It Begins. . . Quebec and NYC to implement Vaccine Passports.

[Boges]

34 minutes ago, Shady said:

Not really.  Because your medical information is supposed to be private. Wearing shoes or a shirt has nothing to do with privacy.  Nice try though.

You didn't think governments haven't looked at this already? 

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/opc-news/speeches/2021/s-d_20210519/

Quote

 

Above all, and in light of the significant privacy risks involved, the necessity, effectiveness and proportionality of vaccine passports must be established for each specific context in which they will be used.

Necessity: vaccine passports must be necessary to achieve each intended public health purpose. Their necessity must be evidence-based and there must be no other less privacy-intrusive measures available and equally effective in achieving the specified purposes.

Effectiveness: vaccine passports must be likely to be effective at achieving each of their defined purposes at the outset and must continue to be effective throughout their lifecycle.

Proportionality:  the privacy risks associated with vaccine passports must be proportionate to each of the public health purposes they are intended to address. Data minimization should be applied so that the least amount of personal health information is collected, used or disclosed. 

 

So if it can be determined the Passport can be for the public good, and would be effective at the perceived goal, it is legal. 

Privacy is a bit of a BS argument.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Boges

[Shady]

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

You didn't think governments haven't looked at this already? 

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/opc-news/speeches/2021/s-d_20210519/

So if it can be determined the Passport can be for the public good, and would be effective at the perceived goal, it is legal. 

Privacy is a bit of a BS argument.

It’s not a b.s. argument.  Yes, the public good is being used to tear down all of our civil liberties.  And sheep continue to go along with it.

[Boges]

19 minutes ago, Shady said:

It’s not a b.s. argument.  Yes, the public good is being used to tear down all of our civil liberties.  And sheep continue to go along with it.

In this case the public good argument applies. Especially when considering the decorum of many Anti-Vaxxers. It's not likey the present the most intellectual argument. 

The activities that a passport will be applied to might otherwise be subject to a total lockdown. And that's not in the public good, considering 2/3 of the population or more people have gotten vaccinated with little or no issue. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Boges

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

In this case the public good argument applies. Especially when considering the decorum of many Anti-Vaxxers. It's not like the present the most intellectual argument. 

The activities that a passport will be applied to might otherwise be subject to a total lockdown otherwise. And that's not in the public good, considering 2/3 of the population or more people have gotten vaccinated with little or no issue. 

I suppose.  I would be more sympathetic if these things were actually being voted on in legislatures, you know, the way laws are suppose to be constructed.  I’d also be more sympathetic if these things had expiry dates.  But everything gets done by decree now.  Democracy!

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Shady said:

I suppose.  I would be more sympathetic if these things were actually being voted on in legislatures, you know, the way laws are suppose to be constructed.  I’d also be more sympathetic if these things had expiry dates.  But everything gets done by decree now.  Democracy!

That could happen. It seems the only National Party that is for "Vaccine Freedom" is the PPC. 

And a vote for them is most definitely a vote for JT and the Liberals. 

Even Alberta will be dragged kicking and Screaming to a Passport. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/mandatory-isolation-testing-to-continue-indefinitely-as-alberta-covid-19-cases-rise-1.6166352

Kenney is starting to bribe people with $100 Gift Cards. That's pathetic. 

[cougar]

6 hours ago, Boges said:

My work has mandated Masks and Social Distancing. How is mandating vaccines all that different? 

The way watching a porn movie is actually different from having sex , that's how!

If I ask you to put a mask on, you can then take it off when you leave the premises.   If you are vaccinated , no way to undo that.   

"restrictions on work" is very different from not being able to work at all because of not being vaccinated. So different, you shouldn't even mention it , as it is no valid argument.

[cougar]

7 hours ago, Shady said:

It’s not a b.s. argument.  Yes, the public good is being used to tear down all of our civil liberties.  And sheep continue to go along with it.

Not only liberties, it is also used to destroy the environment.  All those pipelines, dams and mines - all are supposedly for the public good.

You then wonder, how come, you do not feel any of that good coming to you.  I guess, we the majority of the citizens, are not really part of the "public".

Edited September 7, 2021 by cougar

[Boges]

11 minutes ago, cougar said:

The way watching a porn movie is actually different from having sex , that's how!

If I ask you to put a mask on, you can then take it off when you leave the premises.   If you are vaccinated , no way to undo that.   

"restrictions on work" is very different from not being able to work at all because of not being vaccinated. So different, you shouldn't even mention it , as it is no valid argument.

You can be terminated, with cause for not complying with Workplace Safety measures. 

I'd like some of the Anti Vax crowd to highlight some promising court cases you think will have this overturned. Cuz this is happening in the 3 largest provinces. I don't know of any credible way for it to be stopped. 

Or is this like with Trump's challenging of the election, the Kracken keeps never getting released. 

[Shady]

33 minutes ago, cougar said:

Not only liberties, it is also used to destroy the environment.  All those pipelines, damns and mines - all are supposedly for the public good.

You then wonder, how come, you do not feel any of that good coming to you.  I guess, we the majority of the citizens, are not really part of the "public".

Non-sequitur.

 

[Shady]

26 minutes ago, Boges said:

You can be terminated, with cause for not complying with Workplace Safety measures. 

I'd like some of the Anti Vax crowd to highlight some promising court cases you think will have this overturned. Cuz this is happening in the 3 largest provinces. I don't know of any credible way for it to be stopped. 

Or is this like with Trump's challenging of the election, the Kracken keeps never getting released. 

What private business do is their choice and are not bound by the same constraints as government.  I believe we’ve already been over this.

[cougar]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

You can be terminated, with cause for not complying with Workplace Safety measures.

With the idea that you will learn the lesson and comply with the safety measures on your new job.  Usually non-compliance in the case you mention, refers to not knowing or following the established safety procedures and practices or making mistakes, like not wearing PPE when you have to.  These are conditions, the employee agreed to follow before being hired!

Now the table has turned a different way; employment conditions have been changed from under the employee.  The employee never accepted being vaccinated as a condition of employment.

If terminated, an unvaccinated employee will not find a job with another employer or be rehired.  Worse than being a killer who just served his 25 year sentence !!!    This type of monstrosity I cannot approve! 

[cougar]

53 minutes ago, Shady said:

What private business do is their choice and are not bound by the same constraints as government.  I believe we’ve already been over this.

My feeling is, the government may at one point mandate the private business to enforce the same requirements.  If the private business owners are vaccinated themselves, they may not see anything wrong with asking their employees to get vaccinated.  Some people will get screwed again.

[Boges]

14 hours ago, cougar said:

If terminated, an unvaccinated employee will not find a job with another employer or be rehired.  Worse than being a killer who just served his 25 year sentence !!!    This type of monstrosity I cannot approve! 

Well, getting vaccinated is not an unreasonable requirement. To most well-adjusted humans that is. 

[Boges]

Here's a good benchmark we'll need too look at. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-554-new-covid-19-cases-16-more-deaths-1.5577020

Quote

 

Many of us in medicine, in science, or in public health who are watching this closely, we are kind of walking on eggshells at the moment. The numbers do matter... when you look at where we were last year versus where we are now, we do have more people in ICUs and that's really the pinch point," he said. 

"ICUs are limited in capacity in Ontario as they are elsewhere in Canada. We just don't have a tonne of ICU capacity compared to other countries that are similar to Canada. That's tricky." 

He said intensive care capacity was pushed to the brink during the third wave of the pandemic.

"We shut down the province. We had to cancel all scheduled surgeries and shut down the province when there were about 550 people in Ontario ICUs because we were really threatened with having our health-care system being stretched beyond capacity," he said. 

"We ended up with about 900 people in Ontario ICUs and that was dangerous." 

 

As of today here's where we are. School just started yesterday. 

Quote

Virus-related intensive unit (ICU) care admissions continue to rise in the province. The Ministry of Health says there are 194 COVID-19 patients in the ICU, including 115 who are breathing with the assistance of a ventilator. That is up from 163 and 98 respectively one week ago.

The VAST!!! majority of people in the ICU are unvaxxed. And they make up around 30% of the population. 

[cougar]

7 hours ago, Boges said:

Well, getting vaccinated is not an unreasonable requirement. To most well-adjusted humans that is. 

Totally unreasonable!   If you want to put chemicals into your bloodstream every 6 months, till your body stops fighting the virus, go ahead.  Your choice.   My body, my choice.

[OftenWrong]

21 hours ago, cougar said:

Worse than being a killer who just served his 25 year sentence !!!    This type of monstrosity I cannot approve! 

I cannot approve that there is no exemption even for the small percentage of people who are unable to get vaccinated. That is simply laziness and lack of care on the governments part. Instead of callous dismissals like we are hearing from Boney Heiny et al, they could find a way to accommodate them.

That would put my conscience at ease.

[Boges]

16 hours ago, cougar said:

Totally unreasonable!   If you want to put chemicals into your bloodstream every 6 months, till your body stops fighting the virus, go ahead.  Your choice.   My body, my choice.

And your choice not to comply with public health requirements. And to face the consequences of that choice. 

[Boges]

16 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I cannot approve that there is no exemption even for the small percentage of people who are unable to get vaccinated. That is simply laziness and lack of care on the governments part. Instead of callous dismissals like we are hearing from Boney Heiny et al, they could find a way to accommodate them.

That would put my conscience at ease.

Ontario will allow such an exemption. 

Though for the narrow range of things that are being targeted by the passport, I would question why an immuno-compromised person would want to expose themselves to the virus in such a way. 

[OftenWrong]

50 minutes ago, Boges said:

Ontario will allow such an exemption.

I'm well aware. Not the case for BC and Quebec. If Ontario can do that so can the others. Yet they chose specifically not to. As bitchhenry said, they will have to wait this out for a year, "or so."

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I'm well aware. Not the case for BC and Quebec. If Ontario can do that so can the others. Yet they chose specifically not to. As bitchhenry said, they will have to wait this out for a year, "or so."

Are they being denied any essential services? 

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Are they being denied any essential services? 

How about a job?

 

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

How about a job?

I'd like to hear some of those instances. 

If Healthcare workers can't get vaccinated, I suspect that's not the best job for them. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

Just now, Boges said:

I'd like to hear some of those instances. 

Why? You won't give a shit anyway.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Why? You won't give a shit anyway.

It would provide context. I may be more sympathetic. 

The Vaccine passport is a public health policy against gathering indoors unmasked if you're unvaxxed. The rhetoric that it's this communist plot against freedom is precious and pathetic. These are things most of the country have had to do without for the first half of 2021. And the passport is a tactic to prevent it from happening again. 

Employers can decide if they want their employees vaxxed, and usually provide a testing provision if they can't get vaxxed. 

Fox News demands its employees are vaxxed. 

[Zeitgeist]

48 minutes ago, Boges said:

It would provide context. I may be more sympathetic. 

The Vaccine passport is a public health policy against gathering indoors unmasked if you're unvaxxed. The rhetoric that it's this communist plot against freedom is precious and pathetic. These are things most of the country have had to do without for the first half of 2021. And the passport is a tactic to prevent it from happening again. 

Employers can decide if they want their employees vaxxed, and usually provide a testing provision if they can't get vaxxed. 

Fox News demands its employees are vaxxed. 

Vaccine passports and mandatory vaccinations are not leading to a reduction in restrictions at all.  Provide even one example indicating otherwise.