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Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.


CITIZEN_2015

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

If this is "Leftist" you must be further out on the right than Hitler was.

It means no one is going to tie you down and inject you against your will. But Canadians don't want you around them or their families. 

And you think that excluding people from society isn't forcing them to get immunized?

"Stay in your home til you starve or get the shot. It's a free country." - Argus

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

Apparently you're too ignorant to tell the difference between people wanting a vaccine mandate and people wanting to exclude the retards who won't get vaccinated.

There is no substantive difference. Being excluded from society is also known as living in exile or going to jail.

You could also say “no one has to take the jab, but they would have to go to jail”. How is that a choice.

Some of you people are now calling for this (prison) and it would not surprise me if they would force vaccination upon us. After all, what good is it if you’re a prisoner for vaccine crime, and infect everybody else who’s in jail?

Hell yeah. Some of you people have even come in here wishing that I would get Covid.

The Diarrhea Lama.

 

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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Why not? If the jab made you impervious to infection or spread what are you afraid of?

Oh wait, that's right. The shots aren't actually as effective as they told you they would be, are they?

They're very effective but no vaccine is 100%, especially when a substantial group of people aren't taking it and the virus is running wild through their ranks.

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Covid and it's variants are here to stay. Get off the corporate and state media. They've been lying to you. Find some accurate information and learn how to live with the new reality. 

Crazy people wearing tinfoil hats, you mean? No thanks.

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Talking to these people reminds me so strongly of trying to argue with the 911 truthers. They've buried themselves in simplistic twaddle they got from other excitable people on other web sites and are convinced everyone else is wrong or part of the great  'conspiracy'. Only they are the truly brave, the true open-minded folks who dare to realize that everything is faked. They're in the know! They have the scoop! Everyone else is just sheep!

Special people indeed.

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On 7/31/2021 at 10:53 AM, Zeitgeist said:

There’s simply no good reason for government-imposed restrictions on freedom in Canada to fight Covid-19 anymore.  None.  

This isn't how it works, at least not in Ontario. If x,y,z, abc, yada wave isn't happening it means that it can happen and so the bureaucratic arses need to be covered solidly, and so you'll be stuck with whatever the thing of the day, the mask, a park mask, elbow masks etc regardless of vaccinations, facts, evidence and so on, just so. Unconditional and non accountable authority does that and there's none: conditions; accountability; oversight. Just swallow and get used to it.

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Based on factual record so far, I don't have much confidence in this country's health authorities. Over these 18 months they have proven themselves:

1. Lazy and inept at developing effective preventative measures (SARS, 2002; MERS, 2006 etc)

2. Dangerously careless ("travel from Wuhan"). Every spike in the statistics there's a hallelujah of expert' opinions to toughen and prolong quarantines but where were they in the beginning of this thing to make decisions based on risk and experience rather than words of other clueless bureaucrats (WHO)?

3. Clueless bordering on incompetent in management of the epidemics: multiple public communication failures, obviously meaningless and contradictory policies.

4. Arrogant and overconfident while repeatedly failing to achieve provable results.

Add to that literally total absence of accountability and oversight and it's a dangerous mix. I would want to do as little as possible with this kind of environment.

P.S. On the general background BC and some Eastern provinces stand out as a notch more sensible.

Edited by myata
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3 hours ago, Argus said:

Talking to these people reminds me so strongly of trying to argue with the 911 truthers. They've buried themselves in simplistic twaddle they got from other excitable people on other web sites and are convinced everyone else is wrong or part of the great  'conspiracy'. Only they are the truly brave, the true open-minded folks who dare to realize that everything is faked. They're in the know! They have the scoop! Everyone else is just sheep!

Special people indeed.

And talking to Covid hysterics reminds me of trying to talk sense to Global Warmiacs. They tell you they're about "the science." So  you give them some science. Then 'No. That's not the right science. That contradicts the narrative so that's not science. If it's not narrative affirming science its' not science.' Which makes me think they don't actually know what science is. 

News Flash, Chicken Littles. The government can't control the weather and it won't stop covid. Adapt. Build dykes. Learn about therapeutics. 

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At times in this unfolding story one cannot avoid a feeling of watching some performance in the circus of absurd. Science behind, right (Health minister asks for science behind Alberta decision). So what was the science behind "travel from Wuhan, no problem", again? (after SARS-2002, MERS-2006, etc all imported by travelers).

At a low level of infection (Ontario, around 150 cases earlier this week, or approximately ten cases per million of population) there's no justification for indiscriminate population-wide mandatory measures, it amounts to arbitrary application of authority unjustified by any rational considerations and they should and would be questioned in any democracy responsible and accountable to the citizens). The rate of collisions resulting in injury in 2019 Ontario was approximately 100 cases daily but no one would accept it as justification for extraordinary indiscriminate measures.

What is the science behind masks in parks, that was recommended? Mandatory masks in well spaced indoor areas like grocery stores? We are well into the second year but try to find these answers. "Science" is pulled as bum tissue to satisfy the agenda of the day, but good luck finding factual information substantiating chaotic policies.

It appears that the system is entering the phase of random chaos, where unlikely placebos are stuck here and there to create a perception of activity without much clue as to how to manage the situation effectively by those who are paid generously to do just that, not create shows and hardly convincing ones. To beat it i.e. in the normal sense to do any worse, one would actually need some level of intelligence to figure out the right decision and do contrary to it.

Yes there are meaningful alternatives that do not involve indiscriminate mandatory measures but our problem is that authority that is not accountable to anybody for anything always settles to the same condition: the least work for itself, while relegating all responsibility (and blame for underachievement and failure) elsewhere.

Edited by myata
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18 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Did you even bother to just google: "Case Infected Rate"? I guess not.

Dude, what I wrote was so easy that you should have been able to figure it out yourself, but the fact that you can't understand it yet is bizarre.

1) When people are super sick, they go see a Dr. That's especially true if they're sick enough that they're going to die. Those people become "cases" in the "Case Infected Rate". 

2) When people just get a little bit sick, or they get infected but remain asymptomatic, they generally don't go to see a Dr. Those people don't get included in the "Case Infected Rate" because medical professionals don't know that they were sick, but they had covid too. 

Those 2 things should be really easy for you to understand, right?

Have you never gone to work when you were sick? Have you never been sick enough to take a day off work, but not sick enough to go to the Dr? Did you ever go to the Dr to see if you had the flu when you had no symptoms? Probably not. FYI, everyone who falls into one of those categories is excluded from case infected rate, but obviously they'd be included in a calculation to see whether or not you'd survive if you contracted the virus. 

Did you ever get so sick that you thought you might die, but didn't go see a Dr? I doubt it. 

This isn't something that you have to understand, but it will save you from public humiliation if you just ignore the topic. 

Right, no one in places like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan. Sub Saharan Africa or any other dirt poor or secretive country ever gets sick and dies without a doctor knowing and recording the cause of death. You are just making assumptions and attaching a made up number to them and calling it science.

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Ontario reports highest number of new Covid cases today in sux weeks. The fourth wave is here now thanks to those who haven't taken the vaccine. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-highest-daily-covid-19-case-count-in-nearly-six-weeks-1.5536957

340 new covid cases since yesterday, a jump of 200 in one day and 18 deaths :(. So sad.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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Life is Peachy in DeathSantis Land.

Florida accounts for nearly one out of every four new infections and hospitalizations in the country, according to data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

The spike in admissions means more and more COVID-19 patients require hospitalization. As of July 28, Florida hospitals were treating 8,816 infected patients — more than at any point since the first wave of infections in July 2020.

 

Last winter, over 60 percent of hospital admissions were patients aged 60 and over. Now they make up less than 45 percent of new hospital admissions.

Instead, it is adults in their 20s to 40s who are making up an increasingly large share of admissions in the fourth wave. Last winter, less than 15 percent of admissions were young adults. Now over one-third of the hospitalized are adults under 50.

 

 

No longer is this a pandemic affecting mostly Florida seniors or those with pre-existing conditions. Now it is younger, healthier, unvaccinated adults who are falling ill. New Florida infections and hospitalizations are being driven by adults in their 20s to 40s, state data shows. They account for 53 percent of infections and about 34 percent of hospitalizations.

 

 

Edited by Aristides
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Any possible future lockdowns by any government will be completely and fully ignored. The vaccinated people will be largely protected and sickness and death will be largely among the unvaccinated people. However, this was their choice and they and only them should pay the price for their choice. WE THE MAJORITY WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY MORE LOCKDOWNS OF ANY KIND BY ANY GOVERNMENT AND WILL TOTALLY IGNORE IT.

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1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Right, no one in places like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan. Sub Saharan Africa or any other dirt poor or secretive country ever gets sick and dies without a doctor knowing and recording the cause of death. You are just making assumptions and attaching a made up number to them and calling it science.

You're grasping at straws now and your logic is hopelessly flawed.

If you think about it, it stands to reason that in countries where only 10% of the people go to see a Dr when they're sick enough to die, less than 10% of the people go to see a Dr when they're asymptomatic or not very sick at all. 

 

Another thing, we get enough stats from the nations that are advanced enough to compile stats - we have data from 200 million cases to look at. That's more than enough to go on. My stats were bang on.

 

Here's something else for you to look at:

The vast, vast bulk of covid deaths come from people over 65. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

477,000 were 65 and older. Only 27,000 were under 50, and people under 50 make up way more than half of America's population.  

 

Only 12% of the US population is over 65:

https://www.infoplease.com/us/population/population-65-years-and-over-age-1990-2000-and-2010

So, the vast bulk of covid deaths came from 12% of the population, but if you look even closer, most of those people who died also had co-morbidities. 

Take your 2% CASE MORTALITY RATE, and then factor in your age and relative health to figure out of you're in danger. If you're over 75 and have two co-M's, you're in danger. If you're under 60 with no co-M's you have way more than a 99% chance of survival. WAY MORE. PERIOD. If you cn't understand that from looking at this data then looking at data is a waste of time for you.

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10 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're grasping at straws now and your logic is hopelessly flawed.

If you think about it, it stands to reason that in countries where only 10% of the people go to see a Dr when they're sick enough to die, less than 10% of the people go to see a Dr when they're asymptomatic or not very sick at all. 

 

Another thing, we get enough stats from the nations that are advanced enough to compile stats - we have data from 200 million cases to look at. That's more than enough to go on. My stats were bang on.

 

Here's something else for you to look at:

The vast, vast bulk of covid deaths come from people over 65. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

477,000 were 65 and older. Only 27,000 were under 50, and people under 50 make up way more than half of America's population.  

 

Only 12% of the US population is over 65:

https://www.infoplease.com/us/population/population-65-years-and-over-age-1990-2000-and-2010

So, the vast bulk of covid deaths came from 12% of the population, but if you look even closer, most of those people who died also had co-morbidities. 

Take your 2% CASE MORTALITY RATE, and then factor in your age and relative health to figure out of you're in danger. If you're over 75 and have two co-M's, you're in danger. If you're under 60 with no co-M's you have way more than a 99% chance of survival. WAY MORE. PERIOD. If you cn't understand that from looking at this data then looking at data is a waste of time for you.

You cherry  pick numbers from developed countries that make up 17% of the worlds population and call it science.

As per my last post, over 1/3 of Florida covid hospitalizations are now under 50. There is a lot more to Covid than just death and complete recovery. At this point we don't even know what complete recovery is or whether there is such a thing.

Edited by Aristides
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Just making a simple prediction: once daily cases hit thousand, we will see experts' calling for reinstatement of lockdowns. They will last exactly how long a wave lasts that is two and a half to three months lockdowns or no.

Twenty years (SARS, 2002), no clues other than shut everything down and muzzle everyone up. That's what you call expert management.

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1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Ontario reports highest number of new Covid cases today in sux weeks. The fourth wave is here now thanks to those who haven't taken the vaccine. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-highest-daily-covid-19-case-count-in-nearly-six-weeks-1.5536957

340 new covid cases since yesterday, a jump of 200 in one day and 18 deaths :(. So sad.

Don't get all worked up yet. But, it's coming no matter what.

I now finally know someone (indirectly) who has been diagnosed with Covid. She was already double-vaccinated. That's the first person I know.

That's why, make vaccines mandatory, you say? Mix and match 'em up, you say? Keep all the restrictive measures anyway?

No, no and again no.

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3 minutes ago, myata said:

Just making a simple prediction: once daily cases hit thousand, we will see experts' calling for reinstatement of lockdowns. They will last exactly how long a wave lasts that is two and a half to three months lockdowns or no.

Twenty years (SARS, 2002), no clues other than shut everything down and muzzle everyone up. That's what you call expert management.

It will be a real crime if we wind up with lockdowns to protect people who won't get vaccinated.

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20 minutes ago, Aristides said:

You cherry  pick numbers from developed countries that make up 17% of the worlds population and call it science.

You obviously have no clue what "cherry-picking stats" means.

I used world-o-meter, which uses every shred of data available from this planet. FYI that's the exact opposite of cherry-picking Aristedes. Stop using words when you don't know what they mean. 

In any event, you're sitting there with a computer, and this thread is about "getting vaccinated in Canada" so obviously you're in the developed countries that we're talking about.  Like I said before, stats are not your friend.

Quote

As per my last post, over 1/3 of Florida covid hospitalizations are now under 50. There is a lot more to Covid than just death and complete recovery. At this point we don't even know what complete recovery is or whether there is such a thing.

LMAO, you just talked about cherry-picking stats and then you trot out this, which is 1) cherry-picked 2) a much smaller sample size and 3) anecdotal. 

You're way out of your depth here Aristedes. 

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23 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It will be a real crime if we wind up with lockdowns to protect people who won't get vaccinated.

Tell me if this sounds sick:

Quote

It will be a real crime if our medicare has to cover the costs incurred by people getting sick and dying from the experimental MRNA vaccines, or the cost of caring for children born with birth defects because of MRNA. 

You need to grow up Aristedes. No decent person thinks like you do. 

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17 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

And talking to Covid hysterics reminds me of trying to talk sense to Global Warmiacs. They tell you they're about "the science." So  you give them some science. Then 'No. That's not the right science.

Again, this sounds EXACTLY like the truthers. "I'm giving you science!" they shout, even though their 'science' is cobbled together nonsense unsupported by more than a few cranks.

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27 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

What will you people do then? Go on a bloody rampage.
 

Governments will be forced to bring out vaccine passports so people, industry and businesses can keep those like you out.

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1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Ontario reports highest number of new Covid cases today in sux weeks. The fourth wave is here now thanks to those who haven't taken the vaccine. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-highest-daily-covid-19-case-count-in-nearly-six-weeks-1.5536957

340 new covid cases since yesterday, a jump of 200 in one day and 18 deaths :(. So sad.

As long as the people dying are unvaccinated - even though they could have been vaccinated - I'm fine with that. Let them die. Their choice and no loss to society.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Governments will be forced to bring out vaccine passports so people, industry and businesses can keep those like you out.

Governments brainwashed legions of useful idiots like you to help them force vaccine passports upon people who are not at risk from covid and who don't want to take experimental MRNA vaccines which sometimes kill people or cause grievous bodily harm. 

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