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Canada concerned it will be cut out of the US 2 trillion dollar program...


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Why should this even be an concern, maybe Canada should get it's own stimulus package and stop worrying about the US.. Canada is nothing more than a free loader, wants everything for free, but unwilling to invest in anything else.... The US should have a clause in this package all this money will be spent in the US , on US companies, with US citizens doing the work...no more free loading Canada.... It's time we pay our own way in this world. 

 Canada could be shut out of Biden's $2-trillion infrastructure spending plans, Canadian negotiator warns (msn.com)

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  • 2 weeks later...

The door swings both ways on this.  As long as we sell into each other's countries fairly evenly, it's fair to share some of the supply chain.  I don't think that the stimulus will make a vast difference, but it might draw a bit more softwood for home construction for a few months, that kind of thing.  

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On 3/4/2021 at 9:00 PM, Army Guy said:

Why should this even be an concern, maybe Canada should get it's own stimulus package and stop worrying about the US.. Canada is nothing more than a free loader, wants everything for free, but unwilling to invest in anything else.... The US should have a clause in this package all this money will be spent in the US , on US companies, with US citizens doing the work...no more free loading Canada.... It's time we pay our own way in this world. 

 Canada could be shut out of Biden's $2-trillion infrastructure spending plans, Canadian negotiator warns (msn.com)

And "paying our own way" should include setting up matching "Buy Canadian" provisions that favor our own industries and businesses over Americans! 

If, after 30 years of this NAFTA garbage, the US is still free to slap on tariffs and duties whenever they feel like it, we need to do likewise...and favor countries that will actually trade fairly if we do "free trade" at all!

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15 hours ago, Right To Left said:

And "paying our own way" should include setting up matching "Buy Canadian" provisions that favor our own industries and businesses over Americans! 

If, after 30 years of this NAFTA garbage, the US is still free to slap on tariffs and duties whenever they feel like it, we need to do likewise...and favor countries that will actually trade fairly if we do "free trade" at all!

Why not, i can remember back in the day BUY Canadian was a real thing, big red stickers said made in Canada plastered all over Canadian goods.. I'm all for Buying Canadian, but the majority of consumers 9Canadians) are not, they want the cheapest price, and those items are made in china.. 

Th US is the elephant in the room, they don't rely on us and our products, they could easily replace Canadian goods with other countries... And Yet Canada is very dependent on the US, "don't bite the hand that feeds you".. When your the big dog you get to make most of the rules, might be different if Canada actually contributed in a meaningful way to say defense , NATO, NORAD, all it's defensive pacts it has signed on to. Crises around the world, we no longer have a seat at the table, shit we can't even get a seat at the UN... Nobody really takes us seriously, 

Canada is to lazy to become self sufficient, or diversify our trade unless it is with China, WE LOVE China, and how is that working out for us...

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Why not, i can remember back in the day BUY Canadian was a real thing, big red stickers said made in Canada plastered all over Canadian goods.. I'm all for Buying Canadian, but the majority of consumers 9Canadians) are not, they want the cheapest price, and those items are made in china.. 

Th US is the elephant in the room, they don't rely on us and our products, they could easily replace Canadian goods with other countries... And Yet Canada is very dependent on the US, "don't bite the hand that feeds you".. When your the big dog you get to make most of the rules, might be different if Canada actually contributed in a meaningful way to say defense , NATO, NORAD, all it's defensive pacts it has signed on to. Crises around the world, we no longer have a seat at the table, shit we can't even get a seat at the UN... Nobody really takes us seriously, 

Canada is to lazy to become self sufficient, or diversify our trade unless it is with China, WE LOVE China, and how is that working out for us...

Were we (I mean average consumers...working people) given a choice on this? As I recall, the buy Canadian and corresponding Buy American signs at the Walmarts started disappearing back in the 80's, even before the ink was dry on all this free trade crap! 

We're dependent on the US because we've been made dependent on them! Our bribe-collecting leaders have all decided that open borders and outsourcing production are supreme virtues and take precedence over promoting local business and production. We used to have a lot more of it in the old days...same as the US and other nations. 

Now, after more than a year of Covid-19 spreads and variants, that came on us after we were already headed down an economic decline, we've got a giant penis-shaped cargo ship that's wedged in tightly mid-channel in the Suez Canal zone. And now cargo shipping, insurance underwriters, oil tankers and all of the locations in how ever many nations that have been expecting deliveries soon, are being told there's going to be weeks-long delays before products arrive. 

It was bad enough back in the aftermath of the Israeli invasion of the Sinai, that included mining both ends of the Suez Canal to stop shipments...that left 15 cargo ships stuck in the middle for 7 or 8 years, until all of the issues between Israel and Egypt were resolved enough to re-open the canal and allow shipping again in 1975. 

BUT, right now! For everyone who's been a detractor of "free trade" and extended supply lines, and Just-In-Time inventory controlling, this is going to be time to sweat for a few months at least! Because nobody knows right now just how far the damage will extend.

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3 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Were we (I mean average consumers...working people) given a choice on this? As I recall, the buy Canadian and corresponding Buy American signs at the Walmarts started disappearing back in the 80's, even before the ink was dry on all this free trade crap! 

We're dependent on the US because we've been made dependent on them! Our bribe-collecting leaders have all decided that open borders and outsourcing production are supreme virtues and take precedence over promoting local business and production. We used to have a lot more of it in the old days...same as the US and other nations. 

Now, after more than a year of Covid-19 spreads and variants, that came on us after we were already headed down an economic decline, we've got a giant penis-shaped cargo ship that's wedged in tightly mid-channel in the Suez Canal zone. And now cargo shipping, insurance underwriters, oil tankers and all of the locations in how ever many nations that have been expecting deliveries soon, are being told there's going to be weeks-long delays before products arrive. 

It was bad enough back in the aftermath of the Israeli invasion of the Sinai, that included mining both ends of the Suez Canal to stop shipments...that left 15 cargo ships stuck in the middle for 7 or 8 years, until all of the issues between Israel and Egypt were resolved enough to re-open the canal and allow shipping again in 1975. 

BUT, right now! For everyone who's been a detractor of "free trade" and extended supply lines, and Just-In-Time inventory controlling, this is going to be time to sweat for a few months at least! Because nobody knows right now just how far the damage will extend.

Canadians make those choices everyday, let me ask you when you purchase a product do you look at price as the deciding factor or where it is made.. most people are looking at the price.... and I'm not talking about produce but something that is Made in Canada .

Not true, we are dependent on the US because we are to lazy to do anything about it. How else do you explain it being that way for decades. We have had plenty of time to diversify our trade but have not... The US does not care , nor do they spend much time thinking about the issue. 

I think Justins carbon taxes are going to effect all of us  more, than that ship blocking traffic.

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48 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Canadians make those choices everyday, let me ask you when you purchase a product do you look at price as the deciding factor or where it is made.. most people are looking at the price.... and I'm not talking about produce but something that is Made in Canada .

Not true, we are dependent on the US because we are to lazy to do anything about it. How else do you explain it being that way for decades. We have had plenty of time to diversify our trade but have not... The US does not care , nor do they spend much time thinking about the issue. 

I think Justins carbon taxes are going to effect all of us  more, than that ship blocking traffic.

Many times, I'm looking at product utility (whether I need it or not). And for me, the bullshit really hit the fan in recent years when Apple and other portable computer makers started producing "smart" phones, and within a couple of years, stopped making or even selling the little flip phones that did not access the internet.

WHY? The profit returns weren't as good in the early years, but it became clear that (along with large institutions and shopping malls not replacing pay phones) that everyone was going to have to walk around with their portable monitoring device whether they want to or not!  What was that again about free choice?

Same shit...and even worse from my perspective with the little portable mp3 players like Apple's Ipod Shuffle series. The 4th and last generation of Ipod Shuffle that came out 10 years ago was priced at about $100 and later dropped down to about 50 a few years later. Other players were cheaper, but they were only good for music. Once Apple Corp bought a monopoly control of rss audio tech and put it under their Itunes label, just about every podcaster had to upload to Itunes and those shuffle and other Ipods were the only ones that bookmarked podcasts. 

For me, this was and still is ALL I wanted or needed from a portable audio player, and I had no intentions of joining the ranks of the idiots with armband phone holders to fiddle with. And even now, I've had to pay blackmarket retailers thru Amazon 3 to 4 times the original price to get the last of the new, unopened Ipod shuffles available. And yet, neither Apple or anyone else licensed to deal their products has been allowed to continue production of these devices, even though I and many others are living proof that there is still a market for them.

So much for free enterprise! 

 

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We're interdependant. We're the USA biggest customer of finished good, they're our biggest customer of natural ressources. 

As for Norad/Nato, the USA gets to enjoy a northern buffer zone, against Russia. They also enjoyed an early warning system with radar installation all along the northern coast. Canada is a country of 35-40 millions people. Nobody, not even the USA, believe we can spend as much as they do on military equipments. Beside, the USA has never wanted a stronger military in Canada. They balked at the creation of the RCN because it meant the end of them coming into our national water to fish, and they also complained about our military aviation industry when  we built the Avro Arrow.

People missunderstood Trump when  he bitched about countries not paying their fair share in Nato. He didn't want countries to start investing in THEIR armed forces. What he wanted was for the other Nato countries to write checks to pay for the USA armed forces. Not gonna happen. 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/4/2021 at 6:00 PM, Army Guy said:

Why should this even be an concern, maybe Canada should get it's own stimulus package and stop worrying about the US.. Canada is nothing more than a free loader, wants everything for free, but unwilling to invest in anything else.... The US should have a clause in this package all this money will be spent in the US , on US companies, with US citizens doing the work...no more free loading Canada.... It's time we pay our own way in this world. 

 Canada could be shut out of Biden's $2-trillion infrastructure spending plans, Canadian negotiator warns (msn.com)

No problem for Castro Trudeau. All he has to do is keep borrowing money from the globalist banksters whom he loves so well. Our dear comrade leader keeps borrowing money from the banksters and really enjoys giving it away to third world countries. No problem for the buffoon. :lol:

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On 3/29/2021 at 2:36 PM, AMenard said:

We're interdependant. We're the USA biggest customer of finished good, they're our biggest customer of natural ressources. 

As for Norad/Nato, the USA gets to enjoy a northern buffer zone, against Russia. They also enjoyed an early warning system with radar installation all along the northern coast. Canada is a country of 35-40 millions people. Nobody, not even the USA, believe we can spend as much as they do on military equipments. Beside, the USA has never wanted a stronger military in Canada. They balked at the creation of the RCN because it meant the end of them coming into our national water to fish, and they also complained about our military aviation industry when  we built the Avro Arrow.

People missunderstood Trump when  he bitched about countries not paying their fair share in Nato. He didn't want countries to start investing in THEIR armed forces. What he wanted was for the other Nato countries to write checks to pay for the USA armed forces. Not gonna happen. 

 

WOW, an entire buffer zone, what a deal, I take it your political preface are to the left side of the spectrum, because this is a typical leftist answer. they get a buffer zone, and we allow them to pay just under 90 % of the bills for NORAD, and we pay just over 10 %, i mean it is for our defense as well , and still we have very little to contribute to the defense agreement, 40 year old jet fighters....

Canada does not need a huge military, but it should be able to live up to some of the defensive pacts we have signed on to. We contribute very little to NATO, 5 eyes, UN, and the countless other defensive pacts we have signed on to....With all the money we are saving we could atleast afford to equip our military with modern equipment.. And as for Trump calling for the cheap bastards to pay up, he did include Canada in that statement, not to pay the US, but just after Justin resigned the NATO agreement that forced each NATO nation to spend 2 % of GDP, he went on the media and said Canada was not going to pay any more... so why sign on to the new agreement... instead Canada changed the rules on what you can claim to boost the amount of GDP spent on our military without moving any funds...and still we are one of a few nations that will not even come close to 2 % ever....

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On 4/23/2021 at 6:32 PM, Army Guy said:

WOW, an entire buffer zone, what a deal, I take it your political preface are to the left side of the spectrum, because this is a typical leftist answer. they get a buffer zone, and we allow them to pay just under 90 % of the bills for NORAD, and we pay just over 10 %, i mean it is for our defense as well , and still we have very little to contribute to the defense agreement, 40 year old jet fighters....

Canada does not need a huge military, but it should be able to live up to some of the defensive pacts we have signed on to. We contribute very little to NATO, 5 eyes, UN, and the countless other defensive pacts we have signed on to....With all the money we are saving we could atleast afford to equip our military with modern equipment.. And as for Trump calling for the cheap bastards to pay up, he did include Canada in that statement, not to pay the US, but just after Justin resigned the NATO agreement that forced each NATO nation to spend 2 % of GDP, he went on the media and said Canada was not going to pay any more... so why sign on to the new agreement... instead Canada changed the rules on what you can claim to boost the amount of GDP spent on our military without moving any funds...and still we are one of a few nations that will not even come close to 2 % ever....

Why would we?

There's no realistic way that Canada can be effectively defended by our own army anyway. We've to much territories to cover and too few population to draft. Unless we went nuclear that is, but we can't since the USA wouldn't let us go nuclear if we wanted to. Buying military hardware is nonsence if you can't field enough of it to make a difference and again we don't have enought troops to operate them effectively. 

And this is nothing new. The only reason Canada created the RCN was to prevent the American from fishing in our waters. It never was meant to really oppose a real active navy. All of Canada's military forces in the 20th century has been geared up as support for other nations major military forces. This is in no way me saying that the Canadian military is bad, just that the reality is that it isn't a first line of defense kind of military.

NATO was created for the defense of Europe, not Canada! Why should we contribute 2% of our GDP in 2021 to defend Germany, France or the UK? What ever have they done for us, beside wasting our men  and ressources for THEIR wars? system on our 

The USA NEEDED Canada for Norad. We had the first line of warning system on our territory. Without Canada, Norad wouldn't have work and the main beneficiary was the USA. It was there to defend US cities, not Canadian one. 

And we saw what kind of respect our troops bloodshed has bought us when Covid started up and our "allies" redirected our already paid for medical supplies to their own hospital and had us begging for vaxines. Canada has paid for both Nato and Norad in blood in both world wars and don't own one red cent to anybody, especially not to defend others again. 

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11 hours ago, AMenard said:

Why would we?

There's no realistic way that Canada can be effectively defended by our own army anyway. We've to much territories to cover and too few population to draft. Unless we went nuclear that is, but we can't since the USA wouldn't let us go nuclear if we wanted to. Buying military hardware is nonsence if you can't field enough of it to make a difference and again we don't have enought troops to operate them effectively. 

And this is nothing new. The only reason Canada created the RCN was to prevent the American from fishing in our waters. It never was meant to really oppose a real active navy. All of Canada's military forces in the 20th century has been geared up as support for other nations major military forces. This is in no way me saying that the Canadian military is bad, just that the reality is that it isn't a first line of defense kind of military.

NATO was created for the defense of Europe, not Canada! Why should we contribute 2% of our GDP in 2021 to defend Germany, France or the UK? What ever have they done for us, beside wasting our men  and ressources for THEIR wars? system on our 

The USA NEEDED Canada for Norad. We had the first line of warning system on our territory. Without Canada, Norad wouldn't have work and the main beneficiary was the USA. It was there to defend US cities, not Canadian one. 

And we saw what kind of respect our troops bloodshed has bought us when Covid started up and our "allies" redirected our already paid for medical supplies to their own hospital and had us begging for vaxines. Canada has paid for both Nato and Norad in blood in both world wars and don't own one red cent to anybody, especially not to defend others again. 

Good question, one most Canadians can't answer, because they simply don't know exactly what it is our military does, they seem to think our militaries only job is defense of our nation, and all the defensive pacts it has signed on to, like NATO, NORAD. ABCNZA, 5 eyes, and many others. Our military is also heavily used for fisheries patrols, Custom and border operations, RCMP operations, CSIS operations, providing security for major events, such as Olympics, common wealth games, G-20 vists, basically any large event, DND provides vehs equipment and personal to all this activities. Plus our military is the lead agency in our emergency preparedness planning , not to mention any and all national disasters, such as floods, ice storms, forest fires. DND is also our nations lead agency when it comes to international disaster relief, such as DART etc... SAR, but also evacuating people with Canadians passports from war zones, disaster areas, regardless of where in the world they are. The big one would be , our sovereignty to start with, the ability to defend or protect any or all of our borders, not just from armed enemies, but also from patrolling our 200 km limit. if you don't or can't occupy it or protect it we risk losing it...Canada has claims today with the US, Denmark, Russia China over areas in the north not to mention our claimed 200 km limit in the north...

Justin signed onto the latest NATO policies which stated we as a nation would spend 2 % of our GDP on defense, then days later he puffed up his chest in defiance and said no way... WHY not just withdrawal for it if he want to prove something, no he had to look stupid in front of our allies. NATO is not about just protecting Europe, today it has evolved into something else, it is about fighting a major conflict in Europe not North America, and while Russia, is only a fraction of what it used to be, they could still easily turn Europe into a smoking hole with just conventional forces... 

RCN would have a different explanation to why they are  a major element within DND, keeping Americans off our fishing grounds is not really one of them, our navy has had to intervene a couple of times for fishing violations , none were with the US, Portugal and Spain, where one group "turbot wars" , they do more counter drug operations than fishier patrols.

US military does not need Canadian military for anything, todays tech can see over the horizon, no need to have the old dew line...Besides any destroyed missiles (BMD) are going to fall on Canada not the US and thats all controlled out of the US...

NATO and NORAD where put in place well after both World wars, and for the record we as a nation have been delinquent, in all areas of those agreements for decades, going as far back as the 50 's now there is a record you can be proud of...even the myth about Canada being a peacekeeping nation, sure it sent troops and equipment but had ROEs that prevented them from doing the job for the most part. ....

Nobody in Canada is asking for a massive military, what the men and women that serve within our military want modern equipment that saves lives, equipment that is needed to carry out the jobs OUR government sends them on....SO while i commend you on opinion of our military or it's function, and how it should look and operate it is not really one based in reality... The last ICE storm we had, in Ontario and Quebec took , took the entire army, including reserve forces, along with large chucks of the air force and navy to assist in bringing power and normalcy to those 2 provinces...had anything else happened their would be no aid...same goes for the Winnipeg floods, pretty small in size compared to a major earth quake say on the BC coast, people would die waiting for aid to come, it would quickly overwhelm everything... but hey it is only people right, i mean if we are to cheap to furnish our military members with mordern equipment to save their lives, why should we shell out more to save people from a major event like an earth quake ....

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On 5/18/2021 at 11:35 PM, Army Guy said:

Nobody in Canada is asking for a massive military, what the men and women that serve within our military want modern equipment that saves lives, equipment that is needed to carry out the jobs OUR government sends them on....

there's nothing wrong with the equipment, it's all NATO standard

the problem in Canada is a total lack of logistics, when all war is logistics in the end

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4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

there's nothing wrong with the equipment, it's all NATO standard

the problem in Canada is a total lack of logistics, when all war is logistics in the end

Well i guess if you count most of the wheeled fleet sits in fields rotting, no replacement for the LSVW , or HLVW, the MLVW got replaced by a 9 ton French truck, only took 10 years... not to mention out of the 100 leopards we only have 40 fit to fight the rest are training tanks. and of them 20 are Leo IIA4M and 20 ARE Leo IIA6M most of which were blown up atleast once and was rode hard in Afghanistan ...not exactly top shelf considering the Germans are running the Leo II A7V only 4 generations newer...LAV 6.0 are the best we got, and that they only replaced the bottom half, and welding the old top back on....we still have TLAVS still running around, there only 60 plus years old, Pistols are well over 50 years old, you'd be better off throwing it than shooting it, it's more accurate that way...No SPA arty, we got rid of the tow , got it back again now looking at getting rid of it again.... same as the 50.HMG gone , back, thats just the army, the Airforce it gets a little better, but the navy, 6 newfies in a row boat would be a good description .... So NATO standard ya , but it is the bottom of the rung standard...and for a G-7 nation it is embarrassing ... considering Luxemburg is running more mordern gear than we are...

Logistics is another nightmare of a  problem as well, our whole military is nothing more than a shell...and it's citizens think everything is good on the home front... shit a couple years ago we went to the field in school busses to save on fuel funds...try dismounting 40 guys from a school bus while doing a company attack was one of many highlights of my career..., it quickly turns into a massive cluster F***... all to save a dollar... training time is 1 /10 of what it used to be.. getting to use your personal wpn twice a year for a grunt is nuts... unless your spinning up for deployment task.

Edited by Army Guy
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Just now, Army Guy said:

Well i guess if you count most of the wheeled fleet sits in fields rotting, no replacement for the LSVW , or HLVW, the MLVW got replaced by a 9 ton French truck, only took 10 years... not to mention out of the 100 leopards we only have 40 fit to fight the rest are training tanks. and of them 20 are Leo IIA4M and 20 ARE Leo IIA6M most of which we blown up atleast once and was rode hard in Afghanistan ...not exactly top shelf considering the Germans are running the Leo II A7V only 4 generations newer...LAV 6.0 are the best we got, and that they only replaced the bottom half, and welding the old top back on....we still have TLAVS still running around, there only 60 plus years old, Pistols are well over 50 years old, you'd be better off throwing it than shooting it, it's more accurate that way...No SPA arty, we got rid of the tow , got it back again now looking at getting rid of it again.... same as the 50.HMG gone , back, thats just the army, the Airforce it gets a little better, but the navy, 6 newfies in a row boat would be a good description .... So NATO standard ya , but it is the bottom of the rung standard...and for a G-7 nation it is embarrassing ... considering Luxemburg is running more mordern gear than we are...

Logistics is another nightmare of a  problem as well, our whole military is nothing more than a shell...and it's citizens think everything is good on the home front... shit a couple years ago we went to the field in school busses to save on fuel funds...try dismounting 40 guys from a school bus while doing a company attack was one of many highlights of my career..., it quickly turns into a massive cluster F***... all to save a dollar... training time is 1 /10 of what it used to be.. getting to use your personal wpn twice a year for a grunt is nuts... unless your spinning up for deployment task.

well it's a Boutique Military now

it's not like in the Cold War when there was a set mission on the trace within an American Corps

the purpose of the military is just to show the flag with a minimal contribution

it's a political tool not a military tool

the government has no minimum standard of military force which it feels bound to

if they send an Iltis with a Canadian flag on it and the CBC films it, that's enough to satisfy Canada

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 take Afghanistan for example

that wasn't a military mission, that was a political mission

what can you really do with three Rifle Company groups in an area the size of New Brunswick ?

show the flag, fulfill Canada's minimum commitments under NATO Article V

mission accomplished, bravo zulu, but it wasn't about tactical victories, it was politics

 

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Yes it is a boutique military, one that Canada seems to pride itself in, they relish having a toothless machine, that is until they want to use it, open air iltis jeeps we all thought were great in Afghanistan offer great 360 degree vision, and you could make it bristle with GPMG's but it offered no protection, until a suicide bomber jumped on the hood and blew it up, sending us to the tarmac to load fallen comrads drapped in Canadian flags... and they were replaced by the g wagon, which was to offer more protection, but we did not buy that option oooppps....cost to much...On day Canadians will wake up...maybe when it is their family draped with the flag being loaded on to a C-17... but thats not going to happen is it.

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really, the way it is now, the whole Army is just a feeder unit for CANSOFCOM

CANSOFCOM is the political weapon of choice and JTF2 is the jewel in the crown

basically you need at least 20,000 or so troops to keep CSOR & JTF2 fed with the cream of the crop

Edited by Dougie93
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1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

maybe when it is their family draped with the flag being loaded on to a C-17...

you would have gone no matter what, you're a deployment machine, you couldn't resist

not citizen soldiers, Soldiers of the Crown, mercenary professionals for the Queen and no other

when Canadians come up and say "thank you for your service"

I say hey, no need,  this is not America, I didn't serve you, I served Her Majesty

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