Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[myata]

Here's an interesting thing about the data. So let's take it to faith that this is the epidemics of the non vaccinated and focus only on that part. From the numbers just posted above, cases / hospitalization / ICU / fraction ICU to hospitalizations:

4.9.2021: ~900  277  160   59% 

Now take the time points with similar case counts before (links below)

14.02.2021: ~900  705  292   41%  link

A similar time in the last year's cycle coming out of summer hiatus, same case count, no vaccinations:

23.10.2020: ~900   276  78   28%  link

What is going on? Why along with vaccinations, utilization of ICU shot up more than double and by now is close to two thirds of hospitalizations? Is it possible or some number gimmicks?

Edited September 4, 2021 by myata

[WestCanMan]

One other thing that the Vaxis have going for them, is that the unvaxxed have people like my neighbour bumping up the mortality stats.

He's only 6 years older than me but he looks like he could be my dad. He's been smoking weed and drinking since 1980. He has "no underlying health conditions" but he couldn't walk up two flights of stairs without keeling over.

I can promise you that none of the pharmaceutical companies want that guy taking their meds, and represented in their stats.

[Infidel Dog]

OK Winston, you're lucky I have free time this Saturday morning because that turned out to be a lot of work.

We'll start with studies showing masks and therefore mandates don't work.

34 Studies and Articles Undercutting Utility of Masks for Stopping Covid

I have a lot of other stuff on that topic but we'll leave it there, for now. I'll use it for when the true believers turn up, find some sliver of questionable claim in one selected study and use it to suggest therefore all of them are bunk. Go ahead true believers find your "Fact Checkers."

Now on studies questioning the efficacy of Lockdowns...

I was going to go through all I have one at a time but turns out I don't have to. This one seems  to offer up a fair collection:

Lockdowns Do Not Control the Coronavirus: The Evidence

So go ahead, true believers, 'mediabiasfactcheck' those cites to get some smears on the sites that archived those studies. See how that works out for you.  You should know I've got more.

 

 

[Infidel Dog]

Hey, as I was going through all that though I found a fascinating YouTube vid from my favorite Canadian anti-vaxxer. True believers of the Big Pharma/Resetter narrative might want to avoid this one. She's rational. You won't like it.

She brings up a point Boges might find interesting. Did you know you can go to prison for making a false complaint to VAERS, Boges?

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

34 Studies and Articles Undercutting Utility of Masks for Stopping Covid

Mask-wearing contributes to covid hysteria, and helps to justify the Big Pharma solution. 

Quote

Lockdowns Do Not Control the Coronavirus: The Evidence

Lockdowns also promote covid hysteria, which helps to justify the Big Pharma solution.

If you think about it, literally every single action and comment that every leftist politician in NA made led us down the path to vaccines and away from everything else.

Trudeau's decision to allow flights from covid hotspots, the fact that he gave away all of our PPE and got back junk, Trudeau saying that 'covid wouldn't really get established here, DeBlasio telling NYers to ride the Subway like it's normal, Pelosi going out into a throng of strangers in SFran and hugging people, leftists urging on riots while forbidding all other gatherings, leftists went snakey on HCQ and spread lies and disinformation at a pace that would make the Nazis blush, etc.

Now all that leftists politicians do is push the vaxx and publish misleading stats, and their next step is to ostracize people for not vaxxing. 

[myata]

Why ICU utilization more than doubled in less than a year, in pretty much the same infection situation? No, it has not become twice more dangerous, there's no evidence for that. And is it a coincidence that the new numbers are being paraded across the media as a rationale for this and that restrictions and mandates?

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

In the meantime one might consider Israel versus Sweden:

https://thelibertydaily.com/no-lockdown-sweden-bans-travel-from-ultra-vaxxed-locked-down-israel-over-covid-spikes/

Overall, we rate The Liberty Daily Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, use of sources who routinely fail fact checks as well as a complete lack of transparency regarding who is behind the website. (D. Van Zandt 8/30/2019)

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-liberty-daily/

Why is it every cite you post these days is a bullshit far right conspiracy site staffed by loonies? And do you really think no one here is smart enough to check the crap you post? In fact, Sweden is simply implementing the recommendations of the Council of the European Union and its ban is on ALL non EU members except Switzerland. That includes the US, by the way. Nor is this new. It came into effect in March and has simply been renewed.

Most of Israel's cases are in unvaccinated children or in partly vaccinated people and the overall death rate has been far lower than what it has been in Sweden. 

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-why-are-infections-rising-in-israel/a-58887131

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparing-Israel-to-Sweden-Confirmed-cases-and-death-outcomes_fig1_341262625

[myata]

4 hours ago, Winston said:

Could you share or cite the studies that show mask mandates or lockdowns do not work? I am unaware of such studies, they would be an interesting read.

It looks to me that the matter can be as much in the definition as in the studies. Lockdowns aren't all same; and the same goes for masks. For example there are lockdowns in Australia and New Zealand, lockdowns in New York at the peak of the first wave, lockdowns in Ontario, and extra measures in Sweden. Which of these a) worked clearly b) possibly worked c) there was no choice or d) uncertain, because imposition of lockdowns strangely coincided with the expected natural duration of the cycle? Is there a causal relationship between the lockdown and the containment of an outbreak (New Zealand), or is it clearly warranted in peak infection situation with very high level of infection and density of population (New York); or is it imposed late and it's not clear whether it has done anything or not (Ontario, waves two and three). And almost to the word, same about the mask.

Do they work and even necessary in some situations? Almost certainly. Are they universal solutions for every and all cases as the propaganda is positioning them? I haven't seen sufficient evidence for that. There is none, to my knowledge direct evidence that masks are doing anything in the environments with sufficient spacing or outdoors at low levels of infection. If there's some, and I'm talking about directly measured effect not stretching out the finger, I would certainly take a look.

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Overall, we rate The Liberty Daily Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, use of sources who routinely fail fact checks as well as a complete lack of transparency regarding who is behind the website. (D. Van Zandt 8/30/2019)

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-liberty-daily/

Why is it every cite you post these days is a bullshit far right conspiracy site staffed by loonies? And do you really think no one here is smart enough to check the crap you post? In fact, Sweden is simply implementing the recommendations of the Council of the European Union and its ban is on ALL non EU members except Switzerland. That includes the US, by the way. Nor is this new. It came into effect in March and has simply been renewed.

Most of Israel's cases are in unvaccinated children or in partly vaccinated people and the overall death rate has been far lower than what it has been in Sweden. 

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-why-are-infections-rising-in-israel/a-58887131

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparing-Israel-to-Sweden-Confirmed-cases-and-death-outcomes_fig1_341262625

You crack me up man. You want to bloviate on what you see as your superior intelligence because you can click on a lefty biased site like mediabiasfactcheck and it will tell you what you want to hear about information you don't want  to know about.

But here's the bit that has discerning readers rolling in the aisles:

Quote

And do you really think no one here is smart enough to check the crap you post?

Are you? Are you really that smart? 

What part of the Liberty Daily's claim did you check and find wanting? You know...this claim:

No-Lockdown Sweden Bans Travel from Ultra-Vaxxed, Locked Down Israel Over Covid Spikes

Is it that Sweden Banned Travel from Israel. 

The Times of Irael seems to think they did. That's a mainstream publication.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/portugal-sweden-slap-covid-entry-ban-on-israelis-including-those-vaccinated/

They also tell us Israel is highly vaxxed with a soaring rate of infections.

Quote

Epidemiologist Nadav Davidovitch, a professor at Ben Gurion University, said Israel is currently a “strange case” for other governments to try to categorize.

“We have some of the highest rates for both infections and vaccinations,”

Hell even your own first link says:

Quote

Why are infections rising in Israel?

Did you get that? It said Infections are rising in Israel.

Now it says this has something to with the Delta Variant but so what? The Delta Variant is everywhere now.

So do tell me then Braniac: other than the fact you and yours don't like right wing media what do you have that contradicts Liberty Daily's claim. Nothing right? Nada. Unpuff your chest.

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

Oh, and your other source - you know, this one:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparing-Israel-to-Sweden-Confirmed-cases-and-death-outcomes_fig1_341262625

compares Sweden to Israel but the data ends in early may of 2020.

Sweden is banning travel from Israel because of a recent spike in infections.

Perhaps a crack researcher like yourself can tell us why you think the one thing is pertinent to the other.

[Infidel Dog]

Oh and in case you're wondering what that looks like you can find graphs for daily new cases in Sweden Here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

and in Israel Here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

Check it out research wizard you'll see what Liberty Daily is talking about.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Protest all you want but we the pro-vaxers making the overwhelming majority are winning the battles and the war.

So we are still in the summer weeks away from the fall and new infection cases rising to near 1000 every day in Ontario alone mostly among unvaccinated people but vaccinated ones are being the victims too sacrificed by the selfishness of a small minority. That said we  are winning as time passes elected governments introducing vaccine passports at both Federal and provincial levels and making the life difficult for unvaccinated people.

Protest all you want (Yeah by blocking patients' access to care or insulting/assaulting health care workers) but you are losing the battles and the war and that is the truth as more people every day are getting their shots as they realize they cannot continue with their lives and jobs as unvaccinated thanks to our democratically elected governments (even Conservative Ontario) mandating the will of overwhelming majority of the nation.

Edited September 5, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[cougar]

10 hours ago, myata said:

Why ICU utilization more than doubled in less than a year, in pretty much the same infection situation? No, it has not become twice more dangerous, there's no evidence for that. And is it a coincidence that the new numbers are being paraded across the media as a rationale for this and that restrictions and mandates?

Even if only half of the population is vaccinated we should not be seeing increases in the infection rates from prior years when noone was vaccinated.  To me this is an indication the vaccines are not effective.  If the vaccines were in fact effective, why would they be talking about booster shots for vulnerable people, only months (not years) after those were first vaccinated?

What bothers me is the wide spread propaganda in the media to somehow make you get the shot.  The more they push, the more I feel I should not do it.

Kenney, with his $100 incentive, is he for real???    If I believe my health or life are in danger, am I going to sell those for $100???

Then there was some simpleton of a woman on the radio, who said, and those were her exact words, She does not give a shit about the anti-vaccers' concerns.  They let that go on the radio!  Unbelievable!  I should have called the radio with a rebuttal ,to say I do not give a F that she does not give a S about my opinions.

 

[cougar]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Protest all you want (Yeah by blocking patients' access to care or insulting/assaulting health care workers) but you are losing the battles and the war and that is the truth as more people every day are getting their shots as they realize they cannot continue with their lives and jobs as unvaccinated thanks to our democratically elected governments (even Conservative Ontario) mandating the will of overwhelming majority of the nation.

Hm.  be careful what you wish for.  One day your government may mandate you put a turban on, learn Cantonese or undergo a vasectomy in order to continue with your every day life.

[myata]

Why ICU utilization has more than doubled since a similar period last year, with the same case counts and hospitalizations and no vaccinations? What has changed? If the infection have become twice more virulent, it would have been a huge news and would have been widely reported. No, nothing like that was reported.

Why almost two thirds of Covid-related hospitalizations are now reported as ICU? Are there no more effective therapeutic treatments?

Or is it another creative data gimmick, along the lines of "unknown causes" in contact tracing, "vaccination status unknown" after you were required to provide health card for a booking? Will this sort of creative propaganda ever stop in favor of developing working and effective solutions? Why would it though?

[OftenWrong]

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

When dbl-vaxxed people die from the vid, the vaxxists say "They were almost all elderly with co-morbidities". WOW! No shit Dick Tracy

Just saw the data from Israel. It really looks like the “vaccine” has failed. Doesn’t work as promised.

Enough with this goddam experimentation.

[myata]

What if the strategy" of fanfare drumming and propaganda marching has at last met its match? Like was it ever promised that it would not? And do we have any backup plans?

[CITIZEN_2015]

10 hours ago, cougar said:

Hm.  be careful what you wish for.  One day your government may mandate you put a turban on, learn Cantonese or undergo a vasectomy in order to continue with your every day life.

If 80% of population wishes it and all medical experts agree to it and say it saves lives then so be it however, extremely hypothetical situations very unlikely/

Latest on vaccine effectiveness:

On Saturday, the Ontario COVID-19 Science Advisory Table reported that vaccination continues to massively reduce risk of infection, hospitalization and ICU admission.

They calculate full vaccination generates an 86 per cent relative reduction in risk of infection, 96 per cent relative reduction in risk of hospitalization and a 97 per cent relative reduction in risk of ICU admission

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-811-new-covid-19-cases-3-additional-deaths-1.5574239

I have to choose between clear evidence of existing data all demonstrating effectiveness of vaccines and unanimous advice by all experts in the field or some imaginary conspiracy theory given by those who block access to patients at hospitals and insult and assault caring health care workers. I choose the former

Now you know why i so strongly support vaccinations for those who can.

Edited September 5, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[myata]

Why ICU numbers doubled compared to the last year, with similar number of cases and hospitalizations? If one number cannot be trusted, why any one should?

[CITIZEN_2015]

Just now, myata said:

Why ICU numbers doubled compared to the last year, with similar number of cases and hospitalizations? If one number cannot be trusted, why any one should?

I can't believe you reject such an obvious reason!!!!!! Because it is Delta variant now causing more severe sickness than last year among unvaccinated (96% of hospitalizations).

[myata]

Exclamations don't add evidence. There's no scientific evidence that delta variant statistically is more dangerous. There's a less distant and based on the experience much more plausible possibility of another creative information trick in the march to eternal goodness. Like why would be "vaccination status unknown" when health card was required to book vaccination appointments? At that pace it's not hard to predict that soon the actors would be performing mostly or only? to themselves.

[CITIZEN_2015]

25 minutes ago, myata said:

Exclamations don't add evidence. There's no scientific evidence that delta variant statistically is more dangerous. 

Read your own post.

ICU numbers doubled compared to the last year, with similar number of cases and hospitalizations? 

Jesus Christ. I have nothing more to say to you when you reject such clear evidence.

Edited September 5, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Winston]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

If 80% of population wishes it and all medical experts agree to it and say it saves lives then so be it however, extremely hypothetical situations very unlikely/

Latest on vaccine effectiveness:

On Saturday, the Ontario COVID-19 Science Advisory Table reported that vaccination continues to massively reduce risk of infection, hospitalization and ICU admission.

 

https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/ontario-dashboard/

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

As per the report for September 5.

If you are fully vaccinated, the chance you will end up in ICU is 0.000199 %

If you are fully vaccinated, the chance you will end up in hospital is 0.000340%

If you are unvaccinated, the chance you will end up in ICU is 0.00266%

If you are unvaccinated, the chance you will end up in hospital is 0.00367%

 

For perspective, in 2018, 1 out of 242 people would be injured in a car accident, that is a risk of 0.413%  of being injured in a car accident. (for a year not a day)

In 2018, 1 out of 18,612 people would be killed in a car accident, that is a risk of 0.00537% of being injured in a car accident. (for a year not a day)

https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/motor-vehicle-safety/canadian-motor-vehicle-traffic-collision-statistics-2018

Why am I saying this? Because basing statistics on 1 day or 1 week is not comparable or accurate to an annual representation of the data. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Winston

[CITIZEN_2015]

Data you (Winston) presented for covid in ICU is a snapshot not the entire ICU numbers in a full year therefore you can't compare  apple and oranges.

[Winston]

4 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Data you (Winston) presented for covid in ICU is a snapshot not the entire ICU numbers in a full year therefore you can't compare  apple and oranges.

I 100% agree, it is a snapshot and should not be used to indicate any risk factor. Just like they should not be taking a snap shot of a day or a week as a representation of any risk factor. 

Do vaccines prevent higher number of ICU numbers, yes. 

Do vaccines prevent higher number of hospitalization numbers, yes. 

Do vaccines prevent higher number of general infections? Currently inconclusive.