Violence in LA erupts after viral video of complaint about trans woman disrobing in spa

[blackbird]

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

You know what the message is here?  It's that men are prone to rape and assault of women and children and will go to any lengths to do so.   If it's true that men are prone to sexually assault women and children, then women and children should never be in the company of men.  There is no safety in public places, if the over-reaction to this incident is anything to go by.  Sure, this happened in a SPA - but it could also have happened in a subway bathroom, or a restaurant bathroom.  After all, what's stopping a person with a penis - whatever they claim or how they are dressed - from following a woman into the bathroom to sexually assault her or even following a family into a washroom to rape a little girl.    

There are far more men in the world than transgendered women.  Therefore, the bigger threat is from men in society and not transgendered people.  Why aren't we doing something about that, hmm?  Why do all men in society get a pass for their 'natural urge to rape', but no transgender woman does?

The truth is not all men are rapists or perverts.  But definitely there are some who are.  Biological men who claim to be women and go into women's washrooms or change rooms is a problem to begin with.  Any biological male can claim to be a woman and go into women's facilities with ulterior motives.  I would not be happy if I had a daughter who happened to be in such a situation.

[Infidel Dog]

Here's some more on that story with some background on the issue of Antifa backing pedos.

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Michael Hardner]

On 7/4/2021 at 7:33 PM, bcsapper said:

Yeah, but should you be bashing the head of someone who disagrees with you in with a skateboard?

I think that that's a good point to get out of this.

[Michael Hardner]

Quote

1. If you have ever been a parent with small children changing in pool locker rooms for swim lessons then the issue becomes more than just a debate on web forums. 

2. ..this is an issue for many different people from a wide spectrum of social, political, and religious backgrounds.   I know from personal experience with a 6" 9", 320lb transgender woman in the workplace that most women did not want to permit "them" access to the female rest rooms or on-site locker room.

With notice, HR had to clear out the rest room and prevent other women from entering while "they" used the facilities.   "They" refused to limit their use to the existing unisex rest room in order to press the issue and agenda.

It got to the point where women would go the rest room in pairs or more to make sure they wouldn't have to deal with "them" alone.

1. Exactly.  Parenting on this topic has become more complicated of late.  How you want to educate your child on gender, and deal with nudity needs to be thought out a little.  I don't like second guessing parents, but to me - stumbling into a "Korean Day Spa" in LA with your child, then getting angry with the proprietor about it isn't the way.  Asking the government to micromanage it isn't either.  That said, the spa should have expected that this would come up someday.

2. In my day, the ladies dorm felt that way about lesbians too.  I don't get it, personally.  The government, and the employer only can do so much to reasonably make everyone "feel safe", since safety is a psychological concept.  If the trans person in your office is making themselves into a threatening presence somehow, they are a hazard to the workplace.  If the women who can't stand being in the same room with them are hysterical, then they are being nervous about nothing much.  It sounds like your workplace worked it out though.

[dialamah]

19 hours ago, Army Guy said:

So far we have defined this conversation as having to do with religion, political leanings, and rights of both parties...And lets not forget about sex" or the ability of a man to control himself when in the presence of a women...

1. Religion, I'm not sure if there is any religion that is comfortable with let say homosexual people or acts, maybe someone can correct me "but i don't know of any religion that condones homosexual acts or people" regardless of what the law says..

2. Political leanings, why this has even come up I'm not sure, but i do have to ask are the left much more comfortable with nudity or breaking of the social contract in this case . Canada is pretty much a leftist country, and if the left is much more free thinking about the human body why does this country still separate the sexes. Im pretty sure that even Canada's left is pretty much prudish as well, and not ready to have everyone parts swinging in the wind just yet... And yet european countries are years ahead of us in this topic, shared ,nudist spas is common place, And get this men have learned to control themselves in that environment. 

3. Social contracts has already been discussed here , i think it is pretty simple...

4. We talk about trans gender rights here, but what about all the other people in this story, their rights are discarded because of some special interest group who has a powerful lobby, and has convinced government into making laws to protect them...OK fine, but it seems the issue here is not protection, but someone taking it a step further....

Had my wife came out and describe what happened to me, that trans what ever they are would be bleeding in the lobby, and i would be charged with assault ... not because i am biases about trans anything, but because i don't think it was appropriate to have some guy wipe out his junk in front of my daughter or wife period... 

4a. Trans have been hurting their own fight for equality like in sports/ Olympics where men get to compete as an equal with women, or the guy in BC that wants his balls waxed by women.... in these cases Women's rights are being discarded to satisfy the whims of the few...

4b. Here is a question for you, why not have 4 change rooms built in every public establishment...and have every gender displayed on the doors, so there is no confusion... but that would cost money, it's alright to discard someone rights if it cost nothing, but once money comes into play hey, you with the dress your in the wrong change room.

I'm sure there is not many women out there want some guy who may think is a women showering/ or free to just strut around with nothing on,  with them at the pool/ gym/beach change rooms, i know around here our gym and pool the change / shower rooms are separated by sex, but the shower room is open,  it has shower heads along the wall in one open room, i know in the military it gets even more personal, in some cases the toilets do not have doors or stalls just a row of toilets in an open room. How does one address all of that, or do trans women just get to party on the boys side, and vice versa.... Our society is not built like that not is it ready...

5. Grouping ALL men in the rapist department is  a little over board. Most men do fine with keeping their junk in their pants until it has been agreed by both sexes it is party time...

 

2.  I've been to nude beaches in Canada and failed to see people with erect penises or any other signs of sexual arousal.  The only people I'd suspect had hard-ons were the men who'd sometimes show up, suits and jackets on, and wander down the beach staring.  So yeah, it is very possible for people of opposite genders to be sharing the same space, nude, and no sexual activity to be taking place - well, other than among the fully clothed.  ?

4a.  The stories you read about - even if accurately reported - do not describe the general behavior of transwomen.  I've known a few (one of whom was ex-Canadian military); they do not flaunt their penis (if they still have one).  What they do want is acceptance; the ability to be seen and treated as a woman.  That would include going into a spa.  (By the way, it was ultimately decided that estheticians do not have to wax male balls against their will, so in this case 'women's rights' were protected.)   

4b. Why not have genderless bathrooms?   I'm starting to see that, even in small-town BC; two bathrooms, both open to men/women/handicapped/other.  To me, that seems a much cheaper way to solve the issue of who must use which bathroom.  And, it's just like home. 

5.  Accusing all men of being rapists is exactly as overboard as the assumption that pre-surgical transwomen are lying so that they can access female spaces to spy on naked women, or to provoke them with their male genitalia.  Referring to transwomen as "some guy who may think is a women" or "male perverts pretending to me females" in virtually all the discussions I've seen shows that underlying belief.  Given that it's actually a requirement that a person live as their gender identity prior to having genital surgery, how are transwomen or transmen going to achieve that if they are refused entry, or beat up if they're "caught"?  If the transwoman in this story was simply trying to do that, and your wife complained, would you still beat her up?

Transpeople are having the same fight as gay people had in the past in Western countries, against the same people using the same arguments.  Think about that.  Transpeople in Western countries are having the same fight as gay people are having in other countries, against the same conservative, religious mindset and the same arguments.  That's just the way human rights are progressed, I guess.

[dialamah]

Here's a news article that provides information I didn't see in the linked articles, namely that the transwoman disrobed in the women's area; knowing this puts the situation in a slightly different light for me.  

The spa has a policy of trans-inclusiveness; is this policy well known and advertised?  If so, women attending should expect to see male genitalia, rather than being undone by such sightings.

If the spa did not make sure their inclusive policy was well-known, then the woman who was traumatized by seeing male genitalia has a valid complaint, in my opinion.  

Either way, I don't see it as the fault of the transwoman, but the responsibility of the spa to ensure everyone knows that male genitalia may be seen.  (Or, if there is a male-only area, that female genitalia may be seen.) People attending should be aware, and if they do not agree with that policy, they should enjoy a spa more in line with their comfort level.

The anxiety over genitalia is ridiculous, imo.  People showing up to scream about pedophiles because a penis was seen is simply hysteria.  People have dicks, tits, pussies.  Get over it.

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by dialamah

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

2.  I've been to nude beaches in Canada and failed to see people with erect penises or any other signs of sexual arousal.  The only people I'd suspect had hard-ons were the men who'd sometimes show up, suits and jackets on, and wander down the beach staring.  So yeah, it is very possible for people of opposite genders to be sharing the same space, nude, and no sexual activity to be taking place - well, other than among the fully clothed.  ?

4a.  The stories you read about - even if accurately reported - do not describe the general behavior of transwomen.  I've known a few (one of whom was ex-Canadian military); they do not flaunt their penis (if they still have one).  What they do want is acceptance; the ability to be seen and treated as a woman.  That would include going into a spa.  (By the way, it was ultimately decided that estheticians do not have to wax male balls against their will, so in this case 'women's rights' were protected.)   

4b. Why not have genderless bathrooms?   I'm starting to see that, even in small-town BC; two bathrooms, both open to men/women/handicapped/other.  To me, that seems a much cheaper way to solve the issue of who must use which bathroom.  And, it's just like home. 

5.  Accusing all men of being rapists is exactly as overboard as the assumption that pre-surgical transwomen are lying so that they can access female spaces to spy on naked women, or to provoke them with their male genitalia.  Referring to transwomen as "some guy who may think is a women" or "male perverts pretending to me females" in virtually all the discussions I've seen shows that underlying belief.  Given that it's actually a requirement that a person live as their gender identity prior to having genital surgery, how are transwomen or transmen going to achieve that if they are refused entry, or beat up if they're "caught"?  If the transwoman in this story was simply trying to do that, and your wife complained, would you still beat her up?

Transpeople are having the same fight as gay people had in the past in Western countries, against the same people using the same arguments.  Think about that.  Tran people in Western countries are having the same fight as gay people are having in other countries, against the same conservative, religious mindset and the same arguments.  That's just the way human rights are progressed, I guess.

1. My point here is one does not have to be a Religious Conservative to be uncomfortable with sharing the same change room with the opposite sex naked. Liberals and "I'm just guessing here" might have the same feelings, but with liberals one never knows. Here in Canada it is not normal practice to be comfortable with nudity in public. we are getting there " with thong bikini's  or those in those skin tight lulu lemon tights... god bless those inventors.. but not as opened minded as the Europeans are. 

4A. There are dozens of stories about trans women in sports, and from a mans point of view it really does not effect me, i do feel for these women however they have fought long and hard to get to where they are right now, in regards to equality, only in this instance to take a few steps backwards, because some man wants to be a women, or change his gender just to compete at a much higher level. 

I'm sure this is not about just having someone whip anything out, it is about acting like a normal person would, in this case changing in front of little girls or fully grown women, we already established that it is not normal practice to get fully naked here in Canada in share change rooms. Or has someone else pout it social contract of what is expected or what is the right thing to do... Why would it be wrong for him or she to dress or undress in the men's room... would it not be easier all the way around to just say if you pee standing up this is your dressing room, where you can whip it out when ever you want with out making a scene or attracting attention to ones self.  It would be the right thing to do,  But was it really part of the plan NOT to make a scene to press the point this is now the new norm... Now if a women was to do the same thing in the mens room , yes it would create a scene but not in the same way, be a lot of staring, but little complaints...

4B. Don't get me wrong as i have not been in many female bathrooms/ change rooms, but i think there are a lot of reasons why most common women do not want to share the same room. Cleanliness would be one, second would be smells having a man take a dump in any toilet is going to stress it's construction limits to the max, and no one wants to smell that, it is suppose to be a safe place, where you can do your personal acts, like taking a dump, scratching your balls or spend 15 mins gossiping, or man bashing.  women don't want to hear someone grunting and groaning trying to push out a large log of turd...Nor do i want to hear a some women do so, and ruin the perception i already have of women... women do not want to share the secret of why they go in pairs... lots of reasons...

5. while you may think it is the same , i don't share that thought, there are lots of weirdos in our society that would try anything it is one of the reasons i also stand out side the door if my wife and daughters go into the rest rooms , and if you look like a man your going to get stopped, until they come out, "sorry" thats just me being protective. I'm not looking for confrontation, but i am prepared for it.

There may be a requirement to live as a women, but why attract attention to yourself, when it is something new to you...I've been to a large rock bar, when a guy dress up as a girl, shared the pisser beside me...YUP he attracted a lot of attention, even got a WTF out of me, he smiled i sort of smiled back and that was the end of that but she peed standing up and there fore made the right choice... 

If the trans women had just whipped out his junk in front of wife and daughters in a change room then yes, there is going to be a confrontation, and I'm not sure how i would react if it was any other way. There are family change rooms at our gym so parents can help children get in and out of their cloths but those are normally in stalls with doors... that would be fine arrangement with me...

For me I'm old school, there are two genders, and 3 sexual preferences hetro sexual, bisexual, or homosexual, the new generation can identify themselves any way they want, but if they see me standing out side the women's bathroom waiting, and you look like a man, I'm going to ask some questions, and your going to have to wait to gain entry or go to the other change room . and if your not sure which dress or change room to be in, then ask your self this do I pee standing up, or sitting down ?  Any other time i have no issues with anyone, regardless of race, color, creed, sexual preface,  you do you and i'll do me...But if while you are doing you and it interferes with me doing me, we are going to have a talk.  

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Here's a news article that provides information I didn't see in the linked articles, namely that the transwoman disrobed in the women's area; knowing this puts the situation in a slightly different light for me.  

1. The spa has a policy of trans-inclusiveness; is this policy well known and advertised?  If so, women attending should expect to see male genitalia, rather than being undone by such sightings.

. If the spa did not make sure their inclusive policy was well-known, then the woman who was traumatized by seeing male genitalia has a valid complaint, in my opinion.  

2. Either way, I don't see it as the fault of the transwoman, but the responsibility of the spa to ensure everyone knows that male genitalia may be seen.  (Or, if there is a male-only area, that female genitalia may be seen.) People attending should be aware, and if they do not agree with that policy, they should enjoy a spa more in line with their comfort level.

3. The anxiety over genitalia is ridiculous, imo.  People showing up to scream about pedophiles because a penis was seen is simply hysteria.  People have dicks, tits, pussies.  Get over it.

 

1, Was it posted , or was every customer made aware before entry , myself it think it was done to make a point or create attention good or bad. 

2. If it was done to provoke a response then i say she or he is responsible.

3. It is a pretty normal response, consider we live in North America, while we are all well aware of genitalia exists, we still have ratings for the ages, we still limit children or soon to be adults access to this knowledge of things like porn, strippers, hookers, adult stuff... I'm not even sure it is taught in schools any more. in Europe most beaches are topless, with full nudity of to the sides of each beach... no big deal, why we have not followed this practice of becoming more comfortable with our naked bodies  I'm not sure.

[Michael Hardner]

Is this the same incident ?

https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/07/wi-spa-la-transphobic-protest.html

[dialamah]

On 7/19/2021 at 12:44 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Is this the same incident ?

https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/07/wi-spa-la-transphobic-protest.html

Police suspect a hoax after failing to find witnesses who saw a trans woman at the spa, and that Wi Spa claims none of their trans clients had scheduled appointments that day.

I also wondered about children being at a spa, guess I wasn't wrong.