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Trudeau is going to lose.


PIK

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Those are occasional contributors. and three are with the Financial Post. I note John Ivison is one of them. He's one of those I spoke of who don't have a sliver of daylight between their social views and that of the NDP.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I didn't know she quit...

3. So if I find a single non-progressive viewpoint being expressed, say by Rex Murphy, then I have proven you wrong ?

Are you really going to suggest Rex Murphy, for all his grumpiness and sarcasm, is a terribly conservative guy? I'm not saying no one ever expresses a non-progressive view in the Post, but if you read what Kay wrote, doing so is becoming more and more difficult, even for high profile columnists, even at the Post. So what kind of pressures do you think are on lower level writers there and at other newspapers?

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. So, I concur that my examples are financial but "open for discussion" and discussed aren't the same.   By saying The National Post is not conservative, then you are arriving at the discussion daring someone to point out that your perspective is slanted, if not biased.  I hear leftists say this all the time, eg. The NDP is not left, Bernie Sanders isn't but they usually add a caveat that they would never expect the average person to agree with them.

Perhaps my view is a little skewed in that I read the British and American journalists who actually ARE conservative and seem free to express counter-cultural viewpoints much more freely than anything I read here. 

A poll last year suggests 2/3 of Canadians don't believe systemic racism exists. Yet our media is unanimous that it does. Other polls have suggested half or sixty percent of Canadians believe immigration is too high yet not a single journalist dares utter such a thing. Do you not believe that kind of thing is dangerous in that it tells people they cannot find a reflection of their own views and beliefs in mainstream media?

To quote Barbara Kay:

And a writer shouldn’t have to feel like she is imposing on her editor, or asking him to exert himself as a special favour, merely so she can give voice to mainstream principles that most Canadians believe. 

 

Edited by Argus
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13 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. Those are occasional contributors. and three are with the Financial Post. I note John Ivison is one of them. He's one of those I spoke of who don't have a sliver of daylight between their social views and that of the NDP. Are you really going to suggest Rex Murphy, for all his grumpiness and sarcasm, is a terribly conservative guy?

2. So what kind of pressures do you think are on lower level writers there and at other newspapers?

3. Perhaps my view is a little skewed in that I read the British and American journalists who actually ARE conservative and seem free to express counter-cultural viewpoints much more freely than anything I read here. 

4. ...not a single journalist dares utter such a thing.

 

 

1. Ok.  It's the Conservative paper of record in Canada.
2. I don't know but the paper still exists. 
3. This culture war stuff is a distraction for left and for right.  The way it's being fought, it's a brand new front on a culture war designed to get clicks and have little impact on anything.  
4. You don’t have to be a Trumpian opponent of chain migration to think there is a fairness issue at play here — that people who have not contributed to Canadian society should not automatically have access to this country’s social programs, just as their demand for those services is about to peak. 
That's your "NDP guy" Ivison by the way. 

Again, you are hyperventilating.  These people have far more influence than juvenile on-campus politics does.

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https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-its-trudeau-not-bernier-whos-the-outlier-on-immigration
 

Quote

 half or sixty percent of Canadians believe immigration is too high yet not a single journalist dares utter such a thing. 

“Say No to Mass Immigration.” This statement is, apparently, beyond the pale. “It’s hurtful,” read a quoted featured in the Calgary Herald. A Toronto Star story described it as “deceptive,” while a headline in the Sun papers quoted someone calling it “very racist.”  It’s hard to imagine the bubble-wrapped, politically correct world one has to live in to consider these five words to be “very racist.”

Is a country allowed to set its own immigration policy? Do citizens have a say in the ever growing levels of newcomers being admitted into their country?

 

 

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https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/bissett-immigration-policy-is-out-of-control-and-needs-an-overhaul

Another journalist who dares to say something about immigration...

And please don't move the goalposts to quote someone who said something bad about them...  You beckoned me onto this silly topic with your claim: All mainstream reporters, commentators and opinion makers are required to hold the same left wing values and beliefs on all social policy issues.

Note the words: ALL ... REQUIRED ... SAME VALUES ... ALL SOCIAL POLICY ISSUES

Hyperventilating, and hyperbole is what this is.  I can agree with the gist of what you say but you constantly get high on your own farts, then stroll out of the restroom telling us to go smell it.  I won't. 

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JT’s first problem is that the election call was unpopular. Most people don’t see a need for one now. Secondly, O’Toole comes across as a calm, reasonable and reassuringly uncharismatic candidate not too affected by the zanier enthusiasms of the right, so it’s hard to paint him as a fire-breathing extremist. His personal story plays well too, especially when compared to the incumbent. However, the protesters at Trudeau’s rallies are a serious matter and could swing sympathy behind him if things deteriorate. I give Singh credit for raising two issues that bested our last two PMs - the cell phone oligopoly and the inability of CRA to get to grips with tax evasion and the ‘completely legal’ loopholes enjoyed by Trudeau’s trust fund buddies. 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/bissett-immigration-policy-is-out-of-control-and-needs-an-overhaul

Another journalist who dares to say something about immigration...

And please don't move the goalposts to quote someone who said something bad about them...  You beckoned me onto this silly topic with your claim: All mainstream reporters, commentators and opinion makers are required to hold the same left wing values and beliefs on all social policy issues.

Note the words: ALL ... REQUIRED ... SAME VALUES ... ALL SOCIAL POLICY ISSUES

Hyperventilating, and hyperbole is what this is.  I can agree with the gist of what you say but you constantly get high on your own farts, then stroll out of the restroom telling us to go smell it.  I won't. 

you are nitpicking unimportant things

it is obvious that most of the media has a strong left leaning bias and there is hardly any media holding a contrary opinion

the occasional right leaning source existing does not disprove this obvious dynamic

it is much closer to 100% left than 50/50 left-right, so stop defending the media

Edited by Yzermandius19
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4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

JT’s first problem is that the election call was unpopular. Most people don’t see a need for one now. Secondly, O’Toole comes across as a calm, reasonable and reassuringly uncharismatic candidate not too affected by the zanier enthusiasms of the right, so it’s hard to paint him as a fire-breathing extremist. His personal story plays well too, especially when compared to the incumbent. However, the protesters at Trudeau’s rallies are a serious matter and could swing sympathy behind him if things deteriorate. I give Singh credit for raising two issues that bested our last two PMs - the cell phone oligopoly and the inability of CRA to get to grips with tax evasion and the ‘completely legal’ loopholes enjoyed by Trudeau’s trust fund buddies. 

Yes, Singh's critique of Trudeau paints Trudeau as a hypocrite.

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"WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO OUR DEMOCRACY?"  opined CBC's Janyce McGregor.           Except that......................................she fails to throw that question at Justin Trudeau!

 

Indeed, what's going to happen to our democracy when Trudeau keeps eroding our rights and freedom at every opportunity he gets!

 

Right to religion, belief, conscience!  (women's choice)

Right to free expression and opinion! (Islamophobia)

Right to choose!  (healthcare, childcare, vaccine)

Right to equal protection regardless of age, physical and intellectual disability!  (human right)

 

Edited by betsy
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Jagmeet Singh can promise the world right now.  Every time his bottom jaw drops open and a flood of nonsense comes out, the media is gushing to repeat it.  Fact is, this communist has no idea how an economy works, how $$ are generated, and which taxes work and which ones scare investment away.  This communist fool will most likely have a say in how this country is run.

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19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok.  It's the Conservative paper of record in Canada.

Says who?

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:


3. This culture war stuff is a distraction for left and for right.  The way it's being fought, it's a brand new front on a culture war designed to get clicks and have little impact on anything.  

Or maybe just dismissing arguments and disagreements over major policy ideas as 'culture wars' is the new attempt at distraction.

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I knew you would do this. It seems to be your thing that if someone points out how a particular attitude is utterly prevalent you'll hunt up a single case or so and brandish it triumphantly aloft as if this trumps all. It doesn't. I read Ivision. You clearly do not. I've read his many columns extolling the virtues of ever higher immigration. A single column in another paper questioning the quadrupling of elderly immigration sponsorship does not negate that.

 

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19 hours ago, Argus said:

A poll last year suggests 2/3 of Canadians don't believe systemic racism exists. Yet our media is unanimous that it does. Other polls have suggested half or sixty percent of Canadians believe immigration is too high yet not a single journalist dares utter such a thing. Do you not believe that kind of thing is dangerous in that it tells people they cannot find a reflection of their own views and beliefs in mainstream media?

Some mainstream medias do have columnists criticizing immigration in that trend you suggest. So you cannot say they don't. However, it is true that the majority of main stream medias are not addressing this and yes it is dangerous. When you swipe issues under the carpet, you are just delaying a problem that can only get worst later on.

If the majority of people think the immigration is too big, then they become part of the problem as well. We have alot of space in this country, we can get the double or triple of what actually get and it would still not a problem of numbers. The problem is rather the efficiency to assimilate the society's functioning. It's easy for a british immigrant to come live here, it's only issue will be to drive on the right side of the road. But someone coming from a very different culture, it's big challenge and not every one succeed. It's normal that it is more difficult for some than others. It's not a new data that we could not see it coming. We knew this for quite a while. The help provided for their integration is just not enough for some immigrants.

So if we state that we need to reduce the number of immigrants, we also must admit that it means that WE FAIL. The problem is not the immigrants, the problem is us, we are not good enough to do what it takes. If we compare ourselves with other countries, some are doing just fine with the same numbers or more. Others are doing worst with smaller numbers. Let's assume and be consequent.

Here is an analogy. You are very hungry and are offered two choices. You can have 2 medium burgers or, 1 big burger that is the exact double of the 2 others. No ustensil, just the burger(s). You decide to take the single big burger. Then once you start eating, you figure that your mouth is not big enough and you complain. You cannot say the problems are the meat, the bread and the accompaniements. Because if you would have chosen the 2 normal burgers, you would have eaten them both because you were hungry enough for both and there would be no problem.

So you are right when you say the medias do not address this like ti should. But you are wrong on the "should". The medias are taking sides of the polarisation of the extreme opinions. The ones that want as much immigrants as possible no matter what, and those who think there are always too many immigrants anyway. The medias fail the burger test. some medias want you to reject all burgers, others want you to choke on the big one. That is danger.

 

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19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-its-trudeau-not-bernier-whos-the-outlier-on-immigration
“Say No to Mass Immigration.” This statement is, apparently, beyond the pale. “It’s hurtful,” read a quoted featured in the Calgary Herald. A Toronto Star story described it as “deceptive,” while a headline in the Sun papers quoted someone calling it “very racist.”  It’s hard to imagine the bubble-wrapped, politically correct world one has to live in to consider these five words to be “very racist.”

Is a country allowed to set its own immigration policy? Do citizens have a say in the ever growing levels of newcomers being admitted into their country?

It's really quite amazing that you don't get the contradiction of using this to counter my argument about a lack of diverse opinions allowed in Canadian media on social issues like immigration. The postmedia and Toronto Star papers in sync decrying someone daring to question mass immigration, outrage expressed, the billboards immediately pulled down. But a columnist in the Sun says people should be allowed to talk about immigration and you hold it up gleefully as if that disputes my complaint.

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19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

He's not a journalist. And you had to go back four years to find it.

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And please don't move the goalposts to quote someone who said something bad about them...  You beckoned me onto this silly topic with your claim: All mainstream reporters, commentators and opinion makers are required to hold the same left wing values and beliefs on all social policy issues.

Note the words: ALL ... REQUIRED ... SAME VALUES ... ALL SOCIAL POLICY ISSUES

Hyperventilating, and hyperbole is what this is.  I can agree with the gist of what you say but you constantly get high on your own farts, then stroll out of the restroom telling us to go smell it.  I won't. 

And you constantly take this sanctimonious, superior attitude to question finer details even while being unable to dispute the bulk of the allegation which is angering you. You search back for years for a few contrary opinions on a single subject and then gleefully wave them aloft as if this is anything more than you being pedantic. 

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19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I at least am aware of my subjectivity and propensity to get carried away.  You apparently are not.  Grow an inch and retract your statement for once.

Good DAY sir.

Are you even aware of how priggish and arrogant you sound here?

Edited by Argus
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On 7/19/2021 at 8:33 AM, PIK said:

Made that decision today. 

I have and my decision is to vote for the Peoples Party of Canada, and Maxine Bernier as it's political leader. The other three leftist liberal or socialist/communist political party's like the communist NDP, the socialist liberals, and the soon to become the liberal socialist conservative party are all in it together and are all on the same page to say phk Canada and phk Canadians. They all pretty much want to implement communism for Canada and Canadians. Even liberal O'Tool has said that he is all in for vaccine passports or as some like to call it the "mark of the beast or 666 with the eventual goal of placing an RFID chip under your skin. And you will eventually get that chip in your finger if you vote for the other three communist political party's. Believe it or not.  

It will all come down to as to whether Canadians want globalist communism or world freedom. The only political party that can offer and save Canada from becoming a globalist controlled communist country is to vote for the PPC. To do otherwise will spell your doom forever. You are being warned. 😇

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22 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-its-trudeau-not-bernier-whos-the-outlier-on-immigration
 

“Say No to Mass Immigration.” This statement is, apparently, beyond the pale. “It’s hurtful,” read a quoted featured in the Calgary Herald. A Toronto Star story described it as “deceptive,” while a headline in the Sun papers quoted someone calling it “very racist.”  It’s hard to imagine the bubble-wrapped, politically correct world one has to live in to consider these five words to be “very racist.”

Is a country allowed to set its own immigration policy? Do citizens have a say in the ever growing levels of newcomers being admitted into their country?

 

 
 

 

Gawd dam right Canadians should have a right and a say with our present day immigration policy. Canada has been massively flooded with millions of unneeded and unwanted third world legal and illegal refugees and new immigrants for decades now which was never asked for. 

Why is Canada trying so hard to flood this country with so many different cultures and religions from mostly culturally incompatible foreigners? Nearly 82% of all of our new so called new immigrants and refugees are all coming from non white countries. And this has been going on since old man communist Trudeau became the dictator communist PM of Canada several decades ago. To continue on this path to a possible third world takeover of Canada is to be keep committing this genocide that is in the works against the white people of Canada. 

If the white people of Canada do not stand up and try and put an end to this third world immigration madness, our children and grandchildren will not be living in a white homeland that they can call their own. They will all pretty much end up working for some guy/gal from some non white country. And rest assured that it will not be very nice and pleasant for those white children. Believe it or not. 😇

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4 hours ago, taxme said:

I have and my decision is to vote for the Peoples Party of Canada, and Maxine Bernier as it's political leader. The other three leftist liberal or socialist/communist political party's like the communist NDP, the socialist liberals, and the soon to become the liberal socialist conservative party are all in it together and are all on the same page to say phk Canada and phk Canadians. They all pretty much want to implement communism for Canada and Canadians. Even liberal O'Tool has said that he is all in for vaccine passports or as some like to call it the "mark of the beast or 666 with the eventual goal of placing an RFID chip under your skin. And you will eventually get that chip in your finger if you vote for the other three communist political party's. Believe it or not.  

It will all come down to as to whether Canadians want globalist communism or world freedom. The only political party that can offer and save Canada from becoming a globalist controlled communist country is to vote for the PPC. To do otherwise will spell your doom forever. You are being warned. 😇

So you are actually a Trudeau supporter then?

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9 hours ago, Benz said:

Some mainstream medias do have columnists criticizing immigration in that trend you suggest. So you cannot say they don't. However, it is true that the majority of main stream medias are not addressing this and yes it is dangerous. When you swipe issues under the carpet, you are just delaying a problem that can only get worst later on.

If the majority of people think the immigration is too big, then they become part of the problem as well. We have alot of space in this country, we can get the double or triple of what actually get and it would still not a problem of numbers. The problem is rather the efficiency to assimilate the society's functioning. It's easy for a british immigrant to come live here, it's only issue will be to drive on the right side of the road. But someone coming from a very different culture, it's big challenge and not every one succeed. It's normal that it is more difficult for some than others. It's not a new data that we could not see it coming. We knew this for quite a while. The help provided for their integration is just not enough for some immigrants.

So if we state that we need to reduce the number of immigrants, we also must admit that it means that WE FAIL. The problem is not the immigrants, the problem is us, we are not good enough to do what it takes. If we compare ourselves with other countries, some are doing just fine with the same numbers or more. Others are doing worst with smaller numbers. Let's assume and be consequent.

Here is an analogy. You are very hungry and are offered two choices. You can have 2 medium burgers or, 1 big burger that is the exact double of the 2 others. No ustensil, just the burger(s). You decide to take the single big burger. Then once you start eating, you figure that your mouth is not big enough and you complain. You cannot say the problems are the meat, the bread and the accompaniements. Because if you would have chosen the 2 normal burgers, you would have eaten them both because you were hungry enough for both and there would be no problem.

So you are right when you say the medias do not address this like ti should. But you are wrong on the "should". The medias are taking sides of the polarisation of the extreme opinions. The ones that want as much immigrants as possible no matter what, and those who think there are always too many immigrants anyway. The medias fail the burger test. some medias want you to reject all burgers, others want you to choke on the big one. That is danger.

 

Actually only about 20% of Canada is arable and with 90% of the population crowded in the south and no governments willing to set policies to encourage or require a minimum northern residency period prior to granting full citizenship, Canada is getting very crowded and expensive due to the constant increase in demand for property.  Also, it’s clear that decisions are being made about what Canada should accept by external organizations like the UN and dominant governments like China and the US.  Trudeau is an easy mark for such manipulation.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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On 8/26/2021 at 8:00 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

But I don't understand HOW Canadians can choose or distinguish between the two (Liberals and Conservatives). They are both singing the same song. O'Toole has moved so much to the left on government spending, deficit, economic recovery (by more spending), as well as other issues that he might as well be the leader of Liberal party. 

What is that they are saying differently?

That's my take too.   O'Toole is trying to out Trudeau Trudeau.   It's not going to work.   Trump has shown quite conclusively that the best way to get conservatives energized is to use fear and hate.

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Another day of CPAC callers mostly wanting to get rid of Trudeau.  If they reflect the silent majority out there........looks like one way or the other - Trudeau is out.    We might even end up with an NDP, if not Conservative.

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18 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

My thoughts also . . . 

If we are to rid Canada of Trudeau, why f'k around with a fringe party ?

If I were the Liberals I would be looking for a way to help Bernier's campaign, even feeding money to him under the table. He's the best thing which has happened to Trudeau in the last two years.

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