It Begins. . . Quebec and NYC to implement Vaccine Passports.

[Zeitgeist]

Unfortunately my prediction that vaccination, vaccine mandates, and vaccine passports won’t end restrictions is coming true.  I just found out that masking and the wearing of visors, including outside, will be required at my workplace for vaccinated people, representing an increase in restrictions.  Even though I’m fully vaccinated, I’m now convinced that those who have been fighting restrictions and vaccine passports were right.  It won’t matter how many people are vaccinated and if it’s a requirement to be vaccinated, restrictions will continue, unjustly.  This is blatant oppression.  

[OftenWrong]

14 hours ago, Boges said:

It's irrelevant because Vaxxed people are overwhelmingly not getting sick when/if they get infected.

It's not ok though because the longer you allow a virus to exist and spread, creates a greater chance for it to mutate outside of the control provided by the vaccine. That is understood and known to be an issue in the management of disease outbreaks for decades already as well. I have no reason to lie or make this stuff up.

It's been indicated that mRNA vaccines are only effective for a short time, in comparison to traditional vaccines that can last for a year or more. It looks like it doesn't do much to stop the spread of disease, just makes it more survivable.

Therefore the best thing to do is shut the hell out of everything, because as long as we are playing host to the parasite, it will evolve and could eventually beat us at this game.

Should have managed this totally differently. You people are fools... you've screwed us all...

Edited September 3, 2021 by OftenWrong

[Boges]

7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's not ok though because the longer you allow a virus to exist and spread, creates a greater chance for it to mutate outside of the control provided by the vaccine. That is understood and known to be an issue in the management of disease outbreaks for decades already as well. I have no reason to lie or make this stuff up.

It's been indicated that mRNA vaccines are only effective for a short time, in comparison to traditional vaccines that can last for a year or more. It looks like it doesn't do much to stop the spread of disease, just makes it more survivable.

Therefore the best thing to do is shut the hell out of everything, because as long as we are playing host to the parasite, it will evolve and could eventually beat us at this game.

Yet only a quarter, or less, of the positive cases in Ontario are coming from vaxxed people. 

Quote

Should have managed this totally differently. You people are fools... you've screwed us all...

[Boges]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Unfortunately my prediction that vaccination, vaccine mandates, and vaccine passports won’t end restrictions is coming true.  I just found out that masking and the wearing of visors, including outside, will be required at my workplace for vaccinated people, representing an increase in restrictions.  Even though I’m fully vaccinated, I’m now convinced that those who have been fighting restrictions and vaccine passports were right.  It won’t matter how many people are vaccinated and if it’s a requirement to be vaccinated, restrictions will continue, unjustly.  This is blatant oppression.  

That's in lieu of a Vaccine mandate. If you had one and knew everyone at your works was vaccinated you'd likely not need masks. 

[Boges]

Toronto Doctor ringing alarm bells for the ICU numbers steady rise. 

What's he complaining about? Just give them Invermectin! ?

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Yet only a quarter, or less, of the positive cases in Ontario are coming from vaxxed people. 

Lets just stick to facts. The shutdown is looming, some ate saying even bigger wave than before. Before was unvaxxed.

The fact that vax reduces symptoms could mean there are many silent carriers out there. They may not be getting tested. 

You advanced this theory yourself the other day, but now are scrambling to move your own goal posts.

Its now fashionable to blame a small minority of people who are not vaccinated for the continued transmission, yet the majority are vaccinated, and are told they are still at high risk and must continue protective measures.

Those are facts.

Really seems like you people have vaxxed yourselves into a corner. 

Vaxx on, vaxx off

 

[Boges]

30 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Lets just stick to facts. The shutdown is looming, some ate saying even bigger wave than before. Before was unvaxxed.

The fact that vax reduces symptoms could mean there are many silent carriers out there. They may not be getting tested. 

You advanced this theory yourself the other day, but now are scrambling to move your own goal posts.

Its now fashionable to blame a small minority of people who are not vaccinated for the continued transmission, yet the majority are vaccinated, and are told they are still at high risk and must continue protective measures.

Those are facts.

Really seems like you people have vaxxed yourselves into a corner. 

Vaxx on, vaxx off

 

None of your post is a fact, just your delusional anti-vax opinions. 

The shutdown is looming if unvaccinated people keep getting very sick. 

The anti-vax community has not en masse moved their talking points to transmission. When we know lockdowns aren't caused by community spread, they're caused by Hospital systems being strained by very sick people. Which then leads to diminished care for the entire public, vaxxed or not. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

None of your post is a fact, just your delusional anti-vax 

Its not a fact for you Boges that we will be shut down soon? You still believe that if they get the last few percent to vaccinate, we will drop the restrictions? Carry on dreaming.

[OftenWrong]

And Boges you disagree that keeping viral transmission high is risking new mutations?

Carry on dreaming.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Its not a fact for you Boges that we will be shut down soon? You still believe that if they get the last few percent to vaccinate, we will drop the restrictions? Carry on dreaming.

Perhaps you need to work on your English. 

"Prediction" and "Fact" are different words and have different meanings. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Boges

[Boges]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

And Boges you disagree that keeping viral transmission high is risking new mutations?

Carry on dreaming.

Even if it was, it's far less than letting the disease mutate amongst a largely unvaxxed population. 

That's the weakest argument against vaccination yet. 

The goal here is to make the disease endemic. Meaning people can get it, but it's either not noticed or the symptoms are mild. We can get their by herd immunity through natural transmission or through vaccination. It seems the vaccination route will lead to fewer ICU visits. 

 

Quote

 

en·dem·ic

/enˈdemik/

(of a disease or condition) regularly found among particular people or in a certain area.

"complacency is endemic in industry today"

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Boges said:

That's in lieu of a Vaccine mandate. If you had one and knew everyone at your works was vaccinated you'd likely not need masks. 

Not so.   We have a vaccine mandate and added restrictions.  

[cougar]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:31 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Not so.   We have a vaccine mandate and added restrictions.  

I am waiting for a riot to start so I can join in.

The other day I saw a guy at the bank who refused to put a mask on and requested to close his bank account.  After discussions with the bank manager he was let go inside with no mask and put his signature on the paperwork.

All worked fine in this case.  But how is the poor guy going to get into a restaurant?  How is he going to get on a plane?  How is he going to keep his job if his employer all of a sudden is forced to obey the insane message sent through the media by politicians and asks him to vaccinate and put a mask on?

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, cougar said:

1.  But how is the poor guy going to get into a restaurant? 
2. "forced to obey the insane message sent through the media by politicians"

1. Are you seriously weighing his "right" to "get into a restaurant" vs. safety concerns of spreading disease ?
2. If you think laws are "insane" you still have to follow them.  Your framing of the question reveals a lack of understanding of civic responsibility and a sense of entitlement that confuses "citizen" with "customer".  You are NOT a customer of the country, you are a citizen.

[cougar]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Are you seriously weighing his "right" to "get into a restaurant" vs. safety concerns of spreading disease ?
2. If you think laws are "insane" you still have to follow them.  Your framing of the question reveals a lack of understanding of civic responsibility and a sense of entitlement that confuses "citizen" with "customer".  You are NOT a customer of the country, you are a citizen.

Masks are annoying but I don't mind wearing one whenever I have to , to fulfill my obligation as a citizen.

However getting vaccinated is not my obligation to a country or anyone.  

Forcing citizens to put chemicals into their blood stream under duress is not democracy.

Your theory that unmasked and unvaccinated people spread the virus more than masked or vaccinated ones is questionable.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, cougar said:

1. Masks are annoying but I don't mind wearing one whenever I have to , to fulfill my obligation as a citizen.

2. However getting vaccinated is not my obligation to a country or anyone.  

1. Well, good for you.
2. No, but they are not obliged to accommodate you either.

[cougar]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. No, but they are not obliged to accommodate you either.

Being able to work or being able to travel, like anyone else is not "accommodation".   It is a right!

The way a business "accommodates" a guy with a turban, a black guy, a middle east woman with her face covered, a crippled person, a blind one who has a service dog with him,  or face discrimination charges - THIS IS HOW they will be accommodating unvaccinated people.  There is no other way around.

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, cougar said:

1.Being able to work or being able to travel, like anyone else is not "accommodation".   It is a right!

2. The way a business "accommodates" a guy with a turban, a black guy, a middle east woman with her face covered, a crippled person, a blind one who has a service dog with him,  or face discrimination charges - THIS IS HOW they will be accommodating unvaccinated people.  There is no other way around.

1. You are wrong.

2. Not the same thing.

[cougar]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You are wrong.

2. Not the same thing.

The fact YOU think that, doesn't mean you are correct.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

Masks are annoying but I don't mind wearing one whenever I have to , to fulfill my obligation

Masks are even more annoying when you know how utterly useless they are. And even harmful, when used by the dunderheads...

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

Being able to work or being able to travel, like anyone else is not "accommodation".   It is a right!

The way a business "accommodates" a guy with a turban, a black guy, a middle east woman with her face covered, a crippled person, a blind one who has a service dog with him,  or face discrimination charges - THIS IS HOW they will be accommodating unvaccinated people.  There is no other way around.

Treating people like biohazards puts the fix in for all sorts of totalitarian control: population control through hindrance of sexual contact, identification for location checks and corralling, surveillance of compliance/opposition, reduction of auto and building use, reduction of assembly volumes (which might oppose governments), weakening of social ties, increase of centralized top-down authority.

There will always be plenty of justifications given for restrictions: new variants, too many unvaccinated (or late to get their boosters), greenhouse gas emissions, overpopulation, opposition to the authorities (security threats).   Restrictions are a greater threat to the health, wellbeing, and freedom of citizens than Covid 19, which has strong resistance because almost all the vulnerable are vaccinated and treatments have improved.

Restrictions will only be lifted if the majority oppose them. It means no longer vilifying those who question continued draconian public health measures and leaders taking back power from the public health authorities.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

The fact YOU think that, doesn't mean you are correct.

Rights are encoded in law.  Can you quote me something that says you have the right to decide the health conditions wherein you will conduct business for your employer ?

This isn't really an 'opinion' thing.

[Zeitgeist]

We’re very much in the realm of labour strife as companies and governments impose mandatory PPE and Covid measures indefinitely.  Unions needs to start fighting these measures as companies seek to protect themselves from liability through draconian workplace restrictions.  

[Boges]

21 hours ago, cougar said:

Being able to work or being able to travel, like anyone else is not "accommodation".   It is a right!

No it isn't. 

There are plenty of restrictions on travel and work. 

Quote

The way a business "accommodates" a guy with a turban, a black guy, a middle east woman with her face covered, a crippled person, a blind one who has a service dog with him,  or face discrimination charges - THIS IS HOW they will be accommodating unvaccinated people.  There is no other way around.

Perhaps for workers. Depending on the type of work you do.

But not for patrons. If "No Shoes, Not Shirt, No Service" is Legal, so is "No Vaccination, Not Service".  

My work has mandated Masks and Social Distancing. How is mandating vaccines all that different? 

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

No it isn't. 

There are plenty of restrictions on travel and work. 

Perhaps for workers. Depending on the type of work you do.

But not for patrons. If "No Shoes, Not Shirt, No Service" is Legal, so is "No Vaccination, Not Service".  

My work has mandated Masks and Social Distancing. How is mandating vaccines all that different? 

Not really.  Because your medical information is supposed to be private. Wearing shoes or a shirt has nothing to do with privacy.  Nice try though.