It Begins. . . Quebec and NYC to implement Vaccine Passports.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

No one is advocating for mandatory vaccination. Though some private companies certainly are, as is their right. 

You pretending to be the intelligent one in this debate is textbook Dunning-Kruger. 

The carrot is not doing lockdowns again. Most intelligent people get that. Then there's you. . . 

I guess you dont read news much. But you are opinionated.

I guess you didnt hear about groups calling for mandatory vaccination of health care workers. Go look it up.

Always ready to keep you informed, Boges. You think you know this stuff and I dont. So far you know jack- squat, fella.

Let me know if you people have more questions.

[Boges]

17 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I guess you dont read news much. But you are opinionated.

I guess you didnt hear about groups calling for mandatory vaccination of health care workers. Go look it up.

Always ready to keep you informed, Boges. You think you know this stuff and I dont. So far you know jack- squat, fella.

Let me know if you people have more questions.

Why shouldn't Healthcare workers get vaccinated? They're the ones in close contact with the most vulnerable people. 

And if you don't get vaccinated, you'll have to regularly get tested. We're still in a Pandemic, if you haven't noticed. 

Stop looking for fascism everywhere. 

[Accountability Now]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

What's interesting is that people will risk getting the disease, because they're "healthy". But they're terrified of a vaccine that millions upon millions of people have taken without any, statistically relevant, serious side effects. 

Personally, the last time I was in a hospital bed was three days after taking the flu shot. Never took the shot again and have never been that sick again.  Doctor said I had an adverse reaction so my personal situation is more unique than others I guess. 

I do my best to look at rational arguments and steer clear of anecdotal evidence or outright crazy sites. However, I do think its weird that the guy who invented the mRNA vaccine as well as the Nobel Prize winning doctor who discovered HIV as well as a former head researcher for Pfizer are all against against the vaccine.  Of course you have many more credible, well educated doctors who when they speak out automatically get called quacks. The amount of censorship on this topic is appalling and definitely makes me think there are agendas at play which in turn adds to the hesitancy. 

[myata]

I'll post it here as additional factual information for citizens who are interested in analyzing and understanding, not only marching to the muzak. Same time, August 2020, new daily case counts in Ontario: min 33 to max 115, weekly average 89.

[Boges]

16 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

I do my best to look at rational arguments and steer clear of anecdotal evidence or outright crazy sites. However, I do think its weird that the guy who invented the mRNA vaccine as well as the Nobel Prize winning doctor who discovered HIV as well as a former head researcher for Pfizer are all against against the vaccine.  Of course you have many more credible, well educated doctors who when they speak out automatically get called quacks. The amount of censorship on this topic is appalling and definitely makes me think there are agendas at play which in turn adds to the hesitancy. 

Because a lot of that is misinformation. 

The biggest evidence that the vaccines are safe is that 80% of Canadians have taken it and the side effects have been documented. 

If people were dying in droves, even the most authoritarian government couldn't hide that. 

[Accountability Now]

46 minutes ago, Boges said:

Because a lot of that is misinformation. 

What is? You're saying that Robert Malone is not an expert on mRNA vaccines? Or that Luc Montagnier did not discover HIV? Are you also saying that other well educated doctors in the field of cardio pulmonary specialties aren't educated enough to have an opinion on this?  That to me is the scariest part of this whole thing...the censorship. Go on Facebook right now and search Delta Variant or COVID. All you get is CDC literature. Are we living in North Korea? I would love to see true, honest debates on this but that is not happening because one side has zero willingness to engage in conversation. Is that science? Not a chance. 

 

53 minutes ago, Boges said:

The biggest evidence that the vaccines are safe is that 80% of Canadians have taken it and the side effects have been documented. 

If people were dying in droves, even the most authoritarian government couldn't hide that. 

The common argument among skeptics is not that it will kill you now but what long term effect this has on you. There have been zero long term studies done on these vaccines and no one can say there will not be issues down the road with something that is a) new to humans on large scale use b) is still not fully approved. Don't get me wrong, in light of these points I am still an advocate of the vaccine for the elderly and the immunocompromised as its worth the risk however I don't think billions of young heathy people should be injecting this without any consideration of what their doing. 

I also thought you said it wasn't all about deaths? How would you like your healthy 12 year old to get injured from a vaccine to protect him from something that has next to zero chance of killing him? 

But don't worry...if something did happen from the vaccine, we could just sue Pfizer....oh wait....right....

[Boges]

9 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

The common argument among skeptics is not that it will kill you now but what long term effect this has on you. There have been zero long term studies done on these vaccines and no one can say there will not be issues down the road with something that is a) new to humans on large scale use b) is still not fully approved. Don't get me wrong, in light of these points I am still an advocate of the vaccine for the elderly and the immunocompromised as its worth the risk however I don't think billions of young heathy people should be injecting this without any consideration of what their doing. 

I also thought you said it wasn't all about deaths? How would you like your healthy 12 year old to get injured from a vaccine to protect him from something that has next to zero chance of killing him? 

But don't worry...if something did happen from the vaccine, we could just sue Pfizer....oh wait....right....

Young people are getting sick from this Delta variant. That's the dangerous new narrative coming from the Anti-Vax crowd. That young people don't need it. Herd immunity means everyone should get it. 

As for long-term side effects. The science isn't behind the fear as side-effects for vaccines have historically never shown up after 2 months. 

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

So any fear of us all getting cancer in 10 years is just anti-vax fear mongering. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Boges

[Shady]

24 minutes ago, Boges said:

Young people are getting sick from this Delta variant. That's the dangerous new narrative coming from the Anti-Vax crowd. That young people don't need it. Herd immunity means everyone should get it. 

As for long-term side effects. The science isn't behind the fear as side-effects for vaccines have historically never shown up after 2 months. 

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

So any fear of us all getting cancer in 10 years is just anti-vax fear mongering. 

It’s not new.  Young people got sick from covid last year too.  You’re still ignoring the actual science regarding the risk of serious illness and death of young people, which is almost zero.  They have a better chance of being hit by a car on the way to school.  Your panic porn is becoming obscene.

[Boges]

Just now, Shady said:

It’s not new.  Young people got sick from covid last year too.  You’re still ignoring the actual science regarding the risk of serious illness and death of young people, which is almost zero.  They have a better chance of being hit by a car on the way to school.  Your panic porn is becoming obscene.

Facts

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/01/992148299/covid-doesnt-discriminate-by-age-serious-cases-on-the-rise-in-younger-adults

And this if from May. Much worse now. 

Cite the Car accident stat? And in what age group? 

[Accountability Now]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

So just let COVID-19 run free? 

You really haven't been listening. Vaccines for people who need it not forced on those who don't. 

 

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

Young people are getting sick from this Delta variant.

You have yet to show numbers that substantiate your claim. Anecdotal stories staying there are 'more' young people being affected mean what exactly. The numbers went from 2 to 3? 

Here are the deaths by age in Canada:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228632/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-age/

And here are the hospitalizations by age in Canada:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228610/number-covid-cases-hospitalized-canada-by-age/

Currently the rate of hospitalization for 0-19 is 0.5%. You're saying its going up to what? 0.6%. As I showed earlier, in England a large portion of hospitalized kids were obese. So if your child is in that category then get them the vaccine. If they have a comorbidity then get them the vaccine. Again, vaccination status is only one factor in what will get someone hospitalized and at this point I don't believe its the main factor. 

Speaking of hospitalizations and death, here are some interesting reads if you have time:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/26/exclusive-half-covid-hospitalisations-tested-positive-admission/

https://abc7news.com/covid-death-count-alameda-county-deaths-19-cases/10755419/

Hard to make objective decisions when you don't have the right numbers. 

 

27 minutes ago, Boges said:

Herd immunity means everyone should get it. 

Sorry bud. Even the developer of Astra Zeneca is now saying herd immunity is impossible. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8

 

Quote

Speaking at a UK parliamentary meeting on Tuesday, Sir Andrew Pollard, a professor of pediatric infection and immunity at the University of Oxford, said that achieving herd immunity is "not a possibility" now that the Delta variant is circulating. 

Like I said, we have been chasing our tails on this from the start. Vaccines should have been given to the ones that need it. After that we will just have to deal with this as a long term reality. 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Like I said, we have been chasing our tails on this from the start. Vaccines should have been given to the ones that need it. After that we will just have to deal with this as a long term reality. 

What benchmark gets set for that? Much safer if everyone gets an overwhelmingly safe vaccine. 

All the stats provided don't show the new threat variants provide. You're diluting your stats by piling on original strain figures. 

Show figures starting March 2021 if you want to declare that anyone under 40 doesn't need the vaccine. Because that's just insanity. 

[Accountability Now]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Facts

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/01/992148299/covid-doesnt-discriminate-by-age-serious-cases-on-the-rise-in-younger-adults

And this if from May. Much worse now. 

Cite the Car accident stat? And in what age group? 

Again, your article is quoting relative comparisons, not objective numbers. One thing that is not being talked about is the fact that seniors are still being locked down. Maybe not to the level they were at the start but many of them are still living very cautious lives unlike the 20 year olds who were like animals being released from a cage when the lockdowns ended. 

So instead of measuring ratios of 20 year old to 70 year olds hospitalized, one should measure the objective number. 

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Again, your article is quoting relative comparisons, not objective numbers. One thing that is not being talked about is the fact that seniors are still being locked down. Maybe not to the level they were at the start but many of them are still living very cautious lives unlike the 20 year olds who were like animals being released from a cage when the lockdowns ended. 

So instead of measuring ratios of 20 year old to 70 year olds hospitalized, one should measure the objective number. 

Those over 70 are also largely vaccinated. 

Which is why clinging to stats that include the first 9 months of the pandemic is completely irrelevant. 

Especially when you're peddling nonsense that young people don't need the vaccine. 

[Accountability Now]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

What benchmark gets set for that? Much safer if everyone gets an overwhelmingly safe vaccine. 

All the stats provided don't show the new threat variants provide. You're diluting your stats by piling on original strain figures. 

Show figures starting March 2021 if you want to declare that anyone under 40 doesn't need the vaccine. Because that's just insanity. 

Canada hasn't been hit strongly by Delta yet so there is no numbers. This is why I use regions like the UK to justify my reasoning. From the UK government:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals

Quote

 

Hospital admission rates continue to be higher among older age groups but were much lower in the week ending 1 August 2021 than the mid-January peak (week ending 17 January 2021). Among those aged 45 to 54 years, admissions were one quarter of their mid-January peak while among those aged 85 years and over they were almost 13 times lower.

However, admission rates in younger age groups were similar to those seen in mid-January.

 

Its great to see the older groups coming down but according to this data, the younger groups are staying the same. 

[Accountability Now]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Especially when you're peddling nonsense that young people don't need the vaccine. 

Young people with no comorbidities don't need the vaccine. Even the World Heath Organization agrees with me. 

[Boges]

Just now, Accountability Now said:

Canada hasn't been hit strongly by Delta yet so there is no numbers. This is why I use regions like the UK to justify my reasoning. 

No but we saw lots of younger people hit by the Alpha Variant that caused the 3rd wave. 

I posted this yesterday. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/pandemic-s-third-wave-hits-people-in-their-20s-30s-with-more-illness-and-blame-1.5370882?cache=%2F7.609312

The hope is that the vaccination rate in Canada will blunt the Delta effects seen in parts of the US who are seeing Hospitalization rates as bad as they've ever been. 

And I hope that happens, but if it doesn't Vaccine Passport FTW. And private business will be on board too, not just "fascist" governments. 

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Young people with no comorbidities don't need the vaccine. Even the World Heath Organization agrees with me. 

Cite

[Accountability Now]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Those over 70 are also largely vaccinated. 

Which is why clinging to stats that include the first 9 months of the pandemic is completely irrelevant. 

Yet you have no problem with the stat that all vaxx pushers use claiming 99% of covid deaths are in the unvaccinated? Even though the majority of deaths even occurred before vaccine roll outs. 

Of course in England, since February there has been 742 deaths from Delta. 253 with unvaccinated people. 

[Boges]

Just now, Accountability Now said:

Yet you have no problem with the stat that all vaxx pushers use claiming 99% of covid deaths are in the unvaccinated? Even though the majority of deaths even occurred before vaccine roll outs. 

Of course in England, since February there has been 742 deaths from Delta. 253 with unvaccinated people. 

Again, due to a good vaccination rate and much more vaccinated people that not. Hopefully we'll see the same in Canada. 

Why not look to the US and see how an under vaccinated population deals with the Delta Variant. 

[Boges]

BTW what's an objective co-morbidity for someone under 60? 

A BMI above 30? 

[Accountability Now]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

No but we saw lots of younger people hit by the Alpha Variant that caused the 3rd wave. 

I posted this yesterday. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/pandemic-s-third-wave-hits-people-in-their-20s-30s-with-more-illness-and-blame-1.5370882?cache=%2F7.609312

Again your article only discusses ratios and percentages. 

Quote

Provincial data in Quebec shows a growing ratio of hospitalizations among patients aged 59 years and younger, rising to 34.5 per cent in March, up from 28.9 per cent in February and 25.5 per cent in January.

The elderly are locked away at this point and the young were coming off lockdowns. Did you ever stop to think that the number of young people might be increasing because they have the lions share of the cases? 19 and under are almost 20% of the cases so far....all the cases from 50 and up add up to 30%. More people infected means more chance of hospitalization. 

[Accountability Now]

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

Cite

Ok...but you won't like it

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice

 

Quote

 

WHO SHOULD GET VACCINATED

The COVID-19 vaccines are safe for most people 18 years and older, including those with pre-existing conditions of any kind, including auto-immune disorders. These conditions include: hypertension, diabetes, asthma, pulmonary, liver and kidney disease, as well as chronic infections that are stable and controlled.

If supplies are limited in your area, discuss your situation with your care provider if you:

• Have a compromised immune system
• Are pregnant (if you are already breastfeeding, you should continue after vaccination)
• Have a history of severe allergies, particularly to a vaccine (or any of the ingredients in the vaccine)
• Are severely frail

 

Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.   

 

More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

 

 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Again your article only discusses ratios and percentages. 

The elderly are locked away at this point and the young were coming off lockdowns. Did you ever stop to think that the number of young people might be increasing because they have the lions share of the cases? 19 and under are almost 20% of the cases so far....all the cases from 50 and up add up to 30%. More people infected means more chance of hospitalization. 

That's the point.

More infection, the more change of serious illness and death. 

Old people aren't locked away much anymore. . . Because they're vaccinated. 

[Accountability Now]

14 minutes ago, Boges said:

Why not look to the US and see how an under vaccinated population deals with the Delta Variant. 

The political landscape in the US is way worse than the UK. Everything has agendas and its hard to find true data compared to 'stories' from the ER. Israel, the UK, Singapore have all had Delta and we are able to use objective numbers from there without a Trump versus Biden approach. 

Like I said, I really appreciate Ontario's initiative to show hard numbers based on vaccination status. Rather than having some anecdotal story, we can actually see hard numbers. 

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Ok...but you won't like it

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice

I don't see anywhere that they say younger people "shouldn't" get vaccinated. Perhaps cite that part. 

I only see it mention that older people with compromised immune systems should be prioritized when supply is an issue. It's not an issue in Canada. 

BTW this didn't work in Ontario as older people could isolate and stay home. The 3rd wave was driven by younger essential workers in urban areas who had no access to the vaccine.