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Do you believe in a divine Creator of the universe and everything in it, including mankind?


blackbird

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4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

A short “yes” or “no” response to the “Do you take the Bible literally?” question, then, would not be helpful.

It would be of the reality of Jesus.

Is he your savior, as the apostles creed you likely swore, says you must believe?

Are you one of the immoral who will sin to be saved by abdicating Jesus' own laws?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:


Regards

DL

 

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2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Nobody denies dinosaurs existed.  So that is a phony claim.  A talking serpent could well have happened.  As I said these events are supernatural in nature.  If you don't believe in the supernatural, there's not much anyone can say.  You have a mental block.

Indeed; called sanity and a decent moral sense, Satan.

Who taught an animal without vocal cords to speak,--- and who is more sane, --- one who idolizes a genocidal god the way you do, --- or one who would condemn such a vile degenerate god to hell?

I look forward to more of your deflections. 

Regards

DL 

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4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Maybe a better question would be “how do you know what to take in the bible literally and what not to”?

You take Genesis literally.

Do you take literally that you shouldn’t work on the Sabbath and those who do should be put to death?

If you don’t take this literally, why not?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Good question.  The answer for me is I have been blessed to have been exposed to dispensational theology beginning through a Minister at a church I attended.  Then books and articles on the internet on the dispensations.  This divides the Bible into different ages or dispensations.  The Old Testament, which you quoted, only applies to the nation of Israel at that time or age in history.  The church age began in the New Testament age or age of grace.  The beginning of the Church age is described in the beginning of the book of Acts.  Therefore the Church is not under the Old Testament laws and commandment given to Israel in the first five books of the Bible.  Although the ten commandments for the most part are universally accepted as applicable today, perhaps because their principles are re-stated in the New Testament in some ways.  In regard to the sabbath laws, that was strictly directed to the nation of Israel in Old Testament times and does not apply to the Church today.   But the principle of a day of rest of one day in seven is a universal principle because God rested on the seventh day after he created everything.  We recognize Sunday as the day of rest, but it is not a Biblical commandment.   Perhaps one studying the Bible might realize the Church started in the New Testament era, but there are many different interpretations of the Bible.  That is why there are so many different denominations, although most Protestant denominations still agree on some of the basic teachings.  For more information on dispensational theology,  you can Google it as well as read this article:

Dispensational Theology - The Gospel Coalition

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15 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Jesus said he did not come to change the Law.  Is there passages in the New Testament that you can point to that changes the Sabbath?

Colossians 2:16

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”

King James Version (KJV)

Also see:

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT LAW AND GRACE (kingjamesbibleonline.org)

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Colossians 2:16

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”

King James Version (KJV)

Also see:

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT LAW AND GRACE (kingjamesbibleonline.org)

If we’re to take Genesis literally, clearly that throws out anything like evolution theory. 
 

But you would agree that evolution is a completely mainstream idea and the basis of almost all biological science, correct?  
 

What other branches of science don’t conform to the bible and should be tossed out?

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3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Jesus said he did not come to change the Law.  Is there passages in the New Testament that you can point to that changes the Sabbath?

Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

As the Jews taught at that time, man was above god.

Jesus also askes, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

Most have. Not Gnostic Christians.

Regards

DL

 

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2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

If we’re to take Genesis literally, clearly that throws out anything like evolution theory. 
 

But you would agree that evolution is a completely mainstream idea and the basis of almost all biological science, correct?  
 

What other branches of science don’t conform to the bible and should be tossed out?

Bible believers don't have much control over what the non-believing world does and evolution is taught in the public schools systems, probably practically everywhere.   It is not the job of Bible believers or churches to change the world system which is basically under the control of Satan.  The main thing for Bible believers and churches is to share the gospel.  I don't think a lot of energy should be wasted on trying to change the world's belief system on those periphery issues.  Not likely going to convince anyone who doesn't believe the Bible.   I'm not sure what you believe.  Do you have any beliefs?

The only thing offhand I can think of that would not conform to the Bible is the old earth theories which claim the earth is millions or hundreds of millions of years old.  A well-known Bible theologian has estimated the age of the earth at around six to ten thousand years I believe, although there is no precise age given or known.  The apparent old age of earth is explained by viewing it as having been created with an apparent old age at the time of creation, a supernatural event.  People who do not believe in a God of the Bible who has supernatural, infinite power would likely believe whatever the world tells them.

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14 hours ago, blackbird said:

The main thing for Bible believers and churches is to share the gospel.  I don't think a lot of energy should be wasted on trying to change the world's belief system on those periphery issues. 

You think the world is controlled by Satan, and yet you think it’s a periphery issue?  

Shouldn’t that be the most important issue ever?
 

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

Do you have any beliefs?

Of course!  Everyone has beliefs.  
 

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

The only thing offhand I can think of that would not conform to the Bible is the old earth theories which claim the earth is millions or hundreds of millions of years old.

What about the causes of disease?  Certainly the bible doesn’t say anything about germs causing disease.  It mentions disease being the results of sin.  But we now know, through the same scientific method as we know about evolution, that diseases are caused by germs.

Why, if Satan was controlling science, would he have given us germ theory…. Should we be thanking Satan for that?  Thanks you Satan for saving countless millions of lives and alleviating suffering by allowing us to discover Germ Theory.
 

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

People who do not believe in a God of the Bible who has supernatural, infinite power would likely believe whatever the world tells them.

Couldn’t the same thing be said of people who believe the bible to be true? 

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10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You think the world is controlled by Satan, and yet you think it’s a periphery issue?  

Shouldn’t that be the most important issue ever?
 

Of course!  Everyone has beliefs.  
 

What about the causes of disease?  Certainly the bible doesn’t say anything about germs causing disease.  It mentions disease being the results of sin.  But we now know, through the same scientific method as we know about evolution, that diseases are caused by germs.

Why, if Satan was controlling science, would he have given us germ theory…. Should we be thanking Satan for that?  Thanks you Satan for saving countless millions of lives and alleviating suffering by allowing us to discover Germ Theory.
 

Couldn’t the same thing be said of people who believe the bible to be true? 

Well I guess Creation versus the Theory of Evolution is not a periphery issue, but some people are just not open to anything.  I wouldn't say it is the most important issue ever.  The question of where one is heading is pretty important;   heaven or hell.

I'm not sure I said Satan was controlling science.  He is a dominant force in the world system.   I can't say he controls things like science.  That doesn't sound like the correct way to look at it.  He does seem to control much of the world's thinking though.  But God is greater and God can convince anyone of anything if he so chooses to do so.   You could download a book called "Satan" by Lewis Sperry Chafer on Amazon.  The kindle version is not too expensive.  That will tell you probably more than you want to know but you will learn an incredible amount if you take it in.   

I could tell you a little about Satan, his origin and goal.   He was one of God's most beautiful angels in heaven in the distant past.  There is a common belief he is an ugly being with horns or some other grotesque figure.  But this is not correct. 

"15  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16  By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17  Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18  Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19  All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."  Ezekiel 28:15-18 KJB

There is information about him if you put "Satan origin" or similar wording in a search window.  He is quite willing to do anything to achieve his goal to be like the most high, God.  He has most of the world deceived into believing he doesn't even exist.  That allows him to work on his agenda.  I will let you dig into it.  Let me know what you find out.

I am not sure what you meant with the last line, "couldn't the same thing be said of people who believe the bible to be true?"

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On 10/22/2021 at 9:47 AM, TreeBeard said:

You think the world is controlled by Satan, and yet you think it’s a periphery issue?  

Shouldn’t that be the most important issue ever?
 

 

You are correct to a degree, but I would add many dispute the existence of the Biblical God and his creation of the universe and mankind and his involvement with mankind in the way the Bible describes.  So that issue should be the most important.  But it is difficult to say absolutely what is the most important issue ever.  If one does not believe in the Biblical God, then that is a stumbling block and major issue too.  There is a video of a 1 hour 47 minute debate between the famous atheist, Richard Dawkins and John Lennox, which you may find interesting.

Richard Dawkins vs John Lennox | The God Delusion Debate - Bing video

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  • 5 months later...
On 7/30/2021 at 12:43 PM, blackbird said:

 

You want proof of God, there it is in microscopic form.

cell.jpg

Proof of God lies in every living cell, human or animal, in every living organ, in every living human, animal or plant but equally if not more so in the entire expanding Universe. Billions upon Billions of factors must be precisely designed as they are and fine tuned to the billions of accuracy for the entire Universe some billions of light years in diameter to support life on one planet we call it earth, the size of which compared to Universe is far smaller than the size of the smallest living organism, a bacteria to planet earth!!!!!!!!!!!!.

The question is why we have so much sufferings in the world and the powerful God does nothing about it?.

On another point, God himself may be kind and powerful however, it is the mankind who has made evil out of him. The messengers never said beat up the women with bad hijab (likr they do in islamic republic) or deprive women from equal rights and education (like in Taliban Afghanistan) but it is the mullahs who for their own power do all these not for God. It was the Christian priests and not the God who abuse their power and cause so much sufferings in Europe in 16th to 18th centuries. 

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14 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Proof of God lies in every living cell, human or animal, in every living organ, in every living human, animal or plant but equally if not more so in the entire expanding Universe. Billions upon Billions of factors must be precisely designed as they are and fine tuned to the billions of accuracy for the entire Universe some billions of light years in diameter to support life on one planet we call it earth, the size of which compared to Universe is far smaller than the size of the smallest living organism, a bacteria to planet earth!!!!!!!!!!!!.

The question is why we have so much sufferings in the world and the powerful God does nothing about it?.

On another point, God himself may be kind and powerful however, it is the mankind who has made evil out of him. The messengers never said beat up the women with bad hijab (likr they do in islamic republic) or deprive women from equal rights and education (like in Taliban Afghanistan) but it is the mullahs who for their own power do all these not for God. It was the Christian priests and not the God who abuse their power and cause so much sufferings in Europe in 16th to 18th centuries. 

Correct with a few clarifications I would add.   God created the universe according to Genesis.  God is transcendent or separate from the creation.  The creation is not God and God is not a part of creation.  He is a separate spirit and existed through eternity past before he created the universe.

The question of suffering is answered by the fall of man when Adam and Eve rebelled against God.  The universe became a corrupt fallen place.

Why Is There Suffering? | Bible.org

The so-called "Christian" priests , who abused their power and caused suffering, may not have been Christian as they were not following the Bible but rather a false religious system.  The Holy Roman Inquisition went on for four hundred years, but the false religious system existed far longer than that.  When the Roman Empire collapsed in the early centuries, the Papacy or Holy Roman Empire took over and controlled controlled kings and countries for centuries.

 

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52 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 

The question of suffering is answered by the fall of man when Adam and Eve rebelled against God.  The universe became a corrupt fallen place

 

Science has proven evolution. Adam and Eve theory rejected by modern science. We are all evolution of a very simple microscopic life on earth over billions of years. There was no creation of Adam and Eve,

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Science has proven evolution. Adam and Eve theory rejected by modern science. We are all evolution of a very simple microscopic life on earth over billions of years. There was no creation of Adam and Eve,

No, science has not proven evolution.  If you are serious about knowing the truth, you could start by reading some of these articles.  There are about 790 articles on the subject at this link.  

Refuting Evolution: Foreword & Introduction - creation.com

This is just the beginning.  There are many aspects to this.  You need to do some serious study.  I cannot boil it down to a few sentences on here for you.  I have tried that with others on here before and realize it is a waste of time.  Most people are not serious on here about anything to do with theology or biblical matters.   If you are serious about knowing the truth, you will have to put some effort into it yourself.  

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Science has proven evolution. Adam and Eve theory rejected by modern science. We are all evolution of a very simple microscopic life on earth over billions of years. There was no creation of Adam and Eve,

I have a new book which I have not had time to read yet, but the title pretty well answers your comment.

"Darwin's Universe:   From Nothing, By Nothing, For Nothing  -- Survival for Nothing"  by Yan T. Wee.

This refers to the fact evolutionists have no explanation for why man is here.  To them the universe and mankind were just some kind of cosmic accident.  That makes absolutely no sense at all.  If you believe in the theory of evolution, you have a serious problem because then you have a number of impossible questions to answer.  First how did a complex universe suddenly appear out of nothing?   Secondly, why?  Why does the universe and mankind exist?  Evolutionists have no answer because apart from God there is no answer.

quote

We are just walking molecules, birthed through a cosmic accident, dancing to the music of our DNA, and destined to disappear in a cosmic blink - nothing less, nothing else.

And when we look to science and evolution for answers, all we get is a blank look.  Life has no real purpose dude - it is about the survival of the genes in us - feeding, fending, fleeting and fathering - just live through it and get it over.  Our final destination is the hole in the ground.

But is it true?  Perhaps we are:  From Someone, By Someone, For Someone.  Perhaps there is an unexplored and awesome universe beyond the Darwinian world of survival for nothing.   Unquote

back cover of the book.

The question is are we here as just a (Darwinian) cosmic accident or is there a reason for our existence?

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46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I have a new book which I have not had time to read yet, but the title pretty well answers your comment.

"Darwin's Universe:   From Nothing, By Nothing, For Nothing  -- Survival for Nothing"  by Yan T. Wee.

This refers to the fact evolutionists have no explanation for why man is here.  To them the universe and mankind were just some kind of cosmic accident.  That makes absolutely no sense at all.  If you believe in the theory of evolution, you have a serious problem because then you have a number of impossible questions to answer.  First how did a complex universe suddenly appear out of nothing?   Secondly, why?  Why does the universe and mankind exist?  Evolutionists have no answer because apart from God there is no answer.

quote

We are just walking molecules, birthed through a cosmic accident, dancing to the music of our DNA, and destined to disappear in a cosmic blink - nothing less, nothing else.

And when we look to science and evolution for answers, all we get is a blank look.  Life has no real purpose dude - it is about the survival of the genes in us - feeding, fending, fleeting and fathering - just live through it and get it over.  Our final destination is the hole in the ground.

But is it true?  Perhaps we are:  From Someone, By Someone, For Someone.  Perhaps there is an unexplored and awesome universe beyond the Darwinian world of survival for nothing.   Unquote

back cover of the book.

The question is are we here as just a (Darwinian) cosmic accident or is there a reason for our existence?

Evolution is AFTER creation of Universe. I am not arguing the creation but rather the fact that Adam and Eve were created as whole humans. Science has proven evolution that that does not contradict the creation of Universe but rather creation of humans.

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18 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Evolution is AFTER creation of Universe. I am not arguing the creation but rather the fact that Adam and Eve were created as whole humans. Science has proven evolution that that does not contradict the creation of Universe but rather creation of humans.

If you are just going to stick with a one-liner without reading anything, we probably are wasting our time.  Science has not proven the theory of evolution.  Why do you think it is called a theory?  A theory is just that, an unproven speculation.

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

If you are just going to stick with a one-liner without reading anything, we probably are wasting our time.  Science has not proven the theory of evolution.  Why do you think it is called a theory?  A theory is just that, an unproven speculation.

And what is Adam and Eve creation? A fact or a legend or story said in a book (bible)?

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44 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

And what is Adam and Eve creation? A fact or a legend or story said in a book (bible)?

Why believe the Bible?  Here are some answers.

Why should I believe the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

The Bible claims to be the word of God and proves it.

Why Believe the Bible? | SES

"The Bible consistently claims to be the word of the one and only true God (Genesis 1:1; Revelation 22:20-21). From beginning to end, prophets appear in its pages claiming to speak the word of God. They not only make this claim, but they offer multiple miracles to their listeners and multiple prophecies to their readers to back up what they are saying is from God. The miracles they do are clearly in the category of what only God can do. They create life from non-life (Exodus 8:19) and raise the dead (1 Kings 17:17-24). They include predictions hundreds of years in advance (Daniel 9:25-27). Such signs are unmistakable from the true God. Such miracles and prophecies are used to back up the spoken and written word from the prophets (see Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elisha, Jesus and Paul). The true God would never allow real miracle or prophecy to be done through a false teacher or false religion. So, the religion that contains true miracles is the true religion. This is what separates Christianity from other religions and their books.

The Bible is historically accurate about Jesus’s life, death and resurrection.

We know the Bible is historically accurate because it was faithfully copied from the originals and the content, what it says occurred, happened much of which can be verified. The number of hand-written manuscripts is more than enough to establish a text that is faithful to the originals. These manuscripts show a direct line very close to the time the originals were written and the vast numbers (over 5,000) allows experts to compare them and come to the most reliable reading. It is a true saying, that if we are to doubt the text of the Bible, we must throw out all the works of antiquity as well."

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4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Why believe the Bible?  Here are some answers.

Why should I believe the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

The Bible claims to be the word of God and proves it.

Why Believe the Bible? | SES

"The Bible consistently claims to be the word of the one and only true God (Genesis 1:1; Revelation 22:20-21). From beginning to end, prophets appear in its pages claiming to speak the word of God. They not only make this claim, but they offer multiple miracles to their listeners and multiple prophecies to their readers to back up what they are saying is from God. The miracles they do are clearly in the category of what only God can do. They create life from non-life (Exodus 8:19) and raise the dead (1 Kings 17:17-24). They include predictions hundreds of years in advance (Daniel 9:25-27). Such signs are unmistakable from the true God. Such miracles and prophecies are used to back up the spoken and written word from the prophets (see Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elisha, Jesus and Paul). The true God would never allow real miracle or prophecy to be done through a false teacher or false religion. So, the religion that contains true miracles is the true religion. This is what separates Christianity from other religions and their books.

The Bible is historically accurate about Jesus’s life, death and resurrection.

We know the Bible is historically accurate because it was faithfully copied from the originals and the content, what it says occurred, happened much of which can be verified. The number of hand-written manuscripts is more than enough to establish a text that is faithful to the originals. These manuscripts show a direct line very close to the time the originals were written and the vast numbers (over 5,000) allows experts to compare them and come to the most reliable reading. It is a true saying, that if we are to doubt the text of the Bible, we must throw out all the works of antiquity as well."

So what about all those religions who ever so strongly claim to come from God AFER Christianity and their so called holly book written after bible?  If Christ is the true one and complete and only one as so claimed then why God had to send Mohammad and others after Christ?

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1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So what about all those religions who ever so strongly claim to come from God AFER Christianity and their so called holly book written after bible?  If Christ is the true one and complete and only one as so claimed then why God had to send Mohammad and others after Christ?

You answered so fast you just proved you never read anything.

If you take the time to study the Bible and consider the points which prove the Bible is from God, you will understand that other religions that came after Christianity are false.  They have no similar Bible that they can prove came from God.  The bible proves it is from God which these articles explain but you never bothered reading.

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26 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You answered so fast you just proved you never read anything.

If you take the time to study the Bible and consider the points which prove the Bible is from God, you will understand that other religions that came after Christianity are false.  They have no similar Bible that they can prove came from God.  The bible proves it is from God which these articles explain but you never bothered reading.

I read your post which I believe have summarized the articles. 

I have been to a number of bible studies in my student life and I was never convinced beyond reasonable doubt or even close to beyond reasonable doubt to be of any kind of proof.

So assuming your legend on Adam and Eve is indeed true. You justified many sufferings in the world for what Adam and Eve did!!!!!!!! Why should billions of their children pay a price for their sin or mistake if they committed it. If true then it represents God as revengeful and unmerciful,  I don't believe this is true.

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