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Quebec hardens language law, federal politicians applaud.


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On 7/16/2021 at 2:23 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

You also have to realize that while the rest of Canada isn't perfect they have tried very hard over the decades to appease Quebec.  Official bilingualism for a minority language, official multiculturalism since the 60's, recognizing Quebec as a nation within a nation, 2 major attempts after 1982 to bring Quebec into the constitution, mostly Quebec 

Appease? Appease! We are not meant to be appeased. We are not looking forward to be appeased. We want to be respected as an equal partner. Not considered as a dominated vassal that needs to be appeased.

Quebec never been recognized as a nation officially in the constitution. Harper did a motion to recognize the Quebec individuals as a nation. It's a good start but, he made sure that it has no recognition politically.

One serious attempt in 1987-1990, but as always, you turned your vest and betrayed your engagements. The one of 1992 is a sad joke. It's a canadian running gag. You guys betray us, then you blame us for your decision.

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3 of 9 Justices coming from Quebec is never going to happen and is totally unreasonable.

You can't have an equal number of french and english on the SCC, there's 9 justices and you need an odd number to avoid ties in the voting.

Quebec should not get special treatment, anything that applies to them should apply to the other provinces.

Well, as I said to Army Guy, I did a mistake on this one. This is not exactly what we claimed in 1990 and I wrote it too fast without paying much attention to this point. Regarding the number of judges, there was no precisions on that. It was only said that Quebec wants a say on the nominations. We do not want Ottawa to choose alone who would be the judges of this country. The main goal here is, we want to make sure the judges would be impartial. If they all come from Saskatchewan and they are honest and fair, I do not have a problem with that. The problem is, I do not trust a single bit the prime minister of Canada to make a good choice.  If the other provinces want also a say on the nominations, then why not?

The point was also about the nominations of the senators. This whole senate is a farce. The prime minister is the one to choose the senators. We can't force you to be smarter than that. If you guys are ok with such joke, then at least let us choose our own senators. Quebec senators should be chosen by Quebec, not the PM of Canada.

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Prime Ministers the last 50 years, lots of money thrown Quebec's way, and they put up with a separatist federal party that couldn't give much of a rat about the rest of the country.  It's not like people don't care.

wtf?

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Oh STFU.  Are you kidding me?  Ottawa does more to bend over backwards to Quebec than any other province by orders of magnitude.  Quebec is not being ripped off, quite the opposite.  Much of the corruption in Ottawa even involves politicians funneling money and favours to Quebec corporations and whatnot.  Trudeau dumped his own attorney general to butter the coffers of SNC-Lavalin.  How much has Ottawa given to Bombardier?  Chretien put a CRA tax centre in his hometown of Shawinigan.  Do you remember the sponsorship scandal?  The entire federal government bureaucracy in Ottawa (and Gatineau) is a giant job factory for bilingual Quebecois.

Do you listen to yourself when you are saying crap like that? Who has benefit in Quebec from the money those corrupted politicians looted from public funds? Only the corrupted ones did. Not the common people like me. I did not get any penny out of it. SNC-Lavalin's profits are going outside of Canada in fiscal paradises with the complicity of those politicians. How the f**k should I be satisfied with that? Who voted for the liberals in Quebec? The English people. They are 100% supportive of those corrupted ones with scores that would make any dictator jealous af. Bombardier? Great company with great workers and the worst stupid leaders. But why those leaders are still running the show for Bombardier? Because Ottawa always supported them. Ottawa never listens to us. Of course I remember this crappy sponsorship scandal. Obviously, you are not smart enough to remember that the Bloc Québécois was very strong and was getting all the french seats of the province. So it was again the English voters and very few federalist French voters who placed them in power. Not US!!!! Yet, you blame us. WTF should I have done beside voting for someone else? Kill them? You need to have the balls to blame your own fellows living here. There are the ones to blame. Again, how much money did I get from that. Sweet f***all! The corrupted ones got it all and nothing ended up in my pockets. Not a single penny.

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Quebec politicians have controlled the country for most of the last 50 years.  Give me a break with your whining.  Imagine if you lived in BC or Saskatchewan how much you'd be whining about being ignored by Ottawa.  When was the last Prime Minister from BC?

Please, get them all. I will give you those bastards anytime. Trudeau (father and son), Chretien, all liberals elected here in Quebec. I am paying the airplane tickets right now. They are causing us more damages than anything else. They are the worst of what humanity can get. But do not blame us for that. That is very coward of you. Have the balls to face their real supporters.

 

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8 hours ago, Benz said:

1.1 This is something I can't figure out regarding your reasoning. How come the recognition of our nation would make people not treated the same? On the contrary. People would still be treated the same. The difference is, we would have to both agree on the rules. But the rules would still be the same to everyone. Right now, only your nation is recognized and pretends to be the only one in this country. But it is not the reality. Quebec and the natives are all different nations and Canada is not the only one country in this world having more than one nation within its border. For me, being a different nation than yours, is not a good reason enough to separate from Canada. The federalism is suppose to be flexible enough to respect that reality. But it becomes a reason to separate if your nation does not recognize us because you guys wants to keep absolute power over the rules. It's time to turn the page of the "French and Indian war", and recognize and respect each others.

1.2 That's the only way to make sure we get along. As long as one side can decide of everything, it will always be a problem.

1.3 I did a mistake on that one. This is not the official request we presented in 1990 and I wrote it too fast. My bad. Please check the reply I will do to Moonlight graham.

1.4 In 1980, the group of 8 was claiming exactly that. Unfortunately, the group of 8 betrayed Quebec and give up that and rather go with Trudeau. We are 100000% agree with any other province that would claim the same. Unfortunately, we are the only one claiming it. But I strongly suggest that you guys claim the same for your respective province. Right now, you guys let the federal spending whatever it wants, wherever it wants, however its wants. You are giving way too much power of spending to that the federal. I think just reducing seriously the power and the coverage of spending would be better but, you guys seem ok with that. So at least, the very least, we need the full compensation of an opt out. 

 

2.1 Yep, Alberta has contributing alot lately, but Alberta also has benefit alot in the past for its development. It would be a great futile exercise to compute all spending, contributions and investments of the last 200 years. Of course there are winners and losers. If we separate, what happen if we do not agree, what happen if we do agree. I believe that we both benefit to make it simple.

2.2 Over my dead body. Quebec has also being taken out territories. You are watching the point from a very narrowed view. It can only lead to war. It's amazing how you discard your own history to suit your today's ambition. Remember that you did cultural genocide to the french and natives living outside Quebec. Now that the cleansing is done, you behave like this whole country is legitimately exclusively yours. You will never make a point with it. If this is really the path you want to take, there will be blood. Give up on this imperialistic attitude. What is done, is done. If the ROC wants to exchange territory, let's discuss it. But if the ROC wants to take from Quebec what is left to Quebec, then let's kill each others.

2.3 Quebec is not in a position where it can starts create geopolitical issues and problems for a caprice. USA wouldn't tolerate sterile disputes anyway. This is definitely not the way we plan to behave with our neighborhood.  If we do such thing, it is because you would have been looking for it. I do not expect you to reach that point. Right now, you are thinking like a federalist pro-Ottawa. Quebec always being able to get along pretty well with its neighbors. Whenever there is a dispute, it's always because Ottawa puts is nose in it.

1.1  This is my reasoning, Canada is the nation, to which is made up of many different provinces, people, creeds, languages etc. Everyone being Canadians first, which for the most part i do support your ideas, but not separate nations, to have a separate nation would mean we are all not working on the same page or for the same things. one nation would always come first over the other. If it is a separate nation you want then i think you have already made up your mind, the only thing to do is separate... It also works the other way, if Canada is to remain whole then compromise has to be made on both sides.  i personal think that separation of Quebec would be the end of Canada period, it would cascade to every province.. It would also mean a major adjustment in our standard of living for every province..., not to mention no voice on the world stage at all,

what would the be the worlds reaction to all of that, what do you think our dollar would be worth, what about all our trade agreements, we as a people would become irrelevant.

2.2 like i said there are going to be things that are going to have to be compromise ,nobody is talking about taking anything,  some choices will be easy, and some will be hard to swallow. but i think and this is my opinion not fact, that the land borders will have to be redrawn how much so i could only guess. 

i'm glad you bring up the fact that English Canada has carried out genicide and ethnic cleansing before and yes to the French as well, but the French population also have skeletons in there closet as well and  i don't really think that is who we are today, i mean you and me.... and I'm not responsible for their mistakes or crimes, nor are you...

As for the imperialistic attitude, that was not my intention, I'm not going to say that it will not be at the discussion table. The reason i say that is you seem to think that Quebec has the upper hand during separation, and this is my opinion only i don't think Quebec will be treated as a equal at the table, Canada has more to loss here than Quebec. I do remember the first talks of separation, France did promise to support Quebec in it's transfer of power, that would tip the table in Quebec's favor. 

As for War there has not been to many separations on this planet that did not lead to war, or conflict. And that is the last thing i really think we all want.. The last separation vote MR Crietien did order all the f-18s based in Quebec into the states once on the ground they were quarantined, no Canadian pilots or crew could go near them as their loyalties were unknown at the time. .  also a large portion of 5 brigade was sent to NY on exercise, while 2 brigade in Ontario was put on 6 hours notice to move, in other words put on alert for operations. I'm not privy to the reasons why, or where or how, just that my leave was canceled and we were told we were going somewhere. and the only thing happening in the world at that time was the vote for separation...I bring this up because the government would be just stupid not to be prepared for anything including using force... What this government is capable of doing I'm not sure, but the liberals have used the military more than any other party... but an unarmed Quebec would be at at disadvantage when it comes to war... Not that i think the US would allow it to go very far without intervening some how. But they have shown support for the government in the past.

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8 hours ago, Benz said:

Do you listen to yourself when you are saying crap like that? Who has benefit in Quebec from the money those corrupted politicians looted from public funds? Only the corrupted ones did. Not the common people like me. I did not get any penny out of it. SNC-Lavalin's profits are going outside of Canada in fiscal paradises with the complicity of those politicians. How the f**k should I be satisfied with that?

4000 people in Quebec work for SNC-Lavalin.  It doesn't matter if this doesn't affect you personally.  They're a major corporation that helps the Quebec economy.

8 hours ago, Benz said:

Ottawa never listens to us.

Oh shut up you whining fool.  Ottawa, including opposition parties, is busy right now bending over backwards for Francophones in Quebec over french language laws.  But you'll say "that's a good start" and then start whining about the next thing Quebec francophones aren't getting because "Ottawa never listens to us".

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberals-table-bill-to-protect-french-in-sweeping-update-to-official-languages-act-1.5471189

https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/protecting-french-is-our-job-but-quebec-says-it-will-study-ottawas-plan

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On 7/19/2021 at 9:32 PM, Army Guy said:

1.1  This is my reasoning, Canada is the nation, to which is made up of many different provinces, people, creeds, languages etc. Everyone being Canadians first, which for the most part i do support your ideas, but not separate nations, to have a separate nation would mean we are all not working on the same page or for the same things. one nation would always come first over the other. If it is a separate nation you want then i think you have already made up your mind, the only thing to do is separate... It also works the other way, if Canada is to remain whole then compromise has to be made on both sides.  i personal think that separation of Quebec would be the end of Canada period, it would cascade to every province.. It would also mean a major adjustment in our standard of living for every province..., not to mention no voice on the world stage at all,

what would the be the worlds reaction to all of that, what do you think our dollar would be worth, what about all our trade agreements, we as a people would become irrelevant.

Take the natives for example. They have been sovereign ever since they arrived in North America until your ancestors beat them, reduce them to small reserves and apply on them their own rules. Now you are saying them "that is life dude, accept your faith". Well no, it is against nature to deny who you are. The natives are natives first. Their hearts and souls belong to their own nation first, not Canada, or Manitoba, or Québec. Same goes for the French in Québec. What you are saying is, you have no trust or confidence on us at all. You believe that if this country is about the recognition of its nations, it will lead to the collapse of Canada. That is what you think of us. Then after, you wander why we do not identify ourselves as Canadians first. The actual Canada is a picture of the past. It is the picture of the post French and Indians war outcome where the British defeated us. Why is it so hard for you to conceive that you should draw a line where the past is left behind and work on the future with what is left of your "former ennemies".  Do not fool yourself. If you think that the recognition of our nations lead to the destruction of Canada, it is because you still see us as enemies. You fear of what would happen to the CAD value but, yet, you are ready to sacrifice that rather than recognize the different people of this country. You do not make the effort to put yourself in our place. You prefer to picture on ourself the construction of your own fear.

 

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2.2 like i said there are going to be things that are going to have to be compromise ,nobody is talking about taking anything,  some choices will be easy, and some will be hard to swallow. but i think and this is my opinion not fact, that the land borders will have to be redrawn how much so i could only guess. 

i'm glad you bring up the fact that English Canada has carried out genicide and ethnic cleansing before and yes to the French as well, but the French population also have skeletons in there closet as well and  i don't really think that is who we are today, i mean you and me.... and I'm not responsible for their mistakes or crimes, nor are you...

Indeed. I'll never blame you for what happened before you. That would be unfair. But what I want you to get concerned on, is the actual outcome of what happened in the past. The British had the intention to destroy all of us and swallow us into their nation. No success, we continue to be what we are. What path do you want to take? The one that tries to convert us like you are, once and for all? Or the one that gets along with us without the fear that we will backstab you?

You have an incredible opportunity here. Neither Quebec, nor the natives have anger toward you. No one wants the blood spread on the floor. No one wants to revenge. No one wants the war. Quebec is not divided between those who love and those who hate Canada. It is rather divided on those who still have hope you will accept this reality and those who no longer have. The natives have all the reasons in the world to hate you because of the cultural genocides they went thru and yet, they just want things to be normal with the recognition they deserve. I do not understand why you just do not take the hand that is offered to you. You should question yourself if it is worth it to take the chance to destroy this country by refusing this handshake that would clear out the past once and for all.

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As for the imperialistic attitude, that was not my intention, I'm not going to say that it will not be at the discussion table. The reason i say that is you seem to think that Quebec has the upper hand during separation, and this is my opinion only i don't think Quebec will be treated as a equal at the table, Canada has more to loss here than Quebec. I do remember the first talks of separation, France did promise to support Quebec in it's transfer of power, that would tip the table in Quebec's favor. 

As for War there has not been to many separations on this planet that did not lead to war, or conflict. And that is the last thing i really think we all want.. The last separation vote MR Crietien did order all the f-18s based in Quebec into the states once on the ground they were quarantined, no Canadian pilots or crew could go near them as their loyalties were unknown at the time. .  also a large portion of 5 brigade was sent to NY on exercise, while 2 brigade in Ontario was put on 6 hours notice to move, in other words put on alert for operations. I'm not privy to the reasons why, or where or how, just that my leave was canceled and we were told we were going somewhere. and the only thing happening in the world at that time was the vote for separation...I bring this up because the government would be just stupid not to be prepared for anything including using force... What this government is capable of doing I'm not sure, but the liberals have used the military more than any other party... but an unarmed Quebec would be at at disadvantage when it comes to war... Not that i think the US would allow it to go very far without intervening some how. But they have shown support for the government in the past.

Regarding the USA, they are having so many concerns on this planet, I am pretty sure the last place they want a new conflict is their own backyard. If Canada gets unstable and slides to serious conflicts, you can bet foreigners will involve for their own interests. Europe, Russia, China... name it! Some of them would do it just for the pleasure to bother the Americans. If that happens, both of us would be the biggest losers. I cannot imagine that you, as a citizen, would let it happen. I know that trend would be very unpopular here in Quebec.

The actual system places us (french and natives) in a position where you guys set alone all the rules and consider us as conquered people. The first question you must ask yourself is, how far would you go to keep it as is? How much are you ready to lose in order to keep the status quo? Don't be that dog that cannot let go its wood stick from its jaws. But if you do, then assume it until the end. Either we share this country, or we separate. We are ok to follow the very same rules, our only condition is that we agree on those rules. How much are you ready to sacrifice of this country for not sharing the setup of those rules?
If you prefer separation, then the second question is, do you want to solve it as a reasonable adult, or do you want the whole international community to mess up our playground?

 

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On 7/19/2021 at 9:41 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

4000 people in Quebec work for SNC-Lavalin.  It doesn't matter if this doesn't affect you personally.  They're a major corporation that helps the Quebec economy.

What is your point? Are you saying that SNC-Lavalin should not exists and is artificially kept alive? How about the automobile deal where Ottawa keeps only the constructors from Ontario? If we take in considerations all the subsides Ottawa is giving and cover up our eyes on all the corruptions, it is true that Quebec isn't the biggest loser, nor the biggest winner. SNC-Laval, Bombardier and so on, they have good workers doing a good job and their salary gives good income for the federal. Same goes for all other companies that benefit from the federal funding outside Quebec. No, the problem is, the leaders of those companies are getting a sh** load of money by corrupting the politicians. If you think that only Quebec benefits from it, then you are very dishonest. 

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Oh shut up you whining fool.  Ottawa, including opposition parties, is busy right now bending over backwards for Francophones in Quebec over french language laws.  But you'll say "that's a good start" and then start whining about the next thing Quebec francophones aren't getting because "Ottawa never listens to us".

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberals-table-bill-to-protect-french-in-sweeping-update-to-official-languages-act-1.5471189

https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/protecting-french-is-our-job-but-quebec-says-it-will-study-ottawas-plan

I will shut up when the french canadians won't have to use the Supreme Court to send their children to public schools. I will shut up when the french canadians will receive the same treatment as the english people do.

The biggest irony in that, is the example of New Brunswick. Alot of English people over there would like their children to learn french. But the french courses suck. They complain about it but the authorities do not give a ****.  Then the same politicians that refuses to give proper french courses to their own citizens, also complain that only the french people can get good bilingual jobs, because they are better bilingual than the english ones. This is so english politician mindset. First you refuse to have good course, then you whine and blame the others for your own choice of ignorance. You whine, then you blame the others for whining. It is called projection.

Montreal gazette... again and again, the same angryphones that whine because they cannot have English-ONLY signs. Cry me a river.

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On 7/22/2021 at 12:51 PM, Benz said:

Take the natives for example. They have been sovereign ever since they arrived in North America until your ancestors beat them, reduce them to small reserves and apply on them their own rules. Now you are saying them "that is life dude, accept your faith". Well no, it is against nature to deny who you are. The natives are natives first. Their hearts and souls belong to their own nation first, not Canada, or Manitoba, or Québec. Same goes for the French in Québec. What you are saying is, you have no trust or confidence on us at all. You believe that if this country is about the recognition of its nations, it will lead to the collapse of Canada. That is what you think of us. Then after, you wander why we do not identify ourselves as Canadians first. The actual Canada is a picture of the past. It is the picture of the post French and Indians war outcome where the British defeated us. Why is it so hard for you to conceive that you should draw a line where the past is left behind and work on the future with what is left of your "former ennemies".  Do not fool yourself. If you think that the recognition of our nations lead to the destruction of Canada, it is because you still see us as enemies. You fear of what would happen to the CAD value but, yet, you are ready to sacrifice that rather than recognize the different people of this country. You do not make the effort to put yourself in our place. You prefer to picture on ourself the construction of your own fear.

 

I am not going to deny my ancestors gave the natives a shitty time, but at the same time your ancestors are just as guilty of taking advantage of the native population I goggled Indian wars in Canada, and there is lots of examples that the French were also in direct competition for the same resources and used violence to solve most of them..

What am i suppose to say, SORRY for how my ancestors treated you 300 years ago, sorry Justin has already done that several times over and it has gotten us no where, we have tried here is a dollar i hope we can be friends, it has gone no where , at what point in time are todays Canadians going to be on the hook for all that happened in the past... I would think 300 years would be enough that we can stand on the same ground and be called everyone Canadians... Same as when the British defeated the French, yes they did some shitty things to the French, including ethnic cleansing send thousands to Louisiana, once again we are still not over that I guess,  I mean it is my opinion that Canada should offer you an olive branch, starting with a new constitution.  I want you to treated like any other Canadian, i want you to be as Canadian as everyone. . And yet, i get from your conversation  you don't want that, you sir want to be a Quebecois first who happens to live in Canada. Why do you need to be a nation within a nation , what special rights does that give you ? 

What nations does first nations claim ?, what has been given to them by some treaty over 300 years old, and what do they claim as theirs via word of mouth, i question this because they were nomads so to speak, traveling to where the food was, borders constantly changing because of internal conflict with other first nations tribes... how far back do we need to go to sort out who's land is whos. giving them all the treatment they have been receiving for hundreds of years, all it does is trap them in to the same cycle of behavior, and it separates them from the rest of Canada, and is a source of division on both sides, cancel it all and start treating them as everyone else gets treated. 

I'm not saying i don't trust you, i don't understand the concept of "why" you need your own nation, why is it that you feel the need to be Quebecois first, rather than Canadian. I mean France lost on the battle field, they lost interest in everything in North America they pulled out of lower Canada and then they abandoned your ancestors  and left, you to defend for yourself, and the English are the bad guys...  now consider yourself what a French men from France or a Quebecois  from Quebec. and if you have changed what you called yourselves, your linage is from France, and mine is from England, and yet i call myself Canadian not British.

When i was over in Afghanistan, we took over from the Vandoos , they were showing us the ropes, many times they came to our rescue in Combat, and we rescued them, we shed blood for each other with out hesitation, because...  we were all "Canadians", no one say screw you English guy you suck remember 300 years ago... they wore the Canadian flag on their shoulders same as we did...they flew the Canadians flag over there camps, not the Quebec flag. My  point is we are all Canadian, we may share different linage or countries of origin, but in the end you are part of this nation called Canada as much as i am. I don't see you as my enemy, i see you as a Canadian...nothing more nothing less. It seems you are the one that can not let go of the past... if your father is sentenced to 100 years in prison, and only does 50 years in detention , does his son have to serve the rest... No then why are todays Canadians being asked to pay for our ancestors crimes...

Tell me the benefits of having your own nation within a nation, and what is wrong with considering yourself Canadian, since we are living in Canada. As for the destruction of Canada, perhaps you can name 5 nations that have separated in the last 300 years that have NOT ended in conflict...trust me I've been to a few of them, and i will say the fall of the Canadians dollar is the last of our worries...You claim you want to be treated the same, and yet you don't want to be the same , i see this as a division , things that drive us apart... like i said before how do we have a united nation, when we are so divided, over something that happen over 200 years ago...is it going to take another 200 years to be on the same page

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/23/2021 at 10:42 PM, Army Guy said:

I am not going to deny my ancestors gave the natives a shitty time, but at the same time your ancestors are just as guilty of taking advantage of the native population I goggled Indian wars in Canada, and there is lots of examples that the French were also in direct competition for the same resources and used violence to solve most of them..

 

The French were not better than the British in the Carabean islans, specially Haiti, and in Africa. So I do not know why they played it so nice with the natives in North America. Maybe because they were not in position to do so. I am not naive on that. Of course the French had to fight against few natives. Mostly against the Iroquois that were raiding among the colonists to kill mothers and children. The English paid them back with weapons for every scalps they were bringing back. But the majority of the natives were allied of the French, the treaty of 1701 Great Peace is the perfect example.

 

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What am i suppose to say, SORRY for how my ancestors treated you 300 years ago, sorry Justin has already done that several times over and it has gotten us no where, we have tried here is a dollar i hope we can be friends, it has gone no where , at what point in time are todays Canadians going to be on the hook for all that happened in the past... I would think 300 years would be enough that we can stand on the same ground and be called everyone Canadians... Same as when the British defeated the French, yes they did some shitty things to the French, including ethnic cleansing send thousands to Louisiana, once again we are still not over that I guess,  I mean it is my opinion that Canada should offer you an olive branch, starting with a new constitution.  I want you to treated like any other Canadian, i want you to be as Canadian as everyone. . And yet, i get from your conversation  you don't want that, you sir want to be a Quebecois first who happens to live in Canada. Why do you need to be a nation within a nation , what special rights does that give you ? 

I do not know if it is because I suck with the English language, but I do not understand why you think we expect you to say "sorry" over and over. You would like me to consider myself as a Canadian like you. I know you think it is the right thing and you mean it with respect when you say it. I do not question your good will. But you have to understand that YOU (English only) defined what is a Canadian and YOU setup the rules. Which happens to be not fair with people that are not exactly like you, such as the natives and the French. Of course you do not experience it, because you are none of them. Just as much as I do not experience the racial discrimination on the black people. I am not the one who gets arrested just because my skin is black. It doesn't mean I do not know it exists. As an English canadian, you do not have to use the Supreme Court to subscribe your child to a public school in your language. You are not confined into a small reserve having no drinkable water.

Originally, a Canadian was a French colonist. Until the late 1800's, the English were still naming themselve, North American British. So when the English decided to adopt the name of Canadian, the Canadians thought it would lead to reconciliation. We would be both Canadians, with the only difference of the spoken language. At first, the French saw this as a good news. Then later realize it was just a trap and the it changed nothing to the behavior of the ones in power. After a while, the French were so disgusted, they decided to change their name to Québécois.

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What nations does first nations claim ?, what has been given to them by some treaty over 300 years old, and what do they claim as theirs via word of mouth, i question this because they were nomads so to speak, traveling to where the food was, borders constantly changing because of internal conflict with other first nations tribes... how far back do we need to go to sort out who's land is whos. giving them all the treatment they have been receiving for hundreds of years, all it does is trap them in to the same cycle of behavior, and it separates them from the rest of Canada, and is a source of division on both sides, cancel it all and start treating them as everyone else gets treated. 

I'm not saying i don't trust you, i don't understand the concept of "why" you need your own nation, why is it that you feel the need to be Quebecois first, rather than Canadian. I mean France lost on the battle field, they lost interest in everything in North America they pulled out of lower Canada and then they abandoned your ancestors  and left, you to defend for yourself, and the English are the bad guys...  now consider yourself what a French men from France or a Quebecois  from Quebec. and if you have changed what you called yourselves, your linage is from France, and mine is from England, and yet i call myself Canadian not British.

Do you see Quebec looking to get annexed to France? If France would claim such thing, our response would be, wait a minute cousin, we have changed alot since you gave up on us more than 250 years ago. The culture of Quebec nation is mixed. The language ties us to France and the french sphere but, we are also very north american on several other perspectives. We are not Europeans, we are North Americans and we do not intend to change that. I am French for the language, not for the nation France. Just as well as you are English for the language, not for the nation England. How come I have to explain you this? I thought you knew us better than that.

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When i was over in Afghanistan, we took over from the Vandoos , they were showing us the ropes, many times they came to our rescue in Combat, and we rescued them, we shed blood for each other with out hesitation, because...  we were all "Canadians", no one say screw you English guy you suck remember 300 years ago... they wore the Canadian flag on their shoulders same as we did...they flew the Canadians flag over there camps, not the Quebec flag. My  point is we are all Canadian, we may share different linage or countries of origin, but in the end you are part of this nation called Canada as much as i am. I don't see you as my enemy, i see you as a Canadian...nothing more nothing less. It seems you are the one that can not let go of the past... if your father is sentenced to 100 years in prison, and only does 50 years in detention , does his son have to serve the rest... No then why are todays Canadians being asked to pay for our ancestors crimes...

Is it how you see us? You think that if I would be on that battlefield, I would say screw you English speaker? I would have saved you even if you were American or British. Because it is the right thing to do among allies. You under estimate the ties even a "separatist" could have with a English Canadian like you. I do not cheer against Team Canada in the Olympics. It is not because you do not understand the need of recognition of our nations that I would entertain futile hatred with you. I think you extrapolate our claim to a total rejection of you with resentment. You are wrong, this is not what we are.

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Tell me the benefits of having your own nation within a nation, and what is wrong with considering yourself Canadian, since we are living in Canada. As for the destruction of Canada, perhaps you can name 5 nations that have separated in the last 300 years that have NOT ended in conflict...trust me I've been to a few of them, and i will say the fall of the Canadians dollar is the last of our worries...You claim you want to be treated the same, and yet you don't want to be the same , i see this as a division , things that drive us apart... like i said before how do we have a united nation, when we are so divided, over something that happen over 200 years ago...is it going to take another 200 years to be on the same page

You mean 5 countries, not five nations. Well, I can give you Czechoslovaquia. Now separated into 2 nations, the Czecks and the Slovaks. Do they regret? Nope! Actually, even if it was bloody, does any nation who got its independence, ever regret it and would have change their mind if they could go in the past? No!

Look, Quebec signed a deal with the Cree, nation to nation. Quebec recognizes the sovereignty that the Cree were asking. Now their land is a share sovereignty between them and us. Do you think they regret and would like to go back to when they had no recognition at all? Remember that few decades ago, they were accusing us of genocide. Now the relations are just as good as we hoped. Nothing is perfect but, breaking that deal is not on the radar for none of both sides. Cree and Quebec have proven it is possible to get along by recognizing each others.

We are not divided by what happened 200 years ago. You recognize it happen and I do not blame you for what your ancestors did. The problem is not there. The problem is we are still living into a system that is the direct outcome of what your ancestors did. A system that is not fair to those who aren't English Canadians. I am asking you to recognize who we are, so we all have a say on the rules that are applied on all of us. Then being Canadian would now mean something to the French and the natives. It is not about having different rules. The rules must be the same for everyone. It's about having a say on those rules.

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On 7/22/2021 at 12:27 PM, Benz said:

What is your point? Are you saying that SNC-Lavalin should not exists and is artificially kept alive? How about the automobile deal where Ottawa keeps only the constructors from Ontario? If we take in considerations all the subsides Ottawa is giving and cover up our eyes on all the corruptions, it is true that Quebec isn't the biggest loser, nor the biggest winner. SNC-Laval, Bombardier and so on, they have good workers doing a good job and their salary gives good income for the federal. Same goes for all other companies that benefit from the federal funding outside Quebec. No, the problem is, the leaders of those companies are getting a sh** load of money by corrupting the politicians. If you think that only Quebec benefits from it, then you are very dishonest.

My point was that the Feds don't ignore Quebec, they're constantly kissing their butts.  Most of our Prime Ministers are from Quebec.  Trudeau's electoral district is a short bike ride from the SNC Lavalin headquarters. The feds throw more bones to Quebec than any other province without a doubt.  Francophones get a vast disproportionate # of federal jobs.  Virtually everyone in the country living outside Quebec or French New Brunswick would need to spend years in french school to be able to run for PM.  "We just want to be respected!".  Give me break, all we do is bend over backwards for Quebec francophones.  Quebec is treated better by Ottawa than any other province by leaps and bounds.  We just want you guys to be happy but you never seem to STFU, you're always whining about something and then hate us for it.

I could even stand the whining but then having a province filled with people who hate you, that's annoying.  I don't hate francophones at all, but a lot of them walk around with a big chip on their shoulder.  Put yourselves in our shoes for 2 seconds, we've been putting ourselves in yours for the last 60 years.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/9/2021 at 12:36 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

My point was that the Feds don't ignore Quebec, they're constantly kissing their butts.  Most of our Prime Ministers are from Quebec.  Trudeau's electoral district is a short bike ride from the SNC Lavalin headquarters. The feds throw more bones to Quebec than any other province without a doubt.  Francophones get a vast disproportionate # of federal jobs.  Virtually everyone in the country living outside Quebec or French New Brunswick would need to spend years in french school to be able to run for PM.  "We just want to be respected!".  Give me break, all we do is bend over backwards for Quebec francophones.  Quebec is treated better by Ottawa than any other province by leaps and bounds.  We just want you guys to be happy but you never seem to STFU, you're always whining about something and then hate us for it.

I could even stand the whining but then having a province filled with people who hate you, that's annoying.  I don't hate francophones at all, but a lot of them walk around with a big chip on their shoulder.  Put yourselves in our shoes for 2 seconds, we've been putting ourselves in yours for the last 60 years.

ok, so you are ignoring what I am saying rather than replying and you go back to your previous saying filled with ignorance and bad faith. You are showing me your limitations and your intelligible weakness. I feel sorry for you, it must be frustrating to not be able to sustain the conversation. But maybe you are not smart enough to figure you failed, so you do not realize it.

Just a little recap, just in case you have a sudden sparks of lucidity.

  1. The federal is not listening to the Provincial politicians, it is only filling the pockets of the Quebec federal politicians and their "friends". The people of Quebec do not win, the suckers of the federal party in power do.
  2. All english speaking people in Quebec are voting Liberals. Something to make jealous any dictator of this world. The french rather vote Bloc in majority. Accusing the french for the ones sent by the english people, is totally retarded.
  3. You totally over estimate the percentage of money sent to Lavalin compared to the amount spent in other programs such as the Nuclear and the Oil and many others. no wonder why you didn't bring any numbers.
  4. The french have to fight up to the supreme court to just open a school against the province that refuses and yet, you have the nerve to say you bend over backwards. The french outside Quebec do not get from you the 20% of the respect and considerations that we do give to our fellows english in Quebec. Read the Commissioner of Official Languages for once. You should try to get out of your denial for once. Maybe you will appreciate it. Always hating people is energy consuming.
  5. We do not hate you (the people), we hate you (the stupid individuals exactly like you that keep accusing us of something you entertain). You are hypocrite. The majority of Canadians are not like you, but that is the silent majority. The minority is noisy and is unfortunately taking too much space in the politics. So no I will not STFU. I will serve you back your own projection. Because this is exactly what you deserve. There is a word to describe what you are, Xenophobic. 
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On 8/12/2021 at 12:10 PM, -TSS- said:

I guess that if Quebec wants independence instead of having their own referendum there should be a referendum in the rest of Canada whether Quebec should go. That might work better.

Although the people who hate Quebec are very noisy and very visible, they are the minority. There is alot of bad faith from those who entertain the xenophobic hatred but, they must not get more importance than they deserve.

From the point of view of one individual's life, it looks like the issue is forever.

But from the  point of view of  the society's existence, this is a small issue in the timeline.

Compare that to Finland's Finnish people. At any giving time in the past when they were controlled by the Swedes or the Russians, the Finnish were experiencing frustrations. But today, the Finnish have no issue (or major issue) sharing a bit of their sovereignty with the Eurpean Union. This is morelss what Quebec's society aspires to. People like Moonlight Graham prefers to dig a hole and stuck their head in it. They would even pour ciment to make sure it doesn't get out. If there is no way to solve that, then so be it. Let's go for complete separation. But does it have to be done with hatred and lies? I think no. I have better expectations from my fellow Canadians.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/24/2021 at 1:27 PM, Benz said:

ok, so you are ignoring what I am saying rather than replying and you go back to your previous saying filled with ignorance and bad faith. You are showing me your limitations and your intelligible weakness. I feel sorry for you, it must be frustrating to not be able to sustain the conversation. But maybe you are not smart enough to figure you failed, so you do not realize it.

These are all chidish insults and ad hominems, and reflect a lot more on you and I.  They will all be ignored.

On 8/24/2021 at 1:27 PM, Benz said:

Just a little recap, just in case you have a sudden sparks of lucidity.

  1. The federal is not listening to the Provincial politicians, it is only filling the pockets of the Quebec federal politicians and their "friends". The people of Quebec do not win, the suckers of the federal party in power.
  2. All english speaking people in Quebec are voting Liberals. Something to make jealous any dictator of this world. The french rather vote Bloc in majority. Accusing the french for the ones sent by the english people, is totally retarded.
  3. You totally over estimate the percentage of money sent to Lavalin compared to the amount spent in other programs such as the Nuclear and the Oil and many others. no wonder why you didn't bring any numbers.
  4. The french have to fight up to the supreme court to just open a school against the province that refuses and yet, you have the nerve to say you bend over backwards. The french outside Quebec do not get from you the 20% of the respect and considerations that we do give to our fellows english in Quebec. Read the Commissioner of Official Languages for once. You should try to get out of your denial for once. Maybe you will appreciate it. Always hating people is energy consuming.
  5. We do not hate you (the people), we hate you (the stupid individuals exactly like you that keep accusing us of something you entertain). You are hypocrite. The majority of Canadians are not like you, but that is the silent majority. The minority is noisy and is unfortunately taking too much space in the politics. So no I will not STFU. I will serve you back your own projection. Because this is exactly what you deserve. There is a word to describe what you are, Xenophobic. 

1.  Just because they don't bend on every demand doesn't mean they are listening.  There's 2 french language debates before the election and only 1 in english.  They aren't ignoring Quebec, far from it.  How many debates are they holding deep in the heart of Alberta or Nunavut?

2. Ridiculous.  Why do french or bilingual Quebecois vote for Trudeau over the other non-bloc parties?

3.  It's not just money, it's political favours.  Remember the Jody Wilson Raybould disaster?

4.  What school are you referring to?  Also, Ottawa has just made its city officially bilingual inside an unilingual english province.  Has Montreal or Gatineau done the same?

5. I don't have any hatred for francophobes/Quebec.  But I know a spoiled entitled child when I see one that whines and cries whenever it doesn't get its way until mommy caves.  That's not all francophones btw, just you and certain people like you.  Thankfully most Quebecers are fairly reasonable.

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