Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: no but God does help reduce nastiness and increase decency if the societies his followers built are any indication No, I think the opposite is true. Look at the secular world's adoption of women's and gay rights, compared to the religious world's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bcsapper said: No, I think the opposite is true. Look at the secular world's adoption of women's and gay rights, compared to the religious world's. the secular world came out of the religious world, the Christian world in particular it stems from Romans 13 render unto Caesar what is Caesar's render unto God what is God's that is the foundation of the separation of church and state it is not a coincidence that the secular countries you speak so highly of are majority Christian nations none of the nations you speak so highly of, are majority some other religion or atheist also not a coincidence you may refuse to give Christianity it's due but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve it it means you are living in denial Edited July 2, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: the secular world came out of the religious world, the Christian world in particular it stems from Romans 13 Yes, for a while religion was a lot more common and more powerful than it is today. It's good that its influence is waning. I just wish it would wane everywhere, and not just here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 21 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Bollocks. People do that or they don't. God has nothing to do with it. Theology is also about ideas. Ideas are what shape political movements and become enshrined in law. Besides, one cannot simply argue by the automatic nay-saying of what the other person says. I mean, come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Just now, OftenWrong said: Theology is also about ideas. Ideas are what shape political movements and become enshrined in law. Besides, one cannot simply argue by the automatic nay-saying of what the other person says. I mean, come on. You can if you're arguing about God. In fact, it's the only way to argue about God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Yes, for a while religion was a lot more common and more powerful than it is today. It's good that its influence is waning. I just wish it would wane everywhere, and not just here. when it wanes too much millions get killed by atheists God is dead is a lament not an exhalation be careful what you wish for Nietzsche knows Edited July 2, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: when it wanes too much millions get killed by atheists God is dead is a lament not an exhalation be careful what you wish for Nietzsche knows No, I don't think so. it's waning in the western democracies and the rights of minorities are in the ascendance. Is Nietzsche like Calvin and Hobbes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, bcsapper said: You can if you're arguing about God. In fact, it's the only way to argue about God. I guess you must not read very carefully then, when I said how its ideas influenced the development of modern law. When you go back and time and see the church's barbarism compared to our standards today, you need to also see the same barbarism is there, in society. In fact church, society, they are all reflections of the same thing, that is the attitude of the people at the time. Today's church is more moderate than ever, even embracing modern ideas like homosexual union. It is every bit as fair to hold the church accountable for its historic failings as it is to hold governments and nations. As long as we're all in, ok by me. But if we give someone a pass, everybody gets a pass. Start tomorrow with a clean slate. That's why chalkboards have erasers. Edited July 2, 2021 by OftenWrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: I guess you must not read very carefully then, when I said how its ideas influenced the development of modern law. When you go back and time and see the church's barbarism compared to our standards today, you need to also see the same barbarism is there, in society. In fact church, society, they are all reflections of the same thing, that is the attitude of the people at the time. Today's church is more moderate than ever, even embracing modern ideas like homosexual union. It is every bit as fair to hold the church accountable for its historic failings as it is to hold governments and nations. As long as we're all in, ok by me. But if we give someone a pass, everybody gets a pass. Start tomorrow with a clean slate. That's why school chalkboards have erasers. Sure, I can't argue with that. Not all of the Church is more moderate than ever, but I agree some aspects of its dogma are softening. My point is that it is not the Church that does it for the rest of us. I would be good regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I would be good regardless. Probably because you were raised in a christian society and had the good example all around you. You chose not to be religious, and thanks to our society whose foundations are based upon a tolerant christian law, you are free to do that. All thanks to the church... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Probably because you were raised in a christian society and had the good example all around you. You chose not to be religious, and thanks to our society whose foundations are based upon a tolerant christian law, you are free to do that. All thanks to the church... I was beaten by nuns. And they told me there were no such things as dinosaurs. I figured out goodness on my own. Edited July 2, 2021 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: I was beaten by nuns. And they told me there was no such things as dinosaurs. I figured out goodness on my own. My babysitter hit me lots. My mom noticed the bruises and asked. They said I pood in the wrong potty, or something. I got over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 minute ago, OftenWrong said: My babysitter hit me lots. My mom noticed the bruises and asked. They said I pood in the wrong potty, or something. I got over it. Maybe that's why you are religious. Was your babysitter an atheist? Nevertheless, I figured out how to be a decent person all on my own. Notwithstanding the efforts of those at school and church to have me turn out otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Maybe that's why you are religious. Was your babysitter an atheist? Nevertheless, I figured out how to be a decent person all on my own. Notwithstanding the efforts of those at school and church to have me turn out otherwise. I am not religious, but making presumptions is a strong leftist trait. And their undoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Nuns, hey? Perhaps your school was a little different in ye olde England. I always heard about the mean and nasty teachers, who would utterly berate and punish students in front of the rest of the class. Presumably they wore their habit after work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: I am not religious, but making presumptions is a strong leftist trait. And their undoing. I think presumption knows no wings. Except maybe those of the nut variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Nuns, hey? Perhaps your school was a little different in ye olde England. I always heard about the mean and nasty teachers, who would utterly berate and punish students in front of the rest of the class. Presumably they wore their habit after work... Yes. To this day I have a distrust of Magpies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 53 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Yes. To this day I have a distrust of Magpies... Penguins, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 Just now, OftenWrong said: Penguins, too? Great! I never thought about penguins. I guess Antarctica is out as a potential holiday destination now. Thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antichrist Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: I don't see how evolution or the big bang suggest that a divine creator isn't behind them nothing in either of those theories suggests that is the case and in fact many of scientists who developed these theories are in fact Christians false dichotomy being asserted here, that Christianity and science aren't compatible intelligent design leaves room for both to be correct and reinforcing the other Intelligent Design: the great Scopes-like controversy of this generation. That baseless belief of a rag tag bunch of Bible-thumping fundamentalists who sadistically try to pull pseudoscientific wool over the eyes of poor, uneducated, unsuspecting citizens and send us back to a pre-scientific stone age where the Earth was at the center of the Universe, the sick were bled out for treatment, and... ugh… it’s just creationism in a cheap tuxedo! “When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.” Edited July 2, 2021 by Antichrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 3, 2021 Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Antichrist said: Intelligent Design: the great Scopes-like controversy of this generation. That baseless belief of a rag tag bunch of Bible-thumping fundamentalists who sadistically try to pull pseudoscientific wool over the eyes of poor, uneducated, unsuspecting citizens and send us back to a pre-scientific stone age where the Earth was at the center of the Universe, the sick were bled out for treatment, and... ugh… it’s just creationism in a cheap tuxedo! “When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.” strawman city many of the best scientists in the world are Christians and majority Christian nations are the most scientifically advanced nations in the world the idea that science and religion are incompatible is a myth a myth pushed by atheists who want to claim a moral and intellectual high ground they do not deserve Edited July 3, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 3, 2021 Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, bcsapper said: No, I don't think so. it's waning in the western democracies and the rights of minorities are in the ascendance. Is Nietzsche like Calvin and Hobbes? It was in Germany too and Weimar Germany was most progressive nation on the planet the rights of minorities were in ascendence then came Adolf Hitler to fill the increasingly godless void you can say, I don't think so, all you want but you don't think so, because you don't know your history it was on the wane in Russia, then came Stalin it was on the wane in China, then came Mao it was on the wane in Cambodia, then came Pol Pot it was on the wane in France, then came The Terror, brought by the French Revolution, resulting in Napoleon religion waning too much, does not go well historically speaking just as Nietzsche predicted once you kill God, what fills that void is over a hundred million killed in the 20th century by the "ubermensch" who kill more than the religious they claim to be superior to, by several orders of magnitude be careful what you wish for a religious world is cushy and comfortable compared to a godless one Edited July 3, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2021 Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: a religious world is cushy and comfortable compared to a godless one No it's not. It might be to to zealots of the religion currently at number one on the religion charts. The world is full of humans who are going to do human things. It's better they do them without recourse to fairy tales. Edited July 3, 2021 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 3, 2021 Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bcsapper said: No it's not. It might be to to zealots of the religion currently at number one on religion charts. The world is full of humans who are going to do human things. It's better they do them without recourse to fairy tales. it's a better world for atheists too no one kills more atheists than atheists, no one impedes on the rights of atheists like atheists a world with less religion has shown to be a more murderous one, time and time again religious wars are a nothingburger by comparison to the damage done with atheists in charge you can claim that isn't the case until you are blue in the face but the historical record indicates otherwise if religion is just a fairy tale, it's a very useful fairy tale, and no good reason to do away with it, regardless Edited July 3, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2021 Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 31 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: it's a better world for atheists too no one kills more atheists than atheists, no one impedes on the rights of atheists like atheists a world with less religion has shown to be a more murderous one, time and time again religious wars are a nothingburger by comparison to the damage done with atheists in charge you can claim that isn't the case until you are blue in the face but the historical record indicates otherwise if religion is just a fairy tale, it's a very useful fairy tale, and no good reason to do away with it, regardless It's certainly a fairy tale that anyone has the right to live by, if they want to. It's not something that should be imposed on others though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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