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Trudeau is going to lose.


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59 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. So then why did the Liberals appoint an immigrant as a cabinet minister if her grasp of English is so poor she thinks calling the Taliban our brothers isn't a problem?

2. Also, the NDP just dumped two candidates for anti-Semitic messages. Do you hold this against the entire party? Are the NDP anti-Semites?

1. Yes, you seem worth answered my question.

2. No I don't, but I question their practices. I don't think I said that the PPC are all racists either. 

I was countering  Y's assertion that it was a witch hunt, that they were going after these people because they don't like them etc etc. So you're changing the frame of the discussion.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

You think maybe he didn't want to get into a personal slagging match with individuals? I have never seen him call out any other academics directly, though admittedly I don't follow him.

There are academics out there that are marxist, they are older and definitely don't jump into the area of identity politics that I have seen. I mean you can count Chomsky I guess who is an an anarcosyndicalist.  But I think he mostly speaks out against orgasm, at least he signed that famous letter.

 

They also are admitted marxist, they're not exactly ashamed of it because well it would be very hard to hide that for one thing.  They go on talk shows, even I think Fox News has had one on, and explain their criticisms of what's happening in the business world etc

Peterson didn't have a clue.

 

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22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

There are academics out there that are marxist, they are older and definitely don't jump into the area of identity politics that I have seen. I mean you can count Chomsky I guess who is an an anarcosyndicalist.  But I think he mostly speaks out against orgasm, at least he signed that famous letter.

 

They also are admitted marxist, they're not exactly ashamed of it because well it would be very hard to hide that for one thing.  They go on talk shows, even I think Fox News has had one on, and explain their criticisms of what's happening in the business world etc

Peterson didn't have a clue.

 

just because some marxists ain't woke and don't like the woke doesn't mean the woke aren't marxists

marxists are not a monolith, they fight with each other all the time, that's what marxists do

no one kills more commies than the commies, they eat their own

Edited by Yzermandius19
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10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1j. ust because some marxists ain't woke and don't like the woke doesn't mean the woke aren't marxists

2. marxists are not a monolith, they fight with each other all the time, that's what marxists do

 

1. Well we talked about this already

2. Agreed

 

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IMO If someone cant see the difference, then they should not bother voting or even discussing it. Canada is teetering on the cliffs edge of a disaster and voting anyone but con this time is dangerous.

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22 minutes ago, PIK said:

IMO If someone cant see the difference, then they should not bother voting or even discussing it. Canada is teetering on the cliffs edge of a disaster and voting anyone but con this time is dangerous.

Canada went over the cliff long ago

voting for the CPC won't save it

Canada isn't going to change if the Liberals lose

wishful thinking is a helluva drug

 

I'll discuss it if I want

I'll vote if I want

I'll vote for whoever I want to vote for

you ain't the boss of me

if it upsets you to see someone with such a viewpoint expressing that viewpoint

then no one is forcing you to read my posts

deal with it

 

your opinion above is trash

and I am free to say so

whatever, I'll do what I want

 

Edited by Yzermandius19
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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

They also are admitted marxist, they're not exactly ashamed of it because well it would be very hard to hide that for one thing.  They go on talk shows, even I think Fox News has had one on, and explain their criticisms of what's happening in the business world etc

Peterson didn't have a clue.

 

Peterson's position, as far as I can remember, is that many of the the Marxist minded intellectuals got tired of trying to rally the working class and instead seized on identity politics as a way to batter down the system. Now instead of rallying the poor they get to rally various minority groups against the evil, racist, paternalistic Capitalist system. The goals are still the same.  Weaken support for the current hierarchies and political system and introduce ideas of Marxism (ie, equity now, and seizing the wealth of the upper classes.)

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes, you seem worth answered my question.

2. No I don't, but I question their practices. I don't think I said that the PPC are all racists either. 

I was countering  Y's assertion that it was a witch hunt, that they were going after these people because they don't like them etc etc. So you're changing the frame of the discussion.

There is some of that. The media focus a lot more attention on 'racists' or anyone in a conservatives party who shows signs of having had bigoted/racist thoughts but pay rather less attention to such people in left wing parties. When they are found the media seem more willing to accept they are anomalies than in conservative minded parties. 

When a party is new, it draws a lot of oddballs, and has little means to screen against them. It takes time to develop an organization to do that. And as we see from the NDP, even long-experienced parties with veteran staffers miss people.

Btw, I don't like Bernier. I think his behaviour over vaccines and masks is disgraceful. I'm not going to vote for him or his party. That being said, a lot of his party's policies are pretty solidly conservative and would be supported by a very large number of Canadians, ie 40%-60%

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5 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. Peterson's position, as far as I can remember, is that many of the the Marxist minded intellectuals got tired of trying to rally the working class and instead seized on identity politics as a way to batter down the system.

2. Now instead of rallying the poor they get to rally various minority groups against the evil, racist, paternalistic Capitalist system.

3. The goals are still the same. 

4. Weaken support for the current hierarchies and political system and introduce ideas of Marxism (ie, equity now, and seizing the wealth of the upper classes.)

1. Well, let's be generous and say he was speaking in broad strokes and not about individual Marxists doing exactly this tactic.  I don't think he was saying that Marxists switched tack in this way.

2. Yes, that's his take.

3. They aren't.  The Woke will jump with glee with Colin Kapernik appears in one of their commercials.  Marxists don't think there should be a Nike, in its current form.

4. This presupposes that racial equity and Marxism are interchangeable, though.  That's the point of contention.  It it were really Marxism, in a real way, then brands would not "gravitate toward low-cost, high-noise signals as a substitute for genuine reform to ensure their survival" in a trendy way. I thought you were aware of the fakeness of these ad campaigns 

The link is to an article in The Atlantic.

It goes the other way, too.  Wokies have a word for people who focus on poverty, class and so on but it escapes me.  Basically they are against programs that help poor white people because they aren't disadvantaged like their Black classmates at Princeton.  Does that sound Marxist to you ?

Anyway, I don't think we disagree on anything practical here - the mechanics of these movements have problems for me, and you dislike both of them.  Tying them together is a theoretical argument but we don't have the time or bandwidth to do the question justice as neither of us are academics, ie we have jobs.
 

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11 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. When a party is new, it draws a lot of oddballs, and has little means to screen against them.  

2. Btw, I don't like Bernier. I think his behaviour over vaccines and masks is disgraceful. I'm not going to vote for him or his party.

3. That being said, a lot of his party's policies are pretty solidly conservative and would be supported by a very large number of Canadians, ie 40%-60%

1. I appreciate that and try to not tar the adherents with the (deserved) tar that I gloop all over their mad leader.  Also these are outsiders, and populists who fall into the PPC so I can understand why they're fooled.

2. I'm not surprised.  

3. People see the Conservatives as pragmatic on budget matters, I agree.

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7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. People see the Conservatives as pragmatic on budget matters, I agree.

Yes. It's almost impossible for a party promising austerity to get elected in this era, where the other parties are throwing money around so freely. Not until people start getting scared at the size of the debt. And they're not there yet. Still, I've heard little from the Tories about cutting corporate welfare, cutting interprovincial trade barriers, or expanding the economy. Nothing but generalities about the military and very little about national security or law and order.

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16 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

O'Toole is much closer to Trudeau on spending than Harper

I wouldn't call that pragmatic

I'd call that frivolous spending for the sake of spending

I'd call it necessary spending because you can't do anything if you can't get elected.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

I'd call it necessary spending because you can't do anything if you can't get elected.

Key word us spending. Trudeau doesn't spend, he pisses it against the wall. Huge difference that Yz doesn't understand.

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13 minutes ago, PIK said:

Key word us spending. Trudeau doesn't spend, he pisses it against the wall. Huge difference that Yz doesn't understand.

O'Toole is running on pissing it against the wall too

he's not even trying to hide the ball

that's what PIK doesn't understand

Edited by Yzermandius19
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O'Toole repeatedly refuses to answer to direct questions. O'Toole says anything to get elected.

https://globalnews.ca/video/8196485/canada-election-otoole-repeatedly-dodges-questions-about-albertas-reverse-course

https://globalnews.ca/video/8192840/canada-election-otoole-dodges-questions-on-whether-hed-keep-liberal-carbon-tax

Btw, the latest polls say Trudeau will WIN the election next Monday so maybe the titles of this thread needs to be changed to Trudeau is going to win.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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47 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

O'Toole repeatedly refuses to answer to direct questions. O'Toole says anything to get elected.

https://globalnews.ca/video/8196485/canada-election-otoole-repeatedly-dodges-questions-about-albertas-reverse-course

https://globalnews.ca/video/8192840/canada-election-otoole-dodges-questions-on-whether-hed-keep-liberal-carbon-tax

Btw, the latest polls say Trudeau will WIN the election next Monday so maybe the titles of this thread needs to be changed to Trudeau is going to win.

When was the last time Trudeau answered a direct question that wasn't a softball posed by one of his fawning admirers from the CBC?

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The NDP have a sense of humour, criticizing Trudeau for calling an election during the pandemic while forgetting NDP Premier Horgan of BC did the same thing. So did (conservative) Premier Moe in Saskatchewan.

I believe the Grits called the election because they have to bring in some tough budget measures and they wanted to get the election behind them.

 

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4 hours ago, Argus said:

When was the last time Trudeau answered a direct question that wasn't a softball posed by one of his fawning admirers from the CBC?

Politicians usually dodge questions or direct answer and Trudeau is not an exemption but in O'Toole's case his answers to direct clear questions was really irrelevant and totally off the questions he was asked so directly and repeatedly.

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10 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

yet another example of O'Toole acting just like Trudeau

Of course, you do realize, it is because that is what many voters want. Canadians are generally centre-right or centre-left. The role of government is to reflect the population, not Absolute Militant Monarchists like me or American style republicans, dark blue tories or the left wing of the NDP. Taxme, Yzer and me are outliers who should not expect the government to cater to our fringe beliefs. 

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16 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The NDP have a sense of humour, criticizing Trudeau for calling an election during the pandemic while forgetting NDP Premier Horgan of BC did the same thing. So did (conservative) Premier Moe in Saskatchewan.

I believe the Grits called the election because they have to bring in some tough budget measures and they wanted to get the election behind them.

 

That and Trudeau doesn't like having to answer questions, and wants control of House committees back so they stop asking for information about things he doesn't want to talk about. I guess if he fails to win his majority he'll re-launch his lawsuit against the House of Commons for daring to ask for information about what was going on in the government.

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14 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Politicians usually dodge questions or direct answer and Trudeau is not an exemption but in O'Toole's case his answers to direct clear questions was really irrelevant and totally off the questions he was asked so directly and repeatedly.

In other words, just like Trudeau has been doing for the past five years.

The differene being the reporters are desperate to get O'Toole to say bad things about Alberta's premier while those who question Trudeau merely want to know about government policy and actions.

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It is the Leader's will. That is all you need to know.

The ballot question is not who is the nicest guy, not who believes the right ideology. The question is who will govern effectively. Minor missteps such as not condemning the Air India bomber, or a visit to the Aga Khan, or even association with a disgraced Premier. The question is who will be the best administrator. Either of the two front runners are capable. Mr. Trudeau has a bit of an edge through his handling of the NAFTA re-negotiation and the Covid crisis. Not perfect but better than most government leaders. Mr. O'Toole is also pretty good but he lost my support when he promised to re-start the Northern Gateway pipeline.

 

 

Edited by Queenmandy85
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