UK preparing measures from mandatory masks to social distanciation for 5 years

[taxme]

21 hours ago, Winston said:

 

There tends to be few loud extremists, however most of the vaccinated are respectful of personal choice. I do agree that If these loud extremists are constantly presented as the social norm, we may begin to see the unvaccinated labelled as the untouchables or worse. Fascist ideologies have no place in our system. 

I think social pressures towards vaccinations are reasonable, people can have their opinion. Legal or governmental pressures are not. 

Although I think the objective of total vaccination is one of sustainability, not enough information or concern is presented to the hesitant unvaccinated.

How could the unvaccinated be motivated to receive the vaccine? What evidence or compensation would be required to ensure safety?     

 

What I am fearing abut taking these covid vaccines is that they are all experimental and we have no idea as to what they will do to our bodies in the near future. There has been many stories about some people who took the covid vaccine and ended up becoming seriously ill and some have even died after taken some covid vaccines.

Why does the MSM not report on many of these vaccine incidents? What or why are they trying to hide about covid vaccine incidents? If these vaccines are supposed to be safe than why are they trying to hush up anyone who dares to question these covid vaccines where on many of those social media outlets like Twitter, Fakebook and Goggle are trying to do today?

Why do they say that anyone who wishes to discuss the dangerous of these vaccines on social media platforms are being treated as trying to promote mis and disinformation nonsense and they have been banned for doing so.

There is something wrong with this covid vaccine picture alright. ?

[Winston]

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

My response was clearly about the safety of vaccines. I suggest you read my post again.

If your goal is to convince people to receive the vaccination, no one is going to take your opinion/anecdote as evidence of safety, you must provide scientific evidence to support such a claim.

 

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Because everybody who dies after receiving vaccines, their family will be crying fool and demand millions of dollars in compensation even though overwhelming majority of them would have died anyways of natural causes but many relatives would be suing vaccine manufacturing companies and they may have to pay billions in compensation and they go bankrupt so no one dares to do research and manufacture vaccines and save lives in future anymore.  Deaths directly related to vaccines are very very rare and the risk is by far far less than covid virus.

Your Statement suggests, public health is not your concern, instead corporate wellbeing and future profitability is your concern. This counters your original point that we must hold paramount public health. Why would anyone take medical advice from someone who cares about corporate wellbeing over the health of individuals?

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

People would have still bought tickets to fly even without compensation. So how did you expect them to travel between continents? Walk? Drive or riding horses? But that is a totally unrelated example.

I did not mention death, I mentioned “causing harm” in my analogy.  If a heart attack was brought about by the plane crash post trauma or post complications to injuries and there is supporting evidence, they can most certainly sue. There is a statute of limitations to which a party can sue, in some cases up to 15 years. At some point long term side effects of vaccinations will be determined and such lawsuits may become unnecessary or unlikely. 

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

In the case of vaccines there is NO CLEAR line. Anyone dying of anything after receiving vaccines can claim that it was the vaccine which killed them and demand billions.

Absolutely, and the burden of proof would be on anyone claiming the vaccine harmed/killed them. This is common practice for a variety of professional industries. What makes a professional is in part their ability to be held legally accountable for their actions or inactions.  A clear line can be drawn, statute of limitations would be placed at 10 years. Supporting medical evidence would be required for a civil lawsuit.

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I told you, freedom and right to choose in the past have caused sufferings and many death. For the same reason that we banned drunk driving and smoking in public places after millions of innocents died from them. YOUR RIGHTS END WHEN YOU INFRINGE UPON OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO SAFETY ANF GOOD HEALTH. You have no right to become a carrier of the virus and a factory for its mutation and then present yourself in public places and breath or cough in the same air and then infect others and kill some because you feel it is your right to refuse vaccines.

Where is the evidence for such an argument? You can hold an opinion, but it holds no validity without evidence.

Using your ideology, we should remove all rights to wealth, food and resources from all individuals in order to preserve life and health around the world. Children dying in Africa are suffering because of you, thus your rights do not matter, everything beyond your basic health should be removed to help those poor kids in Africa from dying. ( not an argument I would make)

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

For the same reason that we banned drunk driving and smoking in the public we should restrict unvaccinated people in sensitive public places like health organizations, schools, long term or elderly care facilities and places where vulnerable people may be.

Both these examples are about action, not inaction. Drunk driving has evidence and statistical data that argues driving while impaired may result in a crash. Smoking in public has evidence supporting second hand smoke. Neither of these examples ban people from smoking or from becoming impaired. Where is the evidence to support restrictions on the unvaccinated?

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

There is no compromise. People who refuse vaccines must have a lot of restrictions placed in front of them for the sake of health and safety of others.

 Why? You still have yet to provide an argument as to why one person's health matters over another's? 

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Winston said:

If your goal is to convince people to receive the vaccination, no one is going to take your opinion/anecdote as evidence of safety, you must provide scientific evidence to support such a claim.

 

Your Statement suggests, public health is not your concern, instead corporate wellbeing and future profitability is your concern. This counters your original point that we must hold paramount public health. Why would anyone take medical advice from someone who cares about corporate wellbeing over the health of individuals?

I did not mention death, I mentioned “causing harm” in my analogy.  If a heart attack was brought about by the plane crash post trauma or post complications to injuries and there is supporting evidence, they can most certainly sue. There is a statute of limitations to which a party can sue, in some cases up to 15 years. At some point long term side effects of vaccinations will be determined and such lawsuits may become unnecessary or unlikely. 

Absolutely, and the burden of proof would be on anyone claiming the vaccine harmed/killed them. This is common practice for a variety of professional industries. What makes a professional is in part their ability to be held legally accountable for their actions or inactions.  A clear line can be drawn, statute of limitations would be placed at 10 years. Supporting medical evidence would be required for a civil lawsuit.

Where is the evidence for such an argument? You can hold an opinion, but it holds no validity without evidence.

Using your ideology, we should remove all rights to wealth, food and resources from all individuals in order to preserve life and health around the world. Children dying in Africa are suffering because of you, thus your rights do not matter, everything beyond your basic health should be removed to help those poor kids in Africa from dying. ( not an argument I would make)

Both these examples are about action, not inaction. Drunk driving has evidence and statistical data that argues driving while impaired may result in a crash. Smoking in public has evidence supporting second hand smoke. Neither of these examples ban people from smoking or from becoming impaired. Where is the evidence to support restrictions on the unvaccinated?

 Why? You still have yet to provide an argument as to why one person's health matters over another's? 

Scientific evidence about what? Scientific evidence that covid has killed millions or are you claiming that covid is hoax like your friend taxman do? Scientific evidence that vaccines are effective?? There is so much data that in highly vaccinated population rate of hospitalization and death from covid has come down significantly. Scientific evedence about it safety? There are tens of thousands of data over many months that few side effects and no death. A death in a million was reported in mass vaccination.

I have had it with illogical unscientific comments. I am done with this thread.

[Winston]

6 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Scientific evidence about what? Scientific evidence that covid has killed millions or are you claiming that covid is hoax like your friend taxman do? Scientific evidence that vaccines are effective?? There is so much data that in highly vaccinated population rate of hospitalization and death from covid has come down significantly. Scientific evedence about it safety? There are tens of thousands of data over many months that few side effects and no death. A death in a million was reported in mass vaccination.

I have had it with illogical unscientific comments. I am done with this thread.

I have no affiliation with "taxman". Covid has potentially (depends on the definition of a covid death) killed millions. Currently 26 539 deaths covid related have been recorded in Canada. Vaccines can and are effective in most cases.

I am not convinced that covid related deaths has come down, is there evidence of such? ( genuinely asking, based on the logarithmic chart there does appear to be a consistent death rate, one would expect a decrease with the introduction of the vaccine).

Yes, evidence such as scientific studies on the long term effects of the covid vaccine would be appreciated. Scientific studies on the health effects related to the covid vaccination. If no studies are currently available its best to wait until such studies occur. Once many of these studies provide a testable conclusion, an informed decision can be made. 

CITIZEN_2015 I am not sure why you say these are illogical unscientific comments? Coming from a back round in several scientific fields, I am confident these questions need to be addressed. Science welcomes many questions, it is how science works, we start with a question. As a scientist I would welcome any questions about my research as silly or incorrect as they may be. These questions would only prove my theory or disprove my theory. Either way lessons are learned, new theories are created. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Winston

[Winston]

10 hours ago, taxme said:

What I am fearing abut taking these covid vaccines is that they are all experimental and we have no idea as to what they will do to our bodies in the near future. There has been many stories about some people who took the covid vaccine and ended up becoming seriously ill and some have even died after taken some covid vaccines.

Why does the MSM not report on many of these vaccine incidents? What or why are they trying to hide about covid vaccine incidents? If these vaccines are supposed to be safe than why are they trying to hush up anyone who dares to question these covid vaccines where on many of those social media outlets like Twitter, Fakebook and Goggle are trying to do today?

Why do they say that anyone who wishes to discuss the dangerous of these vaccines on social media platforms are being treated as trying to promote mis and disinformation nonsense and they have been banned for doing so.

There is something wrong with this covid vaccine picture alright. ?

 

These incidents are anecdotal, but are these incidents reported? If a large number of these incidents occurs, multiple studies should be conducted to verify the safety of the vaccines. 

I have often wondered how many covid infections actually occur, but without testing? Most of the symptoms are mild and possibly go unnoticed in the younger generation. 

Are there any outlets that provide both opinions in a constructive scientific manner? 

Which is why I wish there was an open dialog between ( none extremist ) pro vaccination individuals and pro choice vaccination individuals. I am pro vaccination, however I understand concerns must be addressed and companies need to be held liable for unprofessional or unreliable products. 

 

 

[taxme]

On 7/20/2021 at 7:42 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So according to this madman some 80% of Canada's population will die from serious injury due to vaccination within two years. No wait it will be 80% of world population. End of the world is coming. I always thought according to  fictitious movies that it would be super flu or  alien takeover from other planets or sun explosion but vaccines ending the world!!!! Taxman just made a new movie of that? No limit to madness, Seriously.

We will see as to who has the last laugh. I am not predicting that 80% of Canada's population will die in the next couple of years. But from what I amreading and listening to out there, many millions are going to get seriously ill or will die. You may become seriously ill or may even die yourself very soon. Hey, we never know, eh? Let me know if any of them happen to you. Lol. 

I will bet that because of your ignorance you did not know that there is a toxic chemical called graphene oxide that has been put in the covid vaccines. If that truly is the case then you are a goner, fella. 

Many airline pilots of major airlines, like British Airways and Jet Blue have had many of their pilots die months later after taking one of those covid vaccine jabs. The likely hood that many pilots are just dying after taking a covid vaccine cannot be seen as just a coincidence. Many other airlines are having their pilots drop dead after taking a covid vaccine.

But you will not hear about this other than on some alternative news websites like Stew Peters website because the corporate globalist controlled MSM does not want anyone to know about these deaths. You do not have to believe me but it's on the internet for you to check out for yourself if you so choose.

Whether it is all just bull shit or not, I don't really know, I am just posting the story here. Why would stories like this be out there on the internet in the first place if they were not true? What would be the point to doing so? 

There are many doctors and scientists and even whistle blowers that are trying to tell us that these covid vaccines are going to become a nightmare for many guinea pigs who took the experimental gene therapy globalist created vaccines. 

Good luck to you, guinea pig. ?

[taxme]

10 hours ago, Winston said:

 

These incidents are anecdotal, but are these incidents reported? If a large number of these incidents occurs, multiple studies should be conducted to verify the safety of the vaccines. 

I have often wondered how many covid infections actually occur, but without testing? Most of the symptoms are mild and possibly go unnoticed in the younger generation. 

Are there any outlets that provide both opinions in a constructive scientific manner? 

Which is why I wish there was an open dialog between ( none extremist ) pro vaccination individuals and pro choice vaccination individuals. I am pro vaccination, however I understand concerns must be addressed and companies need to be held liable for unprofessional or unreliable products. 

 

 

Whether anecdotal or not, I am going to go by what other alternative doctors and scientists and even some whistle blowers has to say about these covid vaccines and that they could be very dangerous to some peoples health and well being for those who choose to take the jab from one of these vaccines. It has been my choice for as long as I have lived to not take any vaccines. That was my choice and so far so good. I am still alive and I do not have any plans anytime soon to take any of these covid experimental gene therapy vaccines. 

I have even read that in some or all of those covid vaccines is a chemical called graphene oxide a toxic poison to the human body. True or false, I do not know. I just want to live and not sign my own death warrant by taking any of these covid vaccines for now. 

Everyone must realize that there are always two sides to every story. Sadly, most people just want to listen to one side of the story and not the other. To know one side of the story is to know nothing at all. Just because you say that you believe in vaccines does not have to mean that I must believe in vaccines. 

When I am now hearing stories about some people who have been seriously injured or got sick or even have died after taking the covid jab, that was a wake up call for me. Hey, good luck to you all who took the jab. I hope all goes well for you. My son and daughter in law took the jab and I am now scared of what could happen to them. I will be watching their health for awhile. 

I have heard of many airline pilots that have been dropping dead shortly after they took the jab. it's on the internet for all to read. If it were all just lies than what would be the reason or the point for anyone to post such things on the internet and only end up making telling lies and especially trying to make buffoons of themselves? Hey, we never know, eh? 

I believe in conspiracies because conspiracies do happen every day around the world. Personally, I believe that this whole covid thingy has been nothing but a planned plandemic from the start by the big pharma globalists who stand to make hundreds of billions of dollars from peddling their covid vaccines. The wealth of many billionaires, like bill Gates to hell, today has risen quite substantial thanks to this covid what I like to call one big covid hoax. 

Now the big pharma globalist billionaires are going to make many more billions because of this brand new lie and hoax from this brand new virus called the Delta virus. Sadly, many are already in a state of panic and fear and will be talked into and line up to take their booster covid Delta shot to save their lives from this Delta virus. I am pretty sure that this will happen. Just saying. Hey, we never know, eh? ? 

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

The woman also baselessly claimed the compound would cause an inflammatory immune reaction called a cytokine storm in people who got the vaccine

In reality, there’s no graphene oxide in the Pfizer vaccine, according to the ingredient list and Kit Longley, senior manager of science media relations at Pfizer.

There’s also no evidence to suggest the Pfizer vaccine would cause a cytokine storm, Longley said. The coronavirus itself, however, has caused this type of immune response in some patients.

Chemical and medical experts who are not associated with Pfizer confirmed to The Associated Press that there is no way graphene oxide would be found in the vaccine.

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-does-not-contain-graphene-oxide-experts-say.html

Those who are spreading rumors like the woman in the link in social media causing vaccine hesitancy should be jailed and keys thrown away for causing serious harm and deaths,

Edited July 24, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Winston]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

I have even read that in some or all of those covid vaccines is a chemical called graphene oxide a toxic poison to the human body. True or false, I do not know. I just want to live and not sign my own death warrant by taking any of these covid vaccines for now. 

 I looked into this claim, however there is no verifiable study to support this claim. According to the article, the individual received a vial from an unknown source and that the results were inconclusive. I am not convinced there is any evidence to support such a claim.

A simple microscope test of several vaccine solutions would determine if the claim is verifiable. If the vaccine contained a high percentage of graphene oxide (carbon oxygen structures) the solution may be tinted or dark. The vaccine solution is a clear liquid. 

I would say avoiding unverifiable claims is imperative. The entire point is to question the vaccines long term safety. 

 

[Winston]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

 

Those who are spreading rumors like the woman in the link in social media causing vaccine hesitancy should be jailed and keys thrown away for causing serious harm and deaths,

If the goal is to convince people her statements are incorrect, the opposite should occur. Instead the woman's rumor should be presented to the public, but with supporting evidence and a strong argument opposing her comment. This provides the public with a solid argument against false statement. Censoring peoples comments or opinions leads to public distrust of the authorities. 

Governing bodies must be transparent with the population if they expect the population to follow their leadership.

Prison is not necessary, and potentially unethical for such a trivial problem. There are no laws against this as far as I am aware. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

No I don't have the power to jail people who cause harm (including the use of capital punishment on those who harm women and children and mass murderers), or make vaccine mandatory but I do have the power to refuse an unvaccinated server in a restaurant or bank or house cleaner or repairer or mover (I will ask) or boycott a business I deal with if its employees who serve me are not fully vaccinated and disobey precautions or wearing mask any future lockdowns which based on all currently available data and scientific evidence will be caused by unvaccinated people. This is likely the best way to push those people who refuse the jab if enough of us do this as I am sure they will take the right step when they face losing their jobs and businesses. They are the cause that we would be losing our jobs and businesses in future pandemics after all.

When governments are not doing their jobs by making vaccines mandatory or issue vaccine certificates without which unvaccinated people will be refused service, business, travel, entry to a public place then we need to step in and do the job for them. Boycott those who refuse vaccines.

Edited July 24, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[taxme]

22 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The woman also baselessly claimed the compound would cause an inflammatory immune reaction called a cytokine storm in people who got the vaccine

In reality, there’s no graphene oxide in the Pfizer vaccine, according to the ingredient list and Kit Longley, senior manager of science media relations at Pfizer.

There’s also no evidence to suggest the Pfizer vaccine would cause a cytokine storm, Longley said. The coronavirus itself, however, has caused this type of immune response in some patients.

Chemical and medical experts who are not associated with Pfizer confirmed to The Associated Press that there is no way graphene oxide would be found in the vaccine.

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-does-not-contain-graphene-oxide-experts-say.html

Those who are spreading rumors like the woman in the link in social media causing vaccine hesitancy should be jailed and keys thrown away for causing serious harm and deaths,

Why would big pharma want to inform anyone that there is this graphene oxide chemical toxic poison in any vaccines? They wouldn't be that stupid, would they? Your constant support for all of these covid vaccines make people like you responsible for the many injuries and deaths of thousands of people by your trying to convince people that these covid vaccines are safe which they are not. In lab tests that had been done on animals with these covid vaccines all of those animals died. Yup, sure looks like the covid vaccines are safe alright.

Pretty soon you will be asked that, to be on the safe side, you will need to take another booster jab to make sure that you will never die from covid. I do hope that you take your third jab. That should do it for you. Bye-bye. ?

[CITIZEN_2015]

12 minutes ago, taxme said:

 Your constant support for all of these covid vaccines make people like you responsible for the many injuries and deaths of thousands of people by your trying to convince people that these covid vaccines are safe which they are not. In lab tests that had been done on animals with these covid vaccines all of those animals died. Yup, sure looks like the covid vaccines are safe alright.

Pretty soon you will be asked that, to be on the safe side, you will need to take another booster jab to make sure that you will never die from covid. I do hope that you take your third jab. That should do it for you. Bye-bye. ?

No it will be your constant lies and spread of false rumors that will cause millions of deaths in vaccine hesitant population in the next months and years and people like you will be responsible for these unnecessary deaths by pitting fictitious fears in their hearts by these false baseless claims.

I will take the third jab as soon as they are available and I am eligible that they will be adjusted for mutated variants that people like you created.

[taxme]

21 hours ago, Winston said:

 I looked into this claim, however there is no verifiable study to support this claim. According to the article, the individual received a vial from an unknown source and that the results were inconclusive. I am not convinced there is any evidence to support such a claim.

A simple microscope test of several vaccine solutions would determine if the claim is verifiable. If the vaccine contained a high percentage of graphene oxide (carbon oxygen structures) the solution may be tinted or dark. The vaccine solution is a clear liquid. 

I would say avoiding unverifiable claims is imperative. The entire point is to question the vaccines long term safety. 

 

True enough. But then again, if it were true the MSM would never report that there was a toxic chemical in some or all of those covid vaccines anyway. After all, the MSM is pretty much controlled and owned and operated by big pharma corporate globalists. Do you really trust that gang of liars and vaccine pushers? Hey, we never know, eh. 

For now, I will trust my instincts and fore go taking any vaccines and have any of them jabbed into my beautiful body. What I will be waiting to see is, if true, there may be many people dropping off the face of the earth in the next few years or many may just end up becoming seriously injured. We must wait and see. I will be watching the world's population in the next few years. That will then tell me as top whether all that I am hearing and reading about these dangerous vaccines is true or not.  

One should ask the question as to why so many doctors and scientists and other professionals are questioning the efficacy of these covid vaccines. What would be the point of them trying to do so if the vaccines are safe? And if the covid vaccines are so safe, why then do they have to try and convince people to take their covid vaccines? Just let those that want to take their two or three jabs do so and leave others who do not want the jab bloody well alone. 

Works for me. ?

[taxme]

20 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No it will be your constant lies and spread of false rumors that will cause millions of deaths in vaccine hesitant population in the next months and years and people like you will be responsible for these unnecessary deaths by pitting fictitious fears in their hearts by these false baseless claims.

I will take the third jab as soon as they are available and I am eligible that they will be adjusted for mutated variants that people like you created.

Hey, citizen of 1984. Look up in the sky right now. The sky is starting to fall down. I suggest to you that you do not go outside anytime soon until the covid vaccine pushers tell you that it is once again safe to go outside and play. And if you do go outside make sure that you wear a hard hat anyway just in case there may be a few pieces left in the sky to fall. Just saying. ?

 

[taxme]

21 hours ago, Winston said:

If the goal is to convince people her statements are incorrect, the opposite should occur. Instead the woman's rumor should be presented to the public, but with supporting evidence and a strong argument opposing her comment. This provides the public with a solid argument against false statement. Censoring peoples comments or opinions leads to public distrust of the authorities. 

Governing bodies must be transparent with the population if they expect the population to follow their leadership.

Prison is not necessary, and potentially unethical for such a trivial problem. There are no laws against this as far as I am aware. 

Are you not aware that in today's world social media will not allow any one person a chance to express their opinions and to be able to have their say on social media in regards to these covid vaccines? Those communist globalists that run social media and the MSM itself will not allow her or anyone else to give the other side of the story about some of the dangers of these covid vaccines. Everything is now mis and disinformation being put forward by the communist globalists social media giants who run those social media platforms and who are denying people who have an opposite opinion to vaccines to have a say and instead they all must be chilled.

C'mon man, we are all losing our rights to our freedom of speech. the only TV outlet left that at least tries to tell the truth about all of this covid bull shit nonsense is FOX NEWS. One can learn a lot by listening to FOX NEWS in the evenings. Tucker Carlson and Dan Bongino are but one of many who hosts that try and get the real and true facts out.

We will never get politicians or the MSM to tell us the truth about anything. just lies and bull shit is all we get. just saying. ?