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Trudeau vows help after Indigenous kids' unmarked graves found, but offers no details


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9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Probably.

One can understand that educating Aboriginal kids was for their welfare; even the aboriginals at the time agreed that having kids able to function in the white world was advantageous for them.

I was about to click 'like' on your post when I read this. 

Quote

But the way in which it was done, the lack of care and oversight, even when it was pointed out to the government, the cruelty that was overlooked and even deliberately hidden - that cannot be ignored because they meant well.  Even today, parents who beat their kids to discipline then can claim they "meant well", but they don't get a  pass based on their "good intentions" if the kid dies.  

To be fair, it wasn't like the world of today, where a kid could call the cops on their phone and get an investigation started right away with forensic evidence collected. Also, not every kid or even every school experienced sexual predation. Let's not get carried away.

If a kid really tried to get a message to the police back in 1919 it would be later in the day, or week, and as we all know most of these crimes even go unreported.

If a report does get filed it's more of a he said she said than anything, and you know as well as anyone that people don't even agree on what they see with their own eyes on the news.

Re: Rayshard, I saw extremely polite and patient officers in a position where they had no choice but to arrest him get punched, have a taser stolen, have the first of 2 rounds in that potentially lethal taser shot at the cop's face from close up, and the cop return fire.

Leftists saw a guy who fell asleep in his car get shot while he was just running away from oppressive racists. They saw a non-lethal taser, as if there is such a thing. 

Keep in mind those are contradictory accounts of what people saw from the exact same POV with their own eyes. 

 

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In 50+ years, the 'new woke' folks will be looking back at the 'right now' folks of to-day, and slamming, condemning, dis-avowing everything done to-day. Get your 'victim resume' up to date . . . . learn how to cry on cue, be the 'self-righteous whiner' that others see . . . . . .BE THE VICTIM.  The Government owes/owns you. 

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1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

In 50+ years, the 'new woke' folks will be looking back at the 'right now' folks of to-day, and slamming, condemning, dis-avowing everything done to-day. Get your 'victim resume' up to date . . . . learn how to cry on cue, be the 'self-righteous whiner' that others see . . . . . .BE THE VICTIM.  The Government owes/owns you. 

"Woke folks"; hahaha!  The newest 'right wing' insult tossed out to dismiss any idea with which they disagree.  Especially if that idea involves treating all people with compassion, respect and dignity.

 

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5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

"Woke folks"; hahaha!  The newest 'right wing' insult tossed out to dismiss any idea with which they disagree.  Especially if that idea involves treating all people with compassion, respect and dignity.

 

Are you and Cougar one and the same?  Brother and sister?  Twins separated at birth?  My quoted post has nothing whatsoever to do with disrespect or lack of compassion, respect or dignity.  Thin skin?

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Probably.

One can understand that educating Aboriginal kids was for their welfare; even the aboriginals at the time agreed that having kids able to function in the white world was advantageous for them.

But the way in which it was done, the lack of care and oversight, even when it was pointed out to the government, the cruelty that was overlooked and even deliberately hidden - that cannot be ignored because they meant well.  Even today, parents who beat their kids to discipline then can claim they "meant well", but they don't get a  pass based on their "good intentions" if the kid dies.  

Well let’s see what investigators learn about cause of death.  I can say for certain that abuse took place, but it wasn’t directed by government or religious orders, except perhaps as the corporal punishment that was standard discipline at that time.  Death is upsetting, but the existence of gravesites doesn’t tell us much apart from the fact that a greater percentage of children died than die today.  The separation from parents in remote areas that derived from mandatory education is sad if the families didn’t want it, but I’m sure some Indigenous thought it was worth doing.  It’s hard to speak for people who are no longer here.

I do know a few people who taught or practiced medicine on or near reserves in Northern Ontario.  They’re not upbeat stories.  Getting students to attend and participate in school was a battle.  Addiction and mental health problems abounded.  It’s easy to blame it all on colonialism or mistreatment by the white man, yet these friends didn’t have to work in these conditions.  They did it to help and to learn more about the people they were serving.  I wonder if that side of the story is getting enough attention, because some of the educators of Indigenous, yes even in residential schools, were genuinely trying to help and do good work.  Yes there were cultural and other losses, yet there were gains too.  Most people do their best with what they know.  When we know better, we do better.  

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11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1.  Well let’s see what investigators learn about cause of death.  

2.  I can say for certain that abuse took place, but it wasn’t directed by government or religious orders, except perhaps as the corporal punishment that was standard discipline at that time.

3.  Death is upsetting, but the existence of gravesites doesn’t tell us much apart from the fact that a greater percentage of children died than die today.  

4. The separation from parents in remote areas that derived from mandatory education is sad if the families didn’t want it, but I’m sure some Indigenous thought it was worth doing.  It’s hard to speak for people who are no longer here.

5. I do know a few people who taught or practiced medicine on or near reserves in Northern Ontario.  They’re not upbeat stories.  Getting students to attend and participate in school was a battle.  Addiction and mental health problems abounded.  It’s easy to blame it all on colonialism or mistreatment by the white man, yet these friends didn’t have to work in these conditions.  

6. They did it to help and to learn more about the people they were serving.  I wonder if that side of the story is getting enough attention, because some of the educators of Indigenous, yes even in residential schools, were genuinely trying to help and do good work.  

7.  Yes there were cultural and other losses, yet there were gains too.  Most people do their best with what they know.  

8.  When we know better, we do better.  

1.  If they can determine it after this length of time, it will likely be tuberculosis/malnutrition for the majority.

2. You are three or four or even six or ten years old.  You go to a strange place, where, if you speak your language that you learned at home, you are slapped - at the very least, beaten and put into solitary confinement at worst.  If you go sleep with your sister because you are scared, cold and lonely, you will be removed, beaten and put in bed with the girl who is so terrified she wets herself regularly.  You lay in bed at night, waiting to see who the nun/priest will pick for their entertainment tonite and desperately hoping it won't be you.  You work in the fields/barns or the kitchen and laundry for part of the day, and get 'educated' for the other part of the day.  There's never enough to eat, and what there is may have worms, or bugs.  

I understand that corporal punishment was common and accepted, but what went on was not corporal punishment - it was abuse, plain and simple.  Anyone who thought otherwise then, or now, is simply excusing it.

3.  The children in residential schools died at a significantly higher rate than other kids, even for the day.  25% of those in one school died; 67% of the 'graduates' of that same school died shortly after 'graduation'.

4.  While it's true, in some cases, that the parents supported the schools and voluntarily took their kids, it was equally true that children were taken from their parents under severe protest - screaming, crying, being handcuffed, put into a truck bed with dozens of other kids, transported like cattle to the farthest residential school.  Parents tried to hide their children from the Indian Agent and the RCMP.  Sometimes they succeeded, but mostly they didn't.  Their livelihood and other family members were threatened if they didn't give up their kids.  They weren't just 'taken', they were forcibly removed under great protest.  My understanding is that when parents took their kids voluntarily, it was to a school in their neighborhood, on or close to their reserve, not to one hundreds of miles away.  They weren't opposed to their kids being educated; they were opposed to their kids being removed from them, abused and dying.

5.  No they're not.  Consider that a boy/girl is taken to a residential school when he/she is six years old.  They are abused and starved; no sexual abuse necessary.  They are told for years how savage/sinful/terrible they are.  They graduate 10 or 11 years later, after all of this abuse has been internalized, go back 'home'.  But now all they see are people to be ashamed of; they are strangers to their family.  They try to go live in the white world, but all they get is rejection because people still consider them savages.  They numb their pain with alcohol, and as people do - get together and make babies.  Those babies, if they are allowed to keep them, are raised by people who know nothing of parenting and are self-medicating their pain and shame with alcohol and drugs.  That's what they learn, each generation.  What your friends found was part of the legacy of residential schools.

6.  I commend them.  But why should this get more attention than the conditions under which close to 150,000 children were raised?    Is that some sort of consolation prize for these kids - there are nice people who really cared, so please don't complain that things were so bad for you?

7.  What, exactly, were the gains for the First Nations people?  

8.  Yes, let's do better.  Let's acknowledge what happened to these people, how it still affects them.  Let's discuss how we can move forward to mitigate the damage to their culture and society caused by our ill-advised "education" program.  Let's not diminish what happened to them by pointing out how it was 'well-intentioned', and that 'some weren't abused' and that 'they benefited from the great white culture'.   Let's actually hear and understand and stop trying to excuse it away.  

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

"Woke folks"; hahaha!  The newest 'right wing' insult tossed out to dismiss any idea with which they disagree.  Especially if that idea involves treating all people with compassion, respect and dignity.

I think we'd all agree that the very dumbest of leftists identify as 'woke', and that they're a little too powerful and they're getting too many of their idiotic ideas turned into law.

Biological males can compete with females now, thanks to the presidolt, which isn't that much different from allowing some men to take steroids and compete against men who aren't allowed to take steroids.

Will grown men soon be allowed to say "I still identify as a scrawny teen, even though I weigh 275 lbs with a BMI of 7%, so I want to be allowed to play on a grade 9 football team"? By leftist standards, that makes perfect sense.

Woke people say stupid things like "all women need to be believed" and then when a conservative woman accuses a liberal of rape she's instantly considered a lying douchebag.

There's a school in NYC that wants kids to stop saying "mom" and "dad", but at the same time wokies want to tell us what words we have to use to describe them. 

Leftists block the truth from FB and call the people who try to tell the truth racists. 

"Woke" literally means idiot now, just like phat and dope mean "cool".

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

1.  If they can determine it after this length of time, it will likely be tuberculosis/malnutrition for the majority.

2. You are three or four or even six or ten years old.  You go to a strange place, where, if you speak your language that you learned at home, you are slapped - at the very least, beaten and put into solitary confinement at worst.  If you go sleep with your sister because you are scared, cold and lonely, you will be removed, beaten and put in bed with the girl who is so terrified she wets herself regularly.  You lay in bed at night, waiting to see who the nun/priest will pick for their entertainment tonite and desperately hoping it won't be you.  You work in the fields/barns or the kitchen and laundry for part of the day, and get 'educated' for the other part of the day.  There's never enough to eat, and what there is may have worms, or bugs.  

I understand that corporal punishment was common and accepted, but what went on was not corporal punishment - it was abuse, plain and simple.  Anyone who thought otherwise then, or now, is simply excusing it.

3.  The children in residential schools died at a significantly higher rate than other kids, even for the day.  25% of those in one school died; 67% of the 'graduates' of that same school died shortly after 'graduation'.

4.  While it's true, in some cases, that the parents supported the schools and voluntarily took their kids, it was equally true that children were taken from their parents under severe protest - screaming, crying, being handcuffed, put into a truck bed with dozens of other kids, transported like cattle to the farthest residential school.  Parents tried to hide their children from the Indian Agent and the RCMP.  Sometimes they succeeded, but mostly they didn't.  Their livelihood and other family members were threatened if they didn't give up their kids.  They weren't just 'taken', they were forcibly removed under great protest.  My understanding is that when parents took their kids voluntarily, it was to a school in their neighborhood, on or close to their reserve, not to one hundreds of miles away.  They weren't opposed to their kids being educated; they were opposed to their kids being removed from them, abused and dying.

5.  No they're not.  Consider that a boy/girl is taken to a residential school when he/she is six years old.  They are abused and starved; no sexual abuse necessary.  They are told for years how savage/sinful/terrible they are.  They graduate 10 or 11 years later, after all of this abuse has been internalized, go back 'home'.  But now all they see are people to be ashamed of; they are strangers to their family.  They try to go live in the white world, but all they get is rejection because people still consider them savages.  They numb their pain with alcohol, and as people do - get together and make babies.  Those babies, if they are allowed to keep them, are raised by people who know nothing of parenting and are self-medicating their pain and shame with alcohol and drugs.  That's what they learn, each generation.  What your friends found was part of the legacy of residential schools.

6.  I commend them.  But why should this get more attention than the conditions under which close to 150,000 children were raised?    Is that some sort of consolation prize for these kids - there are nice people who really cared, so please don't complain that things were so bad for you?

7.  What, exactly, were the gains for the First Nations people?  

8.  Yes, let's do better.  Let's acknowledge what happened to these people, how it still affects them.  Let's discuss how we can move forward to mitigate the damage to their culture and society caused by our ill-advised "education" program.  Let's not diminish what happened to them by pointing out how it was 'well-intentioned', and that 'some weren't abused' and that 'they benefited from the great white culture'.   Let's actually hear and understand and stop trying to excuse it away.  

I excuse nothing, but you take rare and extreme examples and present them as the norm.  They were not.  Provide evidence to substantiate your claims.  Bad things happened in all schools, more of them in residential schools.

Gains?   How about learning to read and write, perform basic math, learn life skills for functioning in a rapidly advancing world, and encouraging participation in an economy that would provide much higher living standards?

Yes children were removed from homes by CAS due to parental neglect, abuse, and addiction.  Trying to blame all of that on residential schools is a cop out, but yes, that’s going to be the narrative until facts and research become mainstream, which may be never.  It’s about the punchy heart wrenching headline: 60’s Scoop, child graves.  It’s not nearly as simple as that.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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I can't even imagine if I was an indigenous parent in 2021, and my kids were living in hide or turf shelters with no technology to speak of, watching other kids with ski-doos, cel phones, driving cars and boats, living in modern homes, eating fresh fruit and produce in the winter, etc.

I don't understand how some people still feel like staying in the stone age was the best option for them. If they were in Hawaii, or the Yucatan peninsula, sure, but not in Edm or Fort Mac. F no. 

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6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 you take rare and extreme examples and present them as the norm.  They were not.  

My grandfather used to say: "There's his story, there's her story, and somewhere in the middle there's the truth."

Leftists have no clue wtf that even means. To them any victimhood story is instantly considered gospel truth.

There's never any perspective, understanding, or reason from leftists. If they had any of those things they wouldn't be leftists though, would they lol. 

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7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Leftists have no clue wtf that even means. To them any victimhood story is instantly considered gospel truth.

There's never any perspective, understanding, or reason from leftists. If they had any of those things they wouldn't be leftists though, would they lol. 

Rightists are simple-minded creatures; they are unable to follow logic, and must make up things in order to cope with life.  They require a leader to tell them what they must do, and believe - without that, they are lost.  That is why so many rightists are also religious.  Thinking for themselves is far too frightening.

Hmmmm .... I see why so many people appreciate generalizations - they take all the work out of thinking!

 

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7 hours ago, dialamah said:

Rightists are simple-minded creatures; they are unable to follow logic, and must make up things in order to cope with life.  They require a leader to tell them what they must do, and believe - without that, they are lost.  That is why so many rightists are also religious.  Thinking for themselves is far too frightening.

Hmmmm .... I see why so many people appreciate generalizations - they take all the work out of thinking!

 

the group think is mostly on the left

the right judges the individual on their own merit

the woke judges the individual based on their group identity

and thinks that merit is white supremacist patriarchal oppression

attacking competence and elevating incompetence

success is a sin that must be punished and lack of success is a virtue that must be rewarded

 

equity of outcome supersedes equality of opportunity

and they confuse the former with the latter

opportunity must be taken away from the productive and given to the unproductive

because any inequality of outcome is considered evidence of systemic oppression

this is their orwellian definition of "equality"

thinking for themselves is far too frightening, so they follow the herd

Edited by Yzermandius19
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16 hours ago, Argus said:

 I mean, how long does a small piece of untreated wood last when stuck in the ground in Canada?

 

Gee, you always have the answer! 

And who in hell is using wood to mark a grave?  A dog's grave , maybe, but not a human grave!

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6 hours ago, cougar said:

Gee, you always have the answer! 

And who in hell is using wood to mark a grave?  A dog's grave , maybe, but not a human grave!

Did you miss the part about Kamloops being nothing but a trading fort and railhead at the ass end of nowhere for much of its history? Do you think they had stone carvers there with a population of maybe a hundred people (aside from the school)? You think they sent away to Vancouver or somewhere to have them shipped in by rail? I'm pretty sure the cost would have been prohibitive.  

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17 hours ago, dialamah said:

"Woke folks"; hahaha!  The newest 'right wing' insult tossed out to dismiss any idea with which they disagree.  Especially if that idea involves treating all people with compassion, respect and dignity.

The term 'woke' is not a right wing invention. It developed on the Left. And I don't see a lot of compassion among the Left. I see narcissistic virtue signaling and arrogant attempts at shaming others. Along with, of course, a paternalistic bigotry towards anyone not White.

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Wondering if a 'Wokie Pride' parade would be appropriate at this time . . . . ?   

Followed by a politically correct carnival of 'virtue -signal'izers and other assorted freaks.

Pinatas  of  Sir John A., Doug Ford, Stephen Harper, etc. . . . . . nothing quite as exciting as a blindfolded/blind 'Wokie' swinging a bat at every sound they perceive as a threat to their perfect thought process . . . . 

Cougar and dialamah as Parade Marshalls ?

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The woke are tearing down statues of Sir John A MacDonald because he wanted to educate native kids - even though he never made attendance mandatory and never abused a child. They tore down a statue of Egerton Ryerson, who is largely responsible for setting up Canada's education system, because he came up with the idea of boarding schools for natives - even though they weren't actually built till after his death. And even though he actually was very progressive, learned to speak Objibwa, was formally adopted into a native tribe and had many native friends.

Facts don't seem to matter to the righteous woke.

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What I find amusing is the belief that by virtue-signalling and tearing down a statue, the woke left thinks they are accomplishing something. There is no rationality behind it, just an excuse for violent antisocial display.

Watch how Trudeau leads the brigade with his visceral accusations towards the church, this is 100% intended to deflect blame and attention away from Canada.

If I were native, I'd want real action. Not fluffy apologies. All those white folks who are apologizing now, as if the issue was unknown and a new thing that was uncovered, need to have their teeth kicked in by native boots.

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the origins of this are in the hyperprotestant puritanism of the Second Great Awakening in the early 19th century

this is the Great Awokening of the white guilt liberals, the birth of a new religion, and they are zealots 

the difference is, there is no Christ

there is no atonement, you can never be forgiven, you are cast into leftist hell on earth simply for being white

you've even got them washing the feet of black people in the streets, it's all perfomative ritual

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16 hours ago, dialamah said:

Rightists are simple-minded creatures; they are unable to follow logic, and must make up things in order to cope with life.  They require a leader to tell them what they must do, and believe - without that, they are lost.  That is why so many rightists are also religious.  Thinking for themselves is far too frightening.

Hmmmm .... I see why so many people appreciate generalizations - they take all the work out of thinking!

 

You just described leftists dialamah. 

You know, the people who were fooled on every topic in the MSM over the past 8 years, the ones who blindly follow Biden and Trudeau despite their obvious ethics breaches, etc?

Generalizations aren't always bad. Being able to predict people is important. It's a survival skill. 

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35 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Watch how Trudeau leads the brigade with his visceral accusations towards the church, this is 100% intended to deflect blame and attention away from Canada.

Trudeau doesn't give a damn about blaming Canada. He does it all the time. But if he deflects to the church he figures he doesn't have to do anything more to assuage the natives and his woke base.

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27 minutes ago, Argus said:

Trudeau doesn't give a damn about blaming Canada. He does it all the time. But if he deflects to the church he figures he doesn't have to do anything more to assuage the natives and his woke base.

It's the ultimate virtue signalling message.

JT - "My ancestors, the founders of this nation, were horrible people. The very worst in history. I'm crying real tears of re-election, or uh, shame and anguish for the bad things that they did. They were way worse than simply bilking charities and committing ethics breaches on behalf of companies that are known to bribe politicians, or lying about getting water to indigenous people, or fighting veterans in court to deny them access to prosthetic limbs. Uhhhh, did that suck? Hey LaFlamme - cut that last part out and especially the part about re-election. Later chumps. I gotta go drink some expensive wine, courtesy of my fanbase. Peons. Voters. Whatever. You know what I mean."

 

CTV's edit: Justin Trudeau was moved to tears yesterday and vowed to do whatever he can to make things right for indigenous people! "My ancestors, the founders of this nation, were horrible people. The very worst in history. I'm crying real tears of re-election, or uh, shame and anguish for the bad things that they did. They were way worse than simply bilking charities and committing ethics breaches on behalf of companies that are known to bribe politicians, or lying about getting water to indigenous people, or fighting veterans in court to deny them access to prosthetic limbs. Uhhhh, did that suck? Hey LaFlamme - cut that last part out and especially the part about re-election. Later chumps. I gotta go drink some expensive wine, courtesy of my fanbase. Peons. Voters. Whatever. You know what I mean."

Edited by WestCanMan
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5 hours ago, Argus said:

Did you miss the part about Kamloops being nothing but a trading fort and railhead at the ass end of nowhere for much of its history? Do you think they had stone carvers there with a population of maybe a hundred people (aside from the school)? You think they sent away to Vancouver or somewhere to have them shipped in by rail? I'm pretty sure the cost would have been prohibitive.  

The government pledged they will spare no cost to conduct a through investigation into the matter.

Looking at your deep knowledge, I wonder why they would be doing that.  They may just ask you and you will give them all they need in a second or two.

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13 minutes ago, cougar said:

The government pledged they will spare no cost to conduct a through investigation into the matter.

Looking at your deep knowledge, I wonder why they would be doing that.  They may just ask you and you will give them all they need in a second or two.

Because everything they do is political. The media has gotten the weak-minded into a frenzy over this and that happens to be their main base of support. Now they're all running around weeping and wringing their hands in anguish over events which happened before they were born, wallowing in assumed shame and guilt. So what do you expect the government to say? Grow up and move on? Not their style.

 

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

Because everything they do is political. The media has gotten the weak-minded into a frenzy over this and that happens to be their main base of support. Now they're all running around weeping and wringing their hands in anguish over events which happened before they were born, wallowing in assumed shame and guilt. So what do you expect the government to say? Grow up and move on? Not their style.

 

We can only wait and see how this plays out.  At this point neither I nor you know what actually happened.

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