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Do you believe that Jesus really existed ?


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On 12/27/2022 at 11:28 PM, French Patriot said:

No. Jesus would not ask you to sin.

 

On Jesus dying for Christians from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

 

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

Good morals and Jesus speak against the messianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.


Regards
DL

 

William-Shakespeare.jpg?ssl=1

"Even the devil knew how to use the scriptures well. For his own purposes "

 

I, if I were you, would think deeply about this famous phrase by William Shakespeare.

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The original post was here

https://vivaibidelli.forumattivo.com/t636p150-e-se-le-cose-cominciassero-a-precipitare#1886
https://politique.forum-actif.net/t37857p575-c-est-le-debut-de-la-fin#578855
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?t=85306&p=8716769&viewfull=1#post8716769
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/163302997
https://repolitics.com/forums/topic/41271-do-you-believe-that-jesus-really-existed/?do=findComment&comment=1598789
https://huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2906993&postid=97149412#97149412

Edited by Holubice
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[quote]bcsapper:

I think that anyone who talks about "proof" when it comes to whether God exists or not is actually full of doubts . God is based on faith, not evidence. If God existed and wanted to prove his existence, obviously he could do so with minimal effort. It's probably pretty spectacular too. It would be so much fun! But it's not. He wants you to believe. The hypothesis of the existence of evidence denies the importance of belief.

[/quote]

 

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No, @bcsapper doesn't work that way. Even if one sees with one's own eyes the famous "evidence" which asserts so much, if one does not enter the ranks of those who must believe, what one sees will not affect him. "No one comes to me but my Father" are the exact words used by the Carpenter's Son. In other words, only those who deserve it.have the right to understand these things. “You can’t see by looking. You can't hear it." This is the meaning of this phrase. And that even a miracle in some cases would be useless, this speech tells us. Scripture is a "filter" through which all people must pass. And it never happens that a man finds something wrong in them. It is in him or in his mind that there is something that makes him lean towards certain ideas and makes him hope with all his might that these things are pure fantasies. Not even a miracle would help. (1)

1) Excerpt from my sacred reference text:

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Quote

Once upon a time there was a rich man who dressed in purple and linen and every day arranged lavish feasts. (20) A beggar named Lazarus lay at his door covered in sores, (21) wanting to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even dogs came to lick his sores. [22] One day the poor man died, and the angels carried him to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. [23] Standing in hell in the midst of torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus beside him. [24] Then, shouting, he said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and wet my tongue, because this flame torments me. (25) But Abraham answered: Son! remember that you received your good during your lifetime, and Lazar also his evil; now he is comforted, and you are in the midst of torment. (26) Moreover, a great abyss is established between us and you: those who want to pass from here to you cannot, and cannot pass from here to us. (27) And he answered: “Then, father, please send him to my father's house, (28) because I have five brothers. Warn them not to come to this place of torment. [29] But Abraham answered, They have Moses and the prophets; Listen to them. (30) And he said, No, Father Abraham, but if anyone from the dead comes to them, they will repent. [31] Abraham replied: If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, none please send him to my father's house, [28] for I have five brothers. Warn them not to come to this place of torment. [29] But Abraham answered, They have Moses and the prophets; Listen to them. (30) And he said, No, Father Abraham, but if anyone from the dead comes to them, they will repent. [31] Abraham replied: If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, none please send him to my father's house, [28] for I have five brothers. Warn them not to come to this place of torment. [29] But Abraham answered, They have Moses and the prophets; Listen to them. (30) And he said, No, Father Abraham, but if anyone from the dead comes to them, they will repent. [31] Abraham replied: If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, not onerise from the dead, believe."

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The original post was here:

https://vivaibidelli.forumattivo.com/t636p150-e-se-le-cose-cominciassero-a-precipitare#1901
https://politique.forum-actif.net/t37857p600-c-est-le-debut-de-la-fin#579774
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?t=85306&p=8718229&viewfull=1#post8718229
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/163326153
https://repolitics.com/forums/topic/41271-do-you-believe-that-jesus-really-existed/?do=findComment&comment=1599970
https://huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=2906993&postid=97187341#97187341

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Years ago, I travelled in Jordan, from Amman then to Jerusalem in Israel.

At the time, it was complicated - it required various vehicles - bus and taxis. (I don't know how it is now.)

At one point, I recall sitting beside a Greek Orthodox priest. I said to him naively that the Bible was a remarkable guidebook.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 8/26/2023 at 7:26 PM, TreeBeard said:

That really does sound naive.  

It's a true story. Early 1980s. (I swam in the Dead Sea - then threw up. It's warm.)

And I crossed the border from Jordan to Israel (the Jordan River was a creek - not a river) with a Greek Orthodox priest.

=====

Treebeard,

Electrons do not really fly around protons/neutrons. It's a story.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The existence of Christ isn't really up for debate. Virtually all historians of antiquity believe he existed. Jewish and Roman people of the time wrote about Jesus, and his baptism and crucifixion are widely accepted as historical. Sure, his miracles and resurrection can be up for debate, but Jesus existed. To think otherwise is to believe in a highly fringe theory.

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18 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

The existence of Christ isn't really up for debate. Virtually all historians of antiquity believe he existed. Jewish and Roman people of the time wrote about Jesus, and his baptism and crucifixion are widely accepted as historical. Sure, his miracles and resurrection can be up for debate, but Jesus existed. To think otherwise is to believe in a highly fringe theory.

You use the term Christ, and also the term Jesus.

First. Where in the bible is Jesus ever proclaimed, elevated to, or named Christ?

Second. If a literalist on Marie the virgin, you have to see Jesus as female all of her life thanks to her biogenetic birth.

There are a number of Jesus' in the bible. Compare the Armageddon/genocide user and the nicer, " do unto others ", Jesus without the genocidal trait.

Which one do you follow?

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18 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

The existence of Christ isn't really up for debate.

As an aside.

Correct, it becomes a stupid one sided debate, as we will never know the truth unless a supernatural realm is shown to exist.

The supernatural is open to debate, and Christians hide their heads in the sand when confronted instead of trying to understand what was the best religion, before it's corruption.

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1 hour ago, French Patriot said:

As an aside.

Correct, it becomes a stupid one sided debate, as we will never know the truth unless a supernatural realm is shown to exist.

The supernatural is open to debate, and Christians hide their heads in the sand when confronted instead of trying to understand what was the best religion, before it's corruption.

I didn't say Jesus was God. I used "Christ" in a way that a person would use "Trudeau" to describe our Prime Minister. You can debate the attributes the Bible gives Jesus, sure, but virtually all scholars are certain the historical Jesus existed. You sound like one of those people who get upset when someone prays for you instead of giving you a scientific hypothesis...

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19 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

sure, but virtually all scholars are certain the historical Jesus existed.

Almost no scholar believes in the supernatural, so your statement is a flat out lie.

Most scholars have better morals than believers who will accept Jesus as a messiah.

They know how immoral that coward's concept is of abdicating ones responsibilities is. 

Christian don't get that but moral people do.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/19/2023 at 7:27 PM, bcsapper said:

There's a big difference between existing and being the son of a God.  My Gran existed, but she wasn't the son of a God.  Same with Jesus.

Jesus indicated that we were all equal with his, --- have ye forgotten that ye are Gods and children of the most high?

It is almost only Gnostic Christians who have the right view in that God creates all souls of the same value. Perfect.

There is a lot of trash in the streets of Eden, but God does not add to it with under valued souls, ----- LGBTQ+ included, ---- for all the right wing haters.

 

 

On 11/5/2023 at 1:00 PM, theMadArtist said:

Yes, I believe he did- but not as Churchianity has him!

Immoral scapegoat concept?

 

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2 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Is it showing you a good God or an evil God?

Scripture says it's ok to buy slaves from neighboring countries.

Scripture says we need to kill our neighbors if they shave their faces.

Scripture says that if your testicles get crushed, you are no longer welcome in heaven.

Scripture says that you must cut off your wife's hand if she touches the testicles of the man attacking you.

so, that said, what do you think?
 

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