It Begins. . . Quebec and NYC to implement Vaccine Passports.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Accountability Now said:

Like I said, I really appreciate Ontario's initiative to show hard numbers based on vaccination status. Rather than having some anecdotal story, we can actually see hard numbers. 

And, any decision on mandating vaccines will be based on those numbers. One would hope. 

[Accountability Now]

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

More infection, the more change of serious illness and death. 

But the rate doesn't change as you are claiming. 

 

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

Old people aren't locked away much anymore. . . Because they're vaccinated. 

I call serious BS on that.  You think that the elderly are back to normal? In my opinion....not even close. By just my opinion.

[Boges]

Just now, Accountability Now said:

I call serious BS on that.  You think that the elderly are back to normal? In my opinion....not even close. By just my opinion.

Now we're being anecdotal.

Not back to normal but certainly not locked away not seeing family like we saw last winter. 

[Accountability Now]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

I don't see anywhere that they say younger people "shouldn't" get vaccinated. Perhaps cite that part. 

I only see it mention that older people with compromised immune systems should be prioritized when supply is an issue. It's not an issue in Canada. 

My comment was the WHO says they don't NEED the vaccine. You asking to show the WHO saying they "shouldn't" get vaccinated is moving the goal posts of the argument. They say in this article:

Quote

More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

Again, the risk to reward on this one is not worth it. 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

My comment was the WHO says they don't NEED the vaccine. You asking to show the WHO saying they "shouldn't" get vaccinated is moving the goal posts of the argument. They say in this article:

Again, the risk to reward on this one is not worth it. 

That's for children under 12. Who aren't currently eligible. 

Quote

WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

Speaks nothing about healthy older adults. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Boges

[Accountability Now]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Now we're being anecdotal.

Yup....that's why I clearly stated it was opinion. Of course when a study is released on the lockdown habits of the elderly then you will be the first to know! Until then I think its not far off to believe that the elderly are still living very conservative lives compared to younger folk. 

[Accountability Now]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's for children under 12. Who aren't currently eligible. 

No...their reference is for 18 and under. They go on to say 12 and above CAN get it if:

Quote

Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination.

Again....its not needed for young people....only those with comorbidities or as they put it HIGH RISK. 

 

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Speaks nothing about healthy older adults. 

My reference to the WHO was young people (aka children).  Never intended that cite to prove their intention on healthy adults and I wouldn't expect them to say it. 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Again....its not needed for young people....only those with comorbidities or as they put it HIGH RISK. 

But also "suitable". So why not? 

There are a myriad of vaccines children are already mandated to have. 

[Accountability Now]

14 minutes ago, Boges said:

But also "suitable". So why not? 

You can deny it if you want but there are "x" number of vaccine injuries that have occurred already in 12+. I am not saying its substantial but that 'x' amount exists. So why take on 'x' unless the benefit for taking the vaccine is not there. That is what the WHO is saying. Its suitable if needed but for the vast majority its not needed. 

17 minutes ago, Boges said:

There are a myriad of vaccines children are already mandated to have. 

Vaccines against diseases that have a MUCH higher risk to children. Also vaccines that have actually passed FDA approval.  The reality is there are more deaths from the season flu than COVID for children. Were you out jamming needles in every kid for the flu?

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

You can deny it if you want but there are "x" number of vaccine injuries that have occurred already in 12+. I am not saying its substantial but that 'x' amount exists. So why take on 'x' unless the benefit for taking the vaccine is not there. That is what the WHO is saying. Its suitable if needed but for the vast majority its not needed. 

Even though breakthrough infections happen, the vaccine does reduce the chance of it. 

And the randomness of COVID means that you really don't know if being healthy is enough. AND people don't know if they have a co-morbidity. 

We're quibbling here. Vaccinating children isn't really the priority. But in the US, it's going up. 

 

[Accountability Now]

12 minutes ago, Boges said:

Even though breakthrough infections happen, the vaccine does reduce the chance of it. 

That was true with the original strains and variants but not with Delta. People who are vaccinated have the same viral load in their body as unvaccinated and have the ability to spread it. This is the reason the CDC reimplemented their mask policy for vaccinated people. Also....I again chose to follow England who has already been dealing with this for months and has the data:

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/england-says-delta-infections-produce-similar-virus-levels-regardless-vaccine-2021-08-06/

Quote

There are early signs that people who have been vaccinated against COVID-19 may be able to transmit the Delta variant of the virus as easily as those who have not, scientists at Public Health England (PHE) said on Friday.

 

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

That was true with the original strains and variants but not with Delta. People who are vaccinated have the same viral load in their body as unvaccinated and have the ability to spread it. This is the reason the CDC reimplemented their mask policy for vaccinated people. Also....I again chose to follow England who has already been dealing with this for months and has the data:

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/england-says-delta-infections-produce-similar-virus-levels-regardless-vaccine-2021-08-06/

 

It's quite creative how you easily accept that Delta is way more transmissible but reject that it could cause more severe illness or death.

From the CDC: 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

Quote

Some data suggest the Delta variant might cause more severe illness than previous strains in unvaccinated persons. In two different studies from Canada and Scotland, patients infected with the Delta variant were more likely to be hospitalized than patients infected with Alpha or the original virus strains.

 

Quote

Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to be infectious for a shorter period: Previous variants typically produced less virus in the body of infected fully vaccinated people (breakthrough infections) than in unvaccinated people. In contrast, the Delta variant seems to produce the same high amount of virus in both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like other variants, the amount of virus produced by Delta breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated people also goes down faster than infections in unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people are likely infectious for less time than unvaccinated people.

The vaccine is still a net benefit in reducing transmission. So are masks BTW. 

[taxme]

On 8/10/2021 at 3:00 PM, OftenWrong said:

Will be another interesting experiment to watch, Quebec with their passport vs Ontario without. 

You wonder how stupid people are to put up with this, and not challenge it. Dont forget the stupid a’s had their curfew, and a long long quarantine.

Who woulda thought those Frenchmen are actually a buncha limped dicked englishmen?

I lived among them one time. They are not the brightest bulbs in the bunch. Just throw them a party with plenty of beer and you got them by the you know whats. It's the french men like comrade Fidel Trudeau that has English Canada in a bloody awful debt mess. Gawd, when will they ever leave Canada? I can't take those buffoons anymore. ?

[Shady]

This is what the media constitutes a healthy person.

 

[Shady]

Obesity is such a problem with covid because covid causes inflammation.  And obese people are already under a constant state of inflammation.

[Accountability Now]

51 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's quite creative how you easily accept that Delta is way more transmissible but reject that it could cause more severe illness or death.

I think you are misconstruing what severe illness or death means. If I (as an individual) were to have caught Covid origininal or Alpha, I would not get any sicker or have any more chance of dying than if I caught Delta. The virus will not affect me any more than the previous strains.  If everyone caught COVID at once then you should end up with X amount of deaths. If you have it spread faster or slower than it will change how quickly we get to that point but it won't increase the value of X unless its a stronger virus (which its not proven to be thus far).

59 minutes ago, Boges said:

From the CDC: 

Sorry...I'm going with PHE on this one. They've been dealing with Delta for months now and don't have nearly the political BS to deal with. It seems fairly obvious to me that the CDC and the White House will do anything from having any news punch holes in their vaccine story. 

[Accountability Now]

5 minutes ago, Shady said:

Obesity is such a problem with covid because covid causes inflammation.  And obese people are already under a constant state of inflammation.

That is just like most posts I see of unvaccinated people dying. They are either obese or have other conditions. Take Travis Campbell from Virginia for example. He made big news by sending his ICU video out to the world. The man is clearly overweight and has rheumatoid arthritis. Very few examples of people without comorbidities that die from covid. Offset of course by those who die from the vaccine. 

[Shady]

19 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

I think you are misconstruing what severe illness or death means. If I (as an individual) were to have caught Covid origininal or Alpha, I would not get any sicker or have any more chance of dying than if I caught Delta. The virus will not affect me any more than the previous strains.  If everyone caught COVID at once then you should end up with X amount of deaths. If you have it spread faster or slower than it will change how quickly we get to that point but it won't increase the value of X unless its a stronger virus (which its not proven to be thus far).

Sorry...I'm going with PHE on this one. They've been dealing with Delta for months now and don't have nearly the political BS to deal with. It seems fairly obvious to me that the CDC and the White House will do anything from having any news punch holes in their vaccine story. 

He’s talking out of his ass again.  There’s no scientific data that suggests delta is more severe.  It’s more contagious, but there’s actually data that supports delta being less severe.  His panic porn is getting so ridiculous now.  He’s even more fanatical and concerned now with vaccines than he was a year ago when there was no vaccine.  

[Boges]

16 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

Sorry...I'm going with PHE on this one. They've been dealing with Delta for months now and don't have nearly the political BS to deal with. It seems fairly obvious to me that the CDC and the White House will do anything from having any news punch holes in their vaccine story. 

And a higher vaccination rate nationally. 

[Boges]

16 hours ago, Shady said:

He’s talking out of his ass again.  There’s no scientific data that suggests delta is more severe.  It’s more contagious, but there’s actually data that supports delta being less severe.  His panic porn is getting so ridiculous now.  He’s even more fanatical and concerned now with vaccines than he was a year ago when there was no vaccine.  

Did I not just cite the CDC that said there are studies that say it is more severe? 

[Boges]

16 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

That is just like most posts I see of unvaccinated people dying. They are either obese or have other conditions. Take Travis Campbell from Virginia for example. He made big news by sending his ICU video out to the world. The man is clearly overweight and has rheumatoid arthritis. Very few examples of people without comorbidities that die from covid. Offset of course by those who die from the vaccine. 

Obesity is rampant in the US. 

Should the obese be forced to get vaccinated? 

[dialamah]

16 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

That is just like most posts I see of unvaccinated people dying. They are either obese or have other conditions. Take Travis Campbell from Virginia for example. He made big news by sending his ICU video out to the world. The man is clearly overweight and has rheumatoid arthritis. Very few examples of people without comorbidities that die from covid. Offset of course by those who die from the vaccine. 

Obesity isn't the only comorbidity and sometimes people don't even know if they're susceptible to dying from Covid.  And sometimes it kills people with no health issues.

It's kinda like being hit by lightning - probably won't happen to you no matter how big the storm, but you still do things that'll lessen that small chance.  Getting vaccinated is something people can do to virtually eliminate the risk of dying from Covid. 

[Shady]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

And sometimes it kills people with no health issues.

People with no health issues generally have a better chance of dying in a car accident.

[Boges]

It's good that Ontario is publishing these vaccination stats. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-510-new-covid-19-cases-4-new-deaths-1.5545809

Quote

 

Health Minister Christine Elliott says that of the 111 people with COVID-19 in hospital intensive care units today, 108 are not fully vaccinated or have unknown vaccine status.

She said that of the 510 cases reported Friday, 368 involve unvaccinated people and 57 involve partially vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated infections represent 72 per cent of Friday’s total, despite being no more than 29 per cent of Ontario’s population.

 

Unvaccinated people represent less than 1/3 of the Ontario population yet they represent well north of 2/3 of the cases. 

Of the people in ICUs all but 3 are either unvaccinated or have an unknown vaccine status. 

That's pretty solid evidence the vaccine works. 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Boges

[Shady]

The reports of covid “ waves” are kind of ridiculous now.  There’s no such things as waves.  The virus will begin to spread more anytime severe restrictions are lifted.  It’s stupid to call them waves.

Regardless, we had better start adapting to living with covid for the foreseeable future.  Society cannot continue to shut down over and over again every time infections rise.  It’s unsustainable.