"Steadily rising prosperity of Canadians"

[Faramir]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:22 AM, RedDog said:

I figure my groceries are up 30% in the past year but I’m on a fixed income. I keep swallowing it everywhere and I have little left to give. Forget a social life. That was gone long ago. Now the new condo fees are coming. That includes gas, power and water. Gulp.

I’m terrified. This is not what I had in mind working nights and weekends to meet ad deadlines much of my life. I haven’t had a vacation in eight years. It’s all been a big lie.

I would suggest the “prosperity” is more like EZ credit. Kids being driven 4 blocks to school in financed $75,000 SUV’s and living in homes with 3.5 bathrooms is not prosperity but living beyond one’s means and needs in a fake illusion.

Funny how people have only noticed inflation now.  I'd say over the last 16 years of our oldest child groceries have increased 10% year over year.

[Faramir]

On 8/2/2021 at 6:27 AM, RedDog said:

The Conference Board of Canada says 70% of Canadian households are TWO missed pay periods away from a slide they wouldn't be able to stop.

$100,000. pick-ups are not normal. Nor is an $8.00 head of lettuce in Winfield, Alberta.

Average Canadian families live on $110,000.  Think about that.  Making $110,000 and still can't get by.  

[Faramir]

On 10/6/2021 at 10:54 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

How much do you think working in a bank pays? It's peanuts and you have no union.

I understand modern banking means they can print money.  Have $10,000 in deposits and a lending ratio of 10% means you can loan out $100,000.  Charge 2 % interest on the 100,000 and that is $2000.  You must made $2000 on $10,000 in deposits.  

[cougar]

2 hours ago, Faramir said:

And government services.  I have four kids so 6 passports renewals will cost me 6 times 150 = $900!!

Don't wanna know what the plane tickets will cost you and your 4 kids.  But if you can't afford the plane tickets, maybe you can save on passport fees?

[myata]

But seriously, what do we have to offer to the world in this century? Manufacturing, China, Thailand, Indonesia way cheaper, same quality. High tech talent? India, Vietnam, Ukraine. Quality, variety and enjoyment of life? Europe. Cheap life by eternal seaside? Greece, Caribbean, Thailand. OK maybe sustainable development? Climate change?

Where are $10 bread, $8 beer and $150 passport taking us, in this century? And over that presiding eternally and invariably, a benevolent bureaucracy that paying itself (out of public, i.e. our pocket) generous salaries, entitlements, allowances with automatic annual raises, not to forget first priority beautification of its communities complete with high speed Internet in its cottages (paid for from the public pocket). Is it still a democracy or what an aristocracy looks, feels and quacks like?

And please don't mention full of goodness self-gratifying preaching. Everyone knows exactly the number of copper pennies it's worth and so please try again for a seat at the United Nations or any forum where serious matters are discussed and addressed.

[Faramir]

18 hours ago, cougar said:

Don't wanna know what the plane tickets will cost you and your 4 kids.  But if you can't afford the plane tickets, maybe you can save on passport fees?

We could go to New York for $400 each.  Or Anaheim for $300 each.  Some really good deals out there.  But you are right, I have never thought we would ever fly anywhere with the kids.  Just driving trips.  My point though was to point out cost increases that are not necessarily captured by inflation statistics.  Another example is BCs property purchase transfer tax.  Brought in during the 80s by Vanderzalm you are taxed 1 percent on your purchase of a home.  The government brings in about 9 to 12 billion each year on this tax, and costs home buyers over $10,000 based on the price of houses now in BC.

[Faramir]

8 hours ago, myata said:

But seriously, what do we have to offer to the world in this century? Manufacturing, China, Thailand, Indonesia way cheaper, same quality. High tech talent? India, Vietnam, Ukraine. Quality, variety and enjoyment of life? Europe. Cheap life by eternal seaside? Greece, Caribbean, Thailand. OK maybe sustainable development? Climate change?

Where are $10 bread, $8 beer and $150 passport taking us, in this century? And over that presiding eternally and invariably, a benevolent bureaucracy that paying itself (out of public, i.e. our pocket) generous salaries, entitlements, allowances with automatic annual raises, not to forget first priority beautification of its communities complete with high speed Internet in its cottages (paid for from the public pocket). Is it still a democracy or what an aristocracy looks, feels and quacks like?

And please don't mention full of goodness self-gratifying preaching. Everyone knows exactly the number of copper pennies it's worth and so please try again for a seat at the United Nations or any forum where serious matters are discussed and addressed.

China is crap quality.  Dishwashers use to last 20 years.  Now its 5 - at best.  

[myata]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:12 PM, Faramir said:

China is crap quality.  Dishwashers use to last 20 years.  Now its 5 - at best.  

Still we don't have an alternative to China's manufacturing as we don't have any means to rein in runaway public bureaucracy. Dreaming and preaching won't cut it, no need even pretending that it could.

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, myata said:

Still we don't have an alternative to China's manufacturing as we don't have any means to rein in runaway public bureaucracy. Dreaming and preaching won't cut it, no need even pretending that it could.

Rein it in? Not likely, nor is that the way they do things in China. More like, whatever sticks its neck out gets hammered down even harder. Square pegs will conform and go into round holes when mashed to a pulp. The next time they will round off their own corners accordingly. Willingly.

Then the left will gloat "Look now how they comply! It proves the success of our system."

[myata]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Rein it in? Not likely, nor is that the way they do things in China. More like, whatever sticks its neck out gets hammered down even harder. Square pegs will conform and go into round holes when mashed to a pulp. The next time they will round off their own corners accordingly. Willingly.

Sure. And between the two, are there good options? And where's if not guarantee then assurance that they wouldn't come down to the same thing, with time? Wisest and eternal Communist party or Liberal-Conservative party-corporation what is the principal difference, from the democracy perspective? In China there's no problem with mandatory experimental vaccination. And in Canada, neither.

[myata]

I go to a market in Europe to buy food at prices considerably lower than in the supermarket. The market works for local people if they couldn't afford the prices, nothing would be sold and it would close. I go to a farmers market in my city and nothing is below $5. A box of tomatoes, $5. A small bag of potatoes, $5. And it was a while back when I was still checking. Who are these prices working for? Who can afford the food basket at 5 times the price?

Great, fresh and tasty bread and pastries can be bought every morning for pennies. A bakery opened recently in my area I went to check it, the pastries $8 and up. A pastry with a morning coffee, well over $10. Who are these prices for? Who's buying?

Let's see: higher echelons of PS; high tech and similar; and CEO. The first group squarely depends on the public budget and it will go bust at some point, possibly in the near future a mathematical certainty as there's no eternal and bottomless source of dough however you dance and sing. The second is moving offshore, to Vietnam and such with mostly higher echelons and business side remaining. And this seems to be the foundation and the driver for economy in a country of 40 millions dreaming itself about 100. Sounds like a plan? How many of them are CEO or work in higher echelons of management? Does a country exist where it's true if not for majority then for a large part of population? That and yes, selling the country outside, wholesale, while it lasts.

Is it only negativity? Do you see and know other, success and progress story? The one with automatic annual raises for a regular worker, not only MP and CEO? Please do share it, everybody needs a bit of heart warming in these times.

[myata]

Healthcare, post secondary education, inflation, housing, food market not to mention democracy and the state of democratic institutions, the country is seriously broken. And in the great Canadian tradition, we'll be the last ones to notice it. We'll resist noticing and understanding it, till it's no longer possible to look the other way till it bites in the a..., the eyes and everywhere. And it may be too late even now. Like, where are the alternatives?

[myata]

Canada, 2021 (21st century). A capital of a G7 country. Light rail transit line, completed only a year earlier over the budget and with a several months delay is not running for the fourth week and counting. They say it'll be some more weeks and not months. They are hopeful.

Imagine this in a G7 European capital? Now try with Mexico or Ukraine.

An announcement in an arriving Air Canada plane: due to concerns of overcrowding in the arrivals area we will allow exiting in groups of 50 people at a time (there are approximately 50 rows of seats in the plane, with 9 seats each in the plane).

No, I didn't imagine that.

I have a hunch that one day we'll wake up to the news that the country, at least its public component, has stopped working. Before then there will be more, many more third world-level projects and services. Can you tell why it won't happen?

[nickjoky]

On 7/25/2021 at 5:45 PM, myata said:

Sure, there are Canadians and Canadians. Let's examine the line we've been hearing so often though, factually and objectively.

Input: average wage in Canada, 2020 is $54,000. Let's take out of it the earnings of the top 1% that do nothing except inflating GDP as average Canadian isn't that likely to be an MP, public minister, private or public CEO or win a million prize lottery. Let's say $50,000 after adjustment. This is a realistic number I know recent university grads in a professional work with similar salary and about a half of Canadians has university education, not average yet.

Assume a one-income family with one child. With that income there will be tax, estimated at around $10,000 federal, provincial, CPP, EI and other. Down to around $3,500 monthly.

Now, a one-bedroom apartment in a city may go these days up to $2K and above. Let's be conservative and say, $1,600 also realistic. Down to under $2K monthly.

Food and basic supplies for a family of three, $1K. Mobile plans, Internet, some streaming or cable. Transit pass, around $100 or more. Car 2-3 times that. Major purchases, several hundred. Occasionally buying food at work. Personal care. Occasional coffee. And that's it we're done!

A hobby? Overseas or longer in-country vacation? Pension and savings contributions? After school sports programs, can go in the hundreds monthly?

Part-time university education program ($6,000 annually)?

Car loan? Mortgage? No way. Is it even called "prosperity" in your book? In mine, it basic sustenance aka survival level in this century.

Doing the logic: single-income family standard in the 1950-70s + "steadily rising prosperity" = what? So how did we buy into this steadily perpetuated fairy tale? Whose prosperity has been rising steadily? What Canadians?

Single-income prosperity for average Canadians? Check, no longer possible. Own you place dream? Check, gone from this generation. What's next? And what will be the destination?

 

Indeed, today loans are very popular for Canadians. You can also use other loans. Read the terms and conditions and choose the best option for you. Quick loans can be more profitable than traditional loans. I recently visited https://northnloans.ca/payday-loans-quebec.php where Easy Payday Loans in Quebec is described in detail. It is a product of a new lending company NorthnLoans. Canada loans till pay day are unsecured small cash advance. The option is often considered as a solution for the urgent money need. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by nickjoky

[RedDog]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:12 PM, Faramir said:

China is crap quality.  Dishwashers use to last 20 years.  Now its 5 - at best.  

The original $1,000 Amanda Radar Range microwaves lasted 30 years. Now you get maybe 3 years out of the $79 to $129 ones available at Canadian Tire or Walmart - all made in China. The disposable society mindset we’ve become is sickening.

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, RedDog said:

The original $1,000 Amanda Radar Range microwaves lasted 30 years. Now you get maybe 3 years out of the $79 to $129 ones available at Canadian Tire or Walmart - all made in China. The disposable society mindset we’ve become is sickening.

I like you - so I'm going to explain some money things for your benefit:

$1000 in 1980 is about $3000 today.  

At the top end if your current example (which is extreme) you would spend $1,290 for the same value.  Lower costs for consumer electronics is a benefit of global trade.

[myata]

Why then all these great benefits do not translate into higher living standard for regular families? A family with several children and one income earner was a de facto standard in the second half of the last century. Why, with all the great progress and rising prosperity it's a rare exception now and almost an impossibility for an average family in the country short edging on the poverty line?

[cougar]

13 hours ago, myata said:

Why then all these great benefits do not translate into higher living standard for regular families? A family with several children and one income earner was a de facto standard in the second half of the last century. Why, with all the great progress and rising prosperity it's a rare exception now and almost an impossibility for an average family in the country short edging on the poverty line?

A few reasons come to mind.

1. Immigration -this one works for the rich only.  Bringing more people in brings wages down, or keeps them in check while inflation is rising.  This way, middle class disappears.  They bring in lots of professionals from all fields, so even if you invested in education, the pressure on your job is up.  And if you are stuck in a low paying job, it will always be a low paying job, just a few cents above minimum wage.

2. As a result of #1, those who have control over real estate managed to inflate the real estate prices to a point where you cannot live on a single income any more - renting or buying - doesn't matter.  In fact renting is usually way more expensive than paying a mortgage.  If people are stuck renting, their retirement savings all go to the landlord.

3. A twisted market economy - Most production is outsourced to Asia with the idea that the shareholders and top management will reap big profits.  While this may be the case for them, everyone else is worse off - paying the same high price for a lower quality product.  If it is a true market economy, they should leave European manufacturers reach our markets.  For example Germany can produce a wide range of high quality items at very competitive prices, but I do not see any of their products in Canada.  So it is a rigged market economy.

4. Consuming more - It is possible that people have more needs now than in the 60's and 70's.   Back then there were no computers, no cell phones, no wireless companies, no easy way to connect people and let them exchange information- like sending e-mails and browsing the internet.  This "convenience" made everyone run faster and work harder.  Cars were less complicated with less extras.  If you want more, you may have to work longer to get more.

5. A more transparent and fair government - it is possible that the government was behind the interests of people more than it is today.  Taxing them less and allowing them to keep more in their pockets.

 There are more that come to mind, but the above 5 might be close enough to the truth.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by cougar

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, cougar said:

A few reasons come to mind.

1. Immigration -this one works for the rich only.  Bringing more people in brings wages down, or keeps them in check while inflation is rising.  This way, middle class disappears.  They bring in lots of professionals from all fields, so even if you invested in education, the pressure on your job is up.  And if you are stuck in a low paying job, it will always be a low paying job, just a few cents above minimum wage.

You are simplifying the effects of immigration.  There are other benefits that you have ignored, and economists generally favour immigration.  Increasing population helps a lot of non-professional workers such as the trades.

I don't understand the comment about 'suck in a low paying job'.  MInimum wage jobs are hard to get out of, as you have to increase your education or get new skills - nothing new there.

5 hours ago, cougar said:

2. As a result of #1, those who have control over real estate managed to inflate the real estate prices to a point where you cannot live on a single income any more - renting or buying - doesn't matter.  In fact renting is usually way more expensive than paying a mortgage.  If people are stuck renting, their retirement savings all go to the landlord.

There's definitely something else going on with real estate - money laundering, Air BnB etc.

5 hours ago, cougar said:

3. A twisted market economy - Most production is outsourced to Asia with the idea that the shareholders and top management will reap big profits.  While this may be the case for them, everyone else is worse off - paying the same high price for a lower quality product.  If it is a true market economy, they should leave European manufacturers reach our markets.  For example Germany can produce a wide range of high quality items at very competitive prices, but I do not see any of their products in Canada.  So it is a rigged market economy.

There are also benefits to Canadians with global trade.  If you work in the resource industry, real estate and other industries you have done well.  And everyone has benefitted from reduced costs of imported goods.

It's a market economy, and Germany exports manufacturing hardware to China quite successfully.

 

5 hours ago, cougar said:

4. Consuming more - It is possible that people have more needs now than in the 60's and 70's.   Back then there were no computers, no cell phones, no wireless companies, no easy way to connect people and let them exchange information- like sending e-mails and browsing the internet.  This "convenience" made everyone run faster and work harder.  Cars were less complicated with less extras.  If you want more, you may have to work longer to get more.

You can't turn the clock back to the 1960s in today's world.  If we had huge tariffs on imports, we would just pay more for goods - it wouldn't boost our production.  

5 hours ago, cougar said:

5. A more transparent and fair government - it is possible that the government was behind the interests of people more than it is today.  Taxing them less and allowing them to keep more in their pockets.

Then again, people discussed economic issues - which were also simpler to follow in those days.

Today, we have a different set of problems.  Forums like this could ostensibly be used to discuss the opportunities for us to improve trade strategies and hold our governments to a higher standard are instead used to discuss the pressing issue of Trans Women dominating bicycle races...
 

5 hours ago, cougar said:

 There are more that come to mind, but the above 5 might be close enough to the truth.

 

You're right, and you're wrong.  

If you want the government to be more responsive to the people then we need to rediscover a 'public' that will do that and not trade in dumbed-down topics.  Reducing immigration might actually be a great start to such a programme if it forces us to create a forum of intelligent discussion.

[myata]

All of this can be summarized in one both the cause, and outcome: as a society we lost even remote ability to modify and evolve the society in the interests of all citizens. And decorative democratic adornments help and contribute very little if anything in addressing it. The system does not work like that, was not created to work for that, and never updated and / or fixed consciously and intelligently to work for all citizens, continuously and in perpetuity. And as a result those who made it to the rule and control have no reasons to worry about essential change, they don't even need to notice that something is wrong and needs to be changed. The system was made for them to not worry about anything and so, for them, all is working perfectly as is, complete with multi hundred thousand compensations with automatic annual raises. If you were in that place, wouldn't life look in entirely different colors?

Canada is an amusing political Jurassic park where things are frozen in their post-colonial state and nothing can be changed anymore. Interesting, how long it can go on for. Evolution is such a curious study.

Edited November 23, 2021 by myata

[cougar]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are simplifying the effects of immigration.  There are other benefits that you have ignored, and economists generally favour immigration.  Increasing population helps a lot of non-professional workers such as the trades.

I don't understand the comment about 'suck in a low paying job'.  MInimum wage jobs are hard to get out of, as you have to increase your education or get new skills - nothing new there.

 

"suck" was meant to read "stuck"

Let me know how immigration helps a TH employee keep up with inflation.  Also please let me know immigration helps anyone get a better salary and have more leverage to negotiate with CEO's and such.

Benefits?????   The benefits are what you saw happen in the lower mainland and other parts of the country - devastation!

Don't want to overcomplicate it and rebut your other comments.  Let's start with this one first.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

1. Let me know how immigration helps a TH employee keep up with inflation. 

2. Also please let me know immigration helps anyone get a better salary and have more leverage to negotiate with CEO's and such.

3. Benefits?????   The benefits are what you saw happen in the lower mainland and other parts of the country - devastation!

 

1. Inflation and immigration aren't really related, so really the answer is that workers benefit from a bigger economy.  Take a look around and you'll find that a lot of immigrants actually work at Tim Horton's.

2. Again, a bigger economy is generally good for opportunities.

3. Immigration causes flooding ?  What devastation ?
 

[cougar]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Inflation and immigration aren't really related, so really the answer is that workers benefit from a bigger economy.  Take a look around and you'll find that a lot of immigrants actually work at Tim Horton's.

2. Again, a bigger economy is generally good for opportunities.

3. Immigration causes flooding ?  What devastation ?
 

Huh ????

 

[myata]

What, you heard it "generally good for you" doesn't it answer everything?

[OftenWrong]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:54 AM, myata said:

And we see no advanced intelligent aliens either.

What we really need is a miracle.

We who are waiting for Godot.

 

(No, not the forum moderator...)