, letting doctors and nurses go and they are severely understaffed. They also tell me that the lack of beds in some hospitals is not due to covid, but again - due to governmental cutbacks. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-icu-fourth-wave-internal-modelling-icu-capacity-1.6174329 Alberta ICU occupancy is higher than it was in the Spring. So they're all just lying? Edited September 14, 2021 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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