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Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.


CITIZEN_2015

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1 minute ago, cougar said:

I am skeptical about the efficiency of the vaccine thus I think I am only stuck with the risks.   Then I must be in much better shape than Trump, Silvie Trudeau, or Boris Johnson.  If they can pull it off, I must be able to do that too.  Then other members in my family who are in fact at risk with compromised immune systems and who received personal vaccination invitations from the provincial health authority categorically refused to do it.  With all this in mind I see no point.  Now with  pressure on us from our government building, I am inclined to resist.  But, I voted Liberal - for the guys who want to vaccinate 100% of people not Conservative, for those who were going to be making exceptions.

Only reason  - I think Liberals are less harmful to our environment and wildlife.

Do you have secret information that the rest of us don’t have about the efficacy (I think this is the word you meant) of the vaccine?

I’d like to know this secret information too.  All I can find is information from experts.

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Just now, TreeBeard said:

Do you have secret information that the rest of us don’t have about the efficacy (I think this is the word you meant) of the vaccine?

I’d like to know this secret information too.  All I can find is information from experts.

I don't.   I don't go by what the experts will tell me in this case.  Just my gut feeling.  

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Just now, TreeBeard said:

That’s a really interesting way to make informed decisions.

Didn't Bush go into Iraq to find Osama and the weapons of mass destruction based on expert opinions and information?  My gut feeling then told me, neither of those two were there.  It has been happening with great regularity ever since, no matter the government.

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Just now, cougar said:

Didn't Bush go into Iraq to find Osama and the weapons of mass destruction based on expert opinions and information? 

I suspect that no, he didn’t.  Based on the evidence, it seems he made the decisions despite evidence to the contrary.

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My gut feeling then told me, neither of those two were there.  It has been happening with great regularity ever since, no matter the government.

That “feeling” didn’t really have much consequences.  It sounds like feelings are just lucky guesses.  Or unlucky.

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2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I suspect that no, he didn’t.  Based on the evidence, it seems he made the decisions despite evidence to the contrary.

That “feeling” didn’t really have much consequences.  It sounds like feelings are just lucky guesses.  Or unlucky.

Does it matter what he knew?  We were all fed the narrative the weapons were there and Osama Bin Laden is likely there too.  Just like in our present day and age. You have experts who will tell you people cannot be vaccinated during an ongoing pandemic.  Others who will tell you the vaccine is not that efficient against the Delta strain.

When the government told you that inflation is 3.5% or whatever , did you believe them?  When they told you the new pipeline is good for you, did you believe them?  When they  told you the new carbon tax will help fight climate change did you believe them?   When they put the First Nation kids in residential schools to make them civilized citizens did you believe them? How far down this line do I need to go?

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Just now, cougar said:

Does it matter what he knew?  We were all fed the narrative the weapons were there and Osama Bin Laden is likely there too.  Just like in our present day and age. You have experts who will tell you people cannot be vaccinated during an ongoing pandemic.  Others who will tell you the vaccine is not that efficient against the Delta strain.

 

I don’t remember independent analysis, just politics. 

Do you think politics and science are the same thing?

 

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When the government told you that inflation is 3.5% or whatever , did you believe them?  When they told you the new pipeline is good for you, did you believe them?  When they  told you the new carbon tax will help fight climate change did you believe them?   When they put the First Nation kids in residential schools to make them civilized citizens did you believe them? How far down this line do I need to go?

Politics and science…. Two very different things.  Some things are opinion based on political leanings.  Other things are science and expert opinion, which is very different than merely opinion.

Do you think feelings are a reliable way to get to truth?

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9 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Politics and science…. .

OK.  What about all those breast augmentations that eventually were linked to cancer?  Were women not told those were safe?    You think if they were told what was going to happen any of them were going to get the implants?   The history must be full of similar cases and drug fiascos.

What about the safe PCB that was sprayed all over the place?     What about asbestos?  Nice construction material.

The fact is, your "experts" know little to nothing.   You rely on them.  I will rely on myself.

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13 minutes ago, Aristides said:

The younger Bush going into Iraq was just unfinished family business. It didn't have anything to do with evidence.

Thanks.  The families of the young Americans who died there will be thrilled to know that.  You think those who did the dying knew why they were dying?   Then don't be surprised some people don't want to sacrifice for the "greater good".

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58 minutes ago, cougar said:

Thanks.  The families of the young Americans who died there will be thrilled to know that.  You think those who did the dying knew why they were dying?   Then don't be surprised some people don't want to sacrifice for the "greater good".

Sometimes the truth hurts. What would you be doing to sacrifice for the greater good by doing something that could save your own life and spare your loved ones the grief of losing you? Equating what you are doing with going to war is laughable.

Edited by Aristides
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2 hours ago, cougar said:

OK.  What about all those breast augmentations that eventually were linked to cancer?  Were women not told those were safe?    You think if they were told what was going to happen any of them were going to get the implants?   The history must be full of similar cases and drug fiascos.

What about the safe PCB that was sprayed all over the place?     What about asbestos?  Nice construction material.

The fact is, your "experts" know little to nothing.   You rely on them.  I will rely on myself.

What determined that those things were unsafe?  More and better science?  Or gut feelings?

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1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Sometimes the truth hurts. What would you be doing to sacrifice for the greater good by doing something that could save your own life and spare your loved ones the grief of losing you? Equating what you are doing with going to war is laughable.

Did I ever say vaccination and going to war are the same thing? What I am trying to say is that people do things usually from their own perspective and for the benefit of their own families and themselves BEFORE anyone else.  And this is the normal way.   Don't try to sell me your selflessness in a capitalist world of lies and exploitation.  I ain't doing nothing for you if it does not suit me.

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12 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

What determined that those things were unsafe?  More and better science?  Or gut feelings?

More and better science and more time, of course !

So if one had the right gut feeling before the better science came around, they would have been saved.

Right now you are the experimental mouse.

 

000_COVIDMOUSE.jpe

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"I am part of the problem"

"I have embraced selfishness as an ethic"

"I can no longer expect anyone to do anything for me"

It's not about achieving the end result, it's about how.

Everyone wants the same end result- no virus no deaths (by Covid...) and no restrictions. Who in their right mind wants otherwise?

Main issue for me is, mandating carte-blanche by government. Doug Ford is my family doctor now. He knows my personal illnesses and susceptibility. He sees me when I'm sleeping, knows when I'm awake.

 

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The good news is that in Ontario though remained in stage 3 reopening since end of June, the number of new cases has stabilized between 600 to 900 daily. This is by far better than worst scenario projections of 9000 per day by October. I think the reason for relatively good number is relatively high vaccination rate of over 85% in Ontario as opposed to Alberta's 70% where Covid is causing havoc right now in that province. If we had a vaccination rate of 95% then we would have been likely a Covid-free province by now. 

Ontario is reporting a substantial week-over-week drop in the number of new COVID-19 infections today with fewer than 700 new cases confirmed over the past 24 hours.

Provincial health officials logged 677 new cases today, up from 463 on Wednesday but down significantly from 864 last Thursday.

The seven-day rolling average of new infections dropped to 665 today, down from 732 one week agWith 37,630 tests processed over the past 24 hours, the provincewide positivity rate is now 1.9 per cent, down from 2.4 per cent last week.

Of the cases confirmed today, 529 cases, or 78 per cent, are in individuals who are not fully vaccinated or have an unknown vaccination status and 148, or 22 per cent, are in those who are fully immunized.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ont-reports-677-new-covid-19-cases-7-more-virus-related-deaths-1.5597321

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

1. It's not about achieving the end result, it's about how.

2. Everyone wants the same end result- no virus no deaths (by Covid...) and no restrictions. Who in their right mind wants otherwise?

3. Main issue for me is, mandating carte-blanche by government. Doug Ford is my family doctor now. He knows my personal illnesses and susceptibility. He sees me when I'm sleeping, knows when I'm awake.

 

1. Bullshit.  Look at her comment.
2. Therefore... what ?  I don't have to do anything and my consumer mentality entitles me to entitlement.  Again, bullshit.
3. Doug Ford always had the power to kill you.  
 

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59 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Doug Ford always had the power to kill you. 

No kidding, but does it mean we should give him more power to decide? Does it mean we are not allowed to speak out against it, as another power grab by incompetent bureaucracy?

It just depends on whether you trust and have faith in government. My view is, they need to be hemmed in to the places where they are useful. Kept away from places where they're not. It's much too late for that now, of course. And I don't mean just since Covid.

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17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

https://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

When you hear a stat like "600,000 Americans died of covid", that's not accurate. It's actually "600,000 Americans died with covid". You could really only say for sure that 6% of those people died from covid.

Yes, sometimes. An inflamed heart is a hallmark of covid vaccinations.

The vast majority of people who have 'fluid in their lungs' live to tell about it. It's not a death sentence unless you're 85 with 2.6 co-morbidities.

I think that Pfizer and Moderna won't stand for any less than 100% certainty. Any grey area is welcomed. 

Your confirmation bias is showing.

When a 13 yr-old dies in their sleep there's a cause.  When an 85 yr-old with co-morbidities dies it is a mixture of things

Now you know. Don't mess this one up again. 

From the AHS website:

Look at the percentage of people in ICU with 3 or more pre-existing conditions. Over 75%.  And we know many of them were elderly. Based on the severity of their pre-existing conditions many of these ones would be in the ICU anyways, with or without covid.  But their deaths are listed as "covid" deaths.  This is how the numbers have been inflated and the "emergency" has been created.

preexisting.JPG

preexisting 2.JPG

preexisting 3.JPG

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5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"I am part of the problem"

"I have embraced selfishness as an ethic"

"I can no longer expect anyone to do anything for me"

This is the society we live in.  That is the ethic - greed.   

Those three members who are applauding you , all lost the argument and had nothing more to add to their non-sensical posts.😉

 

You, Mike, for example, what are you going to do for me and give me, putting me before your family and yourself?   Surely nothing useful or good.

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5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

When people fell over and died, someone brilliant determined those were unsafe. 

Exactly!  Nobody would have even looked for the "better science" if people were not dying.

Once they started dying , the "experts" immediately knew what their "better science" should look like.

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5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"I am part of the problem"

"I have embraced selfishness as an ethic"

"I can no longer expect anyone to do anything for me"

Complete and utter nonsense.  Asking people to give up fundamental rights to make you feel safe is actually the selfish thing to do.  Stop being selfish.  Stop asking people to give up their rights.  Get fully vaccinated and you don’t have to worry about whether somebody else is or isn’t.  The science indicates that you have a one in 5000 chance of getting COVID.  If you do it will be mild.  You have a bette chance of being killed in a car accident.  If you haven’t stopped driving yet then stop asking other people to give up their rights.  It’s disgusting.  Civil society falls apart all over a virus that if you’re not older and sick have almost a zero chance of dying.  We’ve become so bloody soft it’s ridiculous.

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