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Do you believe that Jesus really existed ?


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  • 1 month later...

I would have to say that I wish Jesus existed, but I don't really believe that he did.

I have several reasons to not believe that he's not real.

1.  In the temptation in the desert, Jesus used the phrase "It is written."  If the written scriptures were so important to Jesus then why didn't he write anything himself?  Theologians debate for hundreds of years on issues that Jesus could have settled by simply writing his own authoritative scripture, but he didn't.

2.  I believe it's the Gospel of John that mentions that people rose from the dead and came into Jerusalem after the crucifixion.  This would have been big news, but no writers of the period mention this event at all!

3.  The earliest writers of the Church use scriptural references in their writings, but not one of them ever mentions anything that an apostle actually said to them, or what any apostle said to anyone else that isn't written in scripture.  This seems strange since if the Jesus was real, and his apostles are real, then the early Church writers should have had real experiences to draw from that were outside of the scriptures.

4.  Jesus's mythology seems to have borrowed from MIthraism, Judaism, Buhdism, and etc...  

5.  Christianity believes in only one life, and then judgement, but in the gospels, reincarnation is alluded to.

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17 hours ago, FurriesRock said:

I would have to say that I wish Jesus existed, but I don't really believe that he did.

I have several reasons to not believe that he's not real.

1.  In the temptation in the desert, Jesus used the phrase "It is written."  If the written scriptures were so important to Jesus then why didn't he write anything himself?  Theologians debate for hundreds of years on issues that Jesus could have settled by simply writing his own authoritative scripture, but he didn't.

2.  I believe it's the Gospel of John that mentions that people rose from the dead and came into Jerusalem after the crucifixion.  This would have been big news, but no writers of the period mention this event at all!

3.  The earliest writers of the Church use scriptural references in their writings, but not one of them ever mentions anything that an apostle actually said to them, or what any apostle said to anyone else that isn't written in scripture.  This seems strange since if the Jesus was real, and his apostles are real, then the early Church writers should have had real experiences to draw from that were outside of the scriptures.

4.  Jesus's mythology seems to have borrowed from MIthraism, Judaism, Buhdism, and etc...  

5.  Christianity believes in only one life, and then judgement, but in the gospels, reincarnation is alluded to.

This short article substantiates the fact that Jesus did live on earth.  References to the fact are also recorded by secular (non-Christian individuals who lived at the time.  Two off hand were Tacitus and Josephus, a Jewish historian.

It makes no sense to say Jesus should have written Scriptures himself, when in fact, he is the Son of God or the third person of the trinity.  As such he is God.  The Bible teaches that men who wrote the Scriptures were inspired by God to write them.  In the beginning of the gospel of John,  Jesus is referred to as the Word.  The word is the Scriptures or Bible.  

Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ? | GotQuestions.org

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4 hours ago, blackbird said:

This short article substantiates the fact that Jesus did live on earth.  References to the fact are also recorded by secular (non-Christian individuals who lived at the time.  Two off hand were Tacitus and Josephus, a Jewish historian.

It makes no sense to say Jesus should have written Scriptures himself, when in fact, he is the Son of God or the third person of the trinity.  As such he is God.  The Bible teaches that men who wrote the Scriptures were inspired by God to write them.  In the beginning of the gospel of John,  Jesus is referred to as the Word.  The word is the Scriptures or Bible.  

Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ? | GotQuestions.org

Tacitus and Josephus only record that a story about a guy named Jesus was in circulation.  Neither one references a big event like people rising from the dead and coming to Jerusalem.

Why would God himself not write anything when on Earth if the written word were so important to him?  That doesn't make sense that God would only ever rely on sketchy second and third hand accounts.

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6 hours ago, FurriesRock said:

Tacitus and Josephus only record that a story about a guy named Jesus was in circulation.  Neither one references a big event like people rising from the dead and coming to Jerusalem.

Why would God himself not write anything when on Earth if the written word were so important to him?  That doesn't make sense that God would only ever rely on sketchy second and third hand accounts.

The Bible is the written revelation from God to mankind.  That is the way God chose to reveal his revelation.  Perhaps if you studied the Bible, the answer to your question might come to you more clearly.  But you prefer the answer given to you on a silver platter.  That's not how it works.  The truth is there.  It's up to you to read it.  

As for Jesus, the New Testament gospels are an account of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection on earth.  He was seen by many eyewitnesses after the resurrection.  There is no need for people outside the biblical writers to give that account.  Also, Israel was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. and probably almost everything written down was destroyed.  The early Christians were also outside that area in the first century and the writers of the N.T. survived the Roman destruction in 70A.D.  He also performed many miracles which are recorded in the gospels, proving he is who he said he was and proving he is God.

1 Corinthians ch2 explains a little of what we are talking about.

quote

11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. {judgeth: or, discerneth} {judged: or, discerned} 16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.   Unquote 1 Corinthians 2:11-16 KJV

You may gather from this that before someone can make any sense of the Bible or believe it, one must have a degree of an open mind or a willingness to learn about what it is saying.  Ask God to open your mind.  That is about all I can suggest.

Edited by blackbird
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On 6/20/2022 at 1:06 PM, blackbird said:

The Bible is the written revelation from God to mankind. 

This is an outright lie that tarnishes all you say after.

The only thing of God that it reveals to those foolish enough to believe in the supernatural, is that the Yahweh/Jesus combo is a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous prick.

That is a truth of your vile God that I can argue and that you cannot argue against.

To follow the Gnostic Christian Jesus, I do not have to lie.

Perhaps you should look into him.

Regards

DL

 

 

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If Jesus existed, it proves that someone like him could even exist in this world at all. Which is the deeper question. Note that he was quickly butchered however, even by the everyday folk, the dunderheads who cheered when they offered him up, while letting the villainous murderer go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas

According to all four canonical gospels there was a prevailing Passover custom in Jerusalem that allowed Pilate to commute one prisoner's death sentence by popular acclaim.  According to the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and the account in John, the crowd chose Barabbas to be released and Jesus of Nazareth to be crucified.

These same writers refer to Barabbas as a "notorious prisoner... who had committed murder". Notorious meaning he was well-known.

So in other words they made that choice wilfully. The first thing men did when they encountered their god... was kill him.

That sounds about right. So, it is possible.

Edited by OftenWrong
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2 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Many myths are possible.

The myth already shows the problem. What the clamouring masses chose was treachery and murder, even unto themselves. Self harm one of the hallmarks of leftism, or better yet liberal society.

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  • 6 months later...
On 12/25/2022 at 10:21 AM, arikel88 said:

Jesus did came and he died for us.

No. Jesus would not ask you to sin.

 

On Jesus dying for Christians from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

 

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.

Good morals and Jesus speak against the messianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.


Regards
DL

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/4/2021 at 4:02 PM, Jean-Kevin said:

"Did Jesus Even Exist ?" Youtube video and you can find another videos of him about Jesus or rather someting to go Jesus is a complet fiction.

I don't know if there is a Yeshua ben Yosef would have existed but this personage don't need a matérial basis to exist. Every element of his biography seems to be modelled on a text from the Old Testament. 

The JEWS believed Jesus existed. (They just didn't believe he was the son of God.)

Muslims believed in Jesus as a prophet. They actually had great respect for him.

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22 hours ago, reason10 said:

The JEWS believed Jesus existed. (They just didn't believe he was the son of God.)

Muslims believed in Jesus as a prophet. They actually had great respect for him.

I disagree.

They do not respect Jesus any more than Christians do.

If those who say they do would live by the Golden Rule instead of homophobia and misogyny, I might believe you.

They do not live by their most important rule. Right?

Regards

DL

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23 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

I disagree.

They do not respect Jesus any more than Christians do.

If those who say they do would live by the Golden Rule instead of homophobia and misogyny, I might believe you.

They do not live by their most important rule. Right?

Regards

DL

I didn't say Muslims respected Jesus more than Christians.  They do consider Jesus to be a great prophet and should be respected. Christians on the other hand view Jesus as the son of God.

There is no such thing as homophobia. That is a bullshittt left wing fairy tale made up by fools who want to legitimize a very sick and perverted lifestyle. No reasonable person has a problem with what two men do behind closed doors, so long as they keep it behind closed doors and away from children.

I'm curious as to who would foster a prejudice against women (which is the definition of the word "misogyny.") Today, (unlike earlier versions of our history) women have equal rights in the United States, as equal as it gets. It wasn't always the case. At one time a woman wasn't allowed to vote. Of course, this business of letting men put on dresses and compete in women's sports is the ULTIMATE misoygny of all.

(If you REALLY want to get a textbook view of real misogyny, check out any Muslim country, where women are required to wear a burqu, are not permitted to vote, are not permitted to work a job or attend school.)

As far as rules to live one's life by, you have a lot to choose from. The Bible is a rule book as is the Koran. The US Code is the United States statues. The Constitution is supposed to be the supreme law of the land. Of course, each individual state has its own constitution and statutes.

And the Reporter volumes you see in law offices represent appellate opinions, which are LAWS that are legislated from the bench.

You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out rules.

Sometimes, just being a decent and educated person is the only real rule to follow.

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3 hours ago, reason10 said:

You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out rules.

Given that Gnostic Christianity is peopled by free thinking esoteric ecumenists, we are dedicated to perpetually seeking the best rules and laws to live life by. Name anything more fulfilling.

Perhaps you think that idol worship of some genocidal mass murdering God more fulfilling?

 

3 hours ago, reason10 said:

legitimize a very sick and perverted lifestyle.

I thought you said above that homophobia did not exist?

Regards

DL

 

 

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3 hours ago, reason10 said:

Today, (unlike earlier versions of our history) women have equal rights in the United States, as equal as it gets.

While a real moral person would always put women and children above themselves.

You show your inferiority as a man.

You have no sense of duty or honor.

Nice rules you have. Not.

Regards

DL

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6 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

While a real moral person would always put women and children above themselves.

You show your inferiority as a man.

You have no sense of duty or honor.

Nice rules you have. Not.

Regards

DL

Which reminds me of what Don Trump said when asked about his position on equality.

"I cherish women."

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17 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

Given that Gnostic Christianity is peopled by free thinking esoteric ecumenists, we are dedicated to perpetually seeking the best rules and laws to live life by. Name anything more fulfilling.

Perhaps you think that idol worship of some genocidal mass murdering God more fulfilling?

 

I thought you said above that homophobia did not exist?

Regards

DL

 

 

I was going to join that group but then I thought, I could never join a group that has given itself a label. Gnostic somethin, maybe. Or gnosis just a little bit. 

or what Plato said at the end of his lectures.

Ps it could also be

jesus is the antichrist

Edited by OftenWrong
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22 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I was going to join that group but then I thought, I could never join a group that has given itself a label. Gnostic somethin, maybe. Or gnosis just a little bit. 

or what Plato said at the end of his lectures.

Ps it could also be

jesus is the antichrist

Being a heretic to my born into religion, Catholicism, does not mean that I do not owe it, as my original tribe, a lot.

Without Catholicism, even with it's flaws, earned my loyalty and it is now my duty to try to convert all Christians to a better understanding of God.

The label is a status that is earned.

To your last. ----  To a Gnostic Christian all should be anti the Christ who is to return with Armageddon and yet another genocide of man.

That Jesus is a really evil God.

Regards

DL 

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