xul Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 On 4/14/2021 at 2:01 AM, August1991 said: America won: Nowadays, in the west, gays are free to kiss in public. If you think political-correctness alone can win a war you are wrong. For example, Indians have freedom of shitting on this public beach, but I guess nobody here wants to go to that beach even if he or she is an Indian Canadian: This video is age restricted. Make sure you are of age before click the link. Nonetheless, political reform did play a rule on defeating Soviet in the Cold War. Just imagine, nowadays if black citizen still had to sitting on the back on a bus and in a cinema, I bet China after Mao's Death, alone with many other none west countries, would join Soviet side, not team up with US and the West, which would change the tide of the Cold War in 1980s. But this isn't the proof of the victory of political-correctness. Back in the time before 1960s, racialism was political-correct and mixing white kids with black kids in the same school was politically incorrect then, at least incorrect in some states of US. It was the courage of choosing to do right thing over follow political-correct books which was left by the founders of the system hundreds years ago helped US to win the Cold War. Nowadays the US's problem is their elite class wrongly interpreted the cause of US's wining and misled the whole nation to believe that cold war/hot war/trade war....would be easy to win if just clinging on politically correct books. No need hard working, no need sacrificing a bit of your freedom for greater good to achieve final victory... Using China, US and India for examples: China: Sacrificing a few months of freedom of roaming on streets and business losses results both daily life and economy almost back to normal since then: US: A few months of mask-free election campaign resulted the covid infection number great again... As for India, a few days of freedom of dreaming of "vaccine superpower" has become the greatest humanitarian disaster after the cold war. Indian Today Mar 9, 2021: Just less than 2 months later: Political-correctness can't help you to achieve the victory against Covid19, but doing right thing at right time can. And the "Right" isn't judged by political doctrines but by science. China wins because except a few weeks in the early stage, the government and people strictly following scientific measures. The US and India failed because their national leaders put political considerations over science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2021 On 5/2/2021 at 3:42 PM, xul said: If you think political-correctness alone can win a war you are wrong..... Agreed. xul, you offer several examples. ====== I trust the West, specifically the US. Leftists blame America for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2021 On 1/7/2021 at 7:33 AM, OftenWrong said: Judging by recent events, communism is far from dead. .... Communism is dead. Some young people in the west have resurrected socialism. ==== In Vietnam now, people are free to trade and travel abroad. Vietnam was one battle in a larger war. America won the Cold War. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 12:44 AM, August1991 said: Communism is dead. Some young people in the west have resurrected socialism. ==== In Vietnam now, people are free to trade and travel abroad. Vietnam was one battle in a larger war. America won the Cold War. Communism is more authoritarian than socialism. I requires a totalitarian system to function, while socialism can merely be an element of a broader system, including in a democracy. Soviets re-branded themselves after the cold war was "declared" over. Glasnost and perestroika where their new slogans, or something like that in Russian. Yes I remember, I have a memory. Old paintings of former glorious leaders on building walls were taken down, and replaced with paintings of new glorious leaders. In China, they changed their economy to compete with capitalist countries, and increased trade with USA. Yet clearly love, peace and truth did not break out among them. .... Elsewhere, Canada has a PM who openly admires the Chinese "basic dictatorship". China is run by the Chinese Communist Party. .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right To Left Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Communism is more authoritarian than socialism. I requires a totalitarian system to function, while socialism can merely be an element of a broader system, including in a democracy. Soviets re-branded themselves after the cold war was "declared" over. Glasnost and perestroika where their new slogans, or something like that in Russian. Yes I remember, I have a memory. Old paintings of former glorious leaders on building walls were taken down, and replaced with paintings of new glorious leaders. In China, they changed their economy to compete with capitalist countries, and increased trade with USA. Yet clearly love, peace and truth did not break out among them. .... Elsewhere, Canada has a PM who openly admires the Chinese "basic dictatorship". China is run by the Chinese Communist Party. .... America got off lightly for a war crime that killed at least 3 million Vietnamese, and is still killing people today with the residues of Agent Orange and landmines in the interior border areas, including Laos and Cambodia. All for nothing! Since it was LBJ who really ramped up the Vietnam War under false pretenses - (The Gulf of Tonkin Incident) a claimed series of attacks on American ships, was a fraud revealed as far back as the release of the Pentagon Papers, revealed by whistleblower - Daniel Ellsberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 1:44 AM, August1991 said: Communism is dead. Some young people in the west have resurrected socialism. ==== In Vietnam now, people are free to trade and travel abroad. Vietnam was one battle in a larger war. America won the Cold War. Communism is not dead, it just changed directions, look at China for example, it has modified communism taken the best the west has to offer, but maintains its strict controls over it's population. Mother Russia is the same they are adapting and are making a slow come back, by once again taking the good parts of capitalism and combining it with communism. one could say the same about the other communist countries, Vietnam for example. all based on greed and worship of the dollar... Don't let the fact that the people can travel everything is all roses in these countries, life is still light years away from having the comforts or freedoms we enjoy... And while the west has come out ahead in the cold war race, socialism, and our race to defeat the climate crises is going to set back the west a huge amount. While china continues to dominate almost every aspect of global economy, and influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemabus13 Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 Greed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) On 5/19/2021 at 2:53 PM, Army Guy said: Communism is not dead, it just changed directions, look at China for example, it has modified communism taken the best the west has to offer, but maintains its strict controls over it's population. Mother Russia is the same they are adapting and are making a slow come back, by once again taking the good parts of capitalism and combining it with communism. one could say the same about the other communist countries, Vietnam for example. all based on greed and worship of the dollar... Army Guy, "... worship of the dollar"? You say "dollar" but in fact you mean number. People now worship a number. Imagine! ===== Compared to 1970, say, ordinary people nowadays in Russia, China and Vietnam are free to worship. Heck, ordinary people in Russia, China and Vietnam nowadays can easily get a foreign travel passport - and earn the money to travel abroad. ===== America won the Cold War. Like Dieppe or Dunkerque, the Vietnam War was an important battle in a longer conflict that we in the West ultimately won. Edited June 17, 2021 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 They have always been free to worship, you mean those that can afford to travel, if they don't want you to travel they forbid it on a whim, Don't for a minute think they are free as we know it, if the government wants to make you disappear it does, if they don't like you they can always poison you with radiation. Russia may of lost the cold war, but even in it's current state it is a force to be recognized with, and it still projects power around the globe. As china will one day. The war on communisms and dictatorships is still on going, and is far from being won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank.last.1983 Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 On 6/18/2021 at 1:30 AM, Army Guy said: Russia may of lost the cold war, What made you think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 acknowledging the point August made America won the cold war. I'm going to say History says that, the facts point that way as well, there is no more Warsaw pact that would be a good indication, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 12:44 AM, August1991 said: Communism is dead. Communism feeds on death. Undead. Think Nosferatu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 Think Van Helsing... wont die unless you cut off its head and impale its heart with a spike made of steel... politically speaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 6:30 PM, Army Guy said: They have always been free to worship, you mean those that can afford to travel, if they don't want you to travel they forbid it on a whim, Don't for a minute think they are free as we know it, if the government wants to make you disappear it does, if they don't like you they can always poison you with radiation. Russia may of lost the cold war, but even in it's current state it is a force to be recognized with, and it still projects power around the globe. As china will one day. The war on communisms and dictatorships is still on going, and is far from being won. Make no mistake, America won the Cold War. Around the world, from Russia to Vietnam to China, more people are free to travel, free to be what they are. ===== Like Korea, Vietnam was an important battle in this war. Imagine if the Soviets/Maoists had won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 28 minutes ago, August1991 said: Make no mistake, America won the Cold War. Around the world, from Russia to Vietnam to China, more people are free to travel, free to be what they are. ===== Like Korea, Vietnam was an important battle in this war. Imagine if the Soviets/Maoists had won. I don't think i did make an mistake, or suggest they did not . Just because your free to travel does not mean you have the freedoms we enjoy. And what if they don't return, do you think their family is at risk, it would be a great motivator would it not, the Chinese have been doing it for years according to CSIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Army Guy said: I don't think i did make an mistake, or suggest they did not . Just because your free to travel does not mean you have the freedoms we enjoy. And what if they don't return, do you think their family is at risk, it would be a great motivator would it not, the Chinese have been doing it for years according to CSIS. Comparing travel of a westerner to the PRC/CCCP around 1980, trust me that it is much easier/safer than now. A Soviet passport with CCCP abroad was possible. A PRC passport, very unlikely. ===== Let me make this plain: Because America won the Cold War: Millions of Chinese/Russians now travel abroad, and Millions of foreigners travel to China and Russia. ===== I fear that COVID has recreated the Soviet/Maoist world of 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 29 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I don't think i did make an mistake, or suggest they did not . Just because your free to travel does not mean you have the freedoms we enjoy. And what if they don't return, do you think their family is at risk, it would be a great motivator would it not, the Chinese have been doing it for years according to CSIS. Free to be who they are. Trust me. I've been to Vietnam - and Russia and China. America won this much greater war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) How did America defeat Soviets/Maoism? Let me explain: 1. Americans fought/died in Korea. 2. Americans fought/died in Vietnam. 3. Americans paid taxes to have soldiers/missiles in Europe. Eventually, the Soviet Union and the Maoist PRC ran out of other people's money. === LBJ, Kennedy, Reagan were correct. Nixon was wrong. Edited June 24, 2021 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) America won the Cold War with a two punch combo 1) realizing that Communism is not a monolith aligned against America exploiting that by making a deals with some Communists whose interests more closely aligned with the Americans than the Soviets China being the prime example The Nixonian Punch 2) forcing the Soviets to overspend and overreach with their military in order to try to compete with America which they couldn't afford to sustain long term The Reaganite Punch Nixonian Punch + Reaganite Punch = Soviet Collapse Edited June 24, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 18 hours ago, August1991 said: How did America defeat Soviets/Maoism? Let me explain: 1. Americans fought/died in Korea. 2. Americans fought/died in Vietnam. 3. Americans paid taxes to have soldiers/missiles in Europe. Eventually, the Soviet Union and the Maoist PRC ran out of other people's money. === LBJ, Kennedy, Reagan were correct. Nixon was wrong. 1. which ended in a tie and the country divided it proved nothing except china was a threat to the US and it's allies. . 2. ended in a loss, not sure why your using this as an example. 3. Yes America and NATO out spent mother Russia which is consider a Win for America, I agreed to that in the first post. Russia has been making great strides in rebuilding their military machine, enough to give NATO pause to think this is all over...unless the whole Ukraine thing was practical joke, or that other surrounding country's are begging for NATO troops or to join NATO It can still project power. China is becoming a monster that we created, almost everything is made in China, it's military growth out strips most countries in the world. and it won't be long before it can project power in it's region. So much that NATO now considers China the primary threat and is thinking of expanding into the pacific theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: China is becoming a monster that we created, almost everything is made in China, it's military growth out strips most countries in the world. and it won't be long before it can project power in it's region. So much that NATO now considers China the primary threat and is thinking of expanding into the pacific theater. a monster created to win the Cold War and it worked only Nixon can go to China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 On 6/24/2021 at 7:19 PM, Army Guy said: .... Russia has been making great strides in rebuilding their military machine, enough to give NATO pause to think this is all over...unless the whole Ukraine thing was practical joke, or that other surrounding country's are begging for NATO troops or to join NATO It can still project power. China is becoming a monster that we created, almost everything is made in China, it's military growth out strips most countries in the world. and it won't be long before it can project power in it's region. So much that NATO now considers China the primary threat and is thinking of expanding into the pacific theater. Make no mistake that both China and Russia have adopted the Singapore model. China is no longer Maoist and Russia is no longer Stalinist. China, Russia and India use prices to allocate resources. ===== This is a huge win for the guys who wrote America's constitution in the 18th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, August1991 said: Make no mistake that both China and Russia have adopted the Singapore model. China is no longer Maoist and Russia is no longer Stalinist. China, Russia and India use prices to allocate resources. ===== This is a huge win for the guys who wrote America's constitution in the 18th century. Chins uses prices to centrally plan the allocation of resources closed state run monopolistic markets is not open consumer driven free market capitalism they ain't Singapore, they ain't Hong Kong, and neither is Russia China's economic liberalization has been greatly exaggerated don't buy into the hype Edited June 26, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) On 6/24/2021 at 8:39 PM, Yzermandius19 said: a monster created to win the Cold War and it worked only Nixon can go to China Nixon was wrong to go to Peking in 1972.. ==== Reagan did not go to the Soviet Union. America won the Cold War To defeat Hitler, Churchill did not go to Munich. ====== 1) IME, the way to defeat an "Authoritarian State" is to do what Reagan/Churchill did: avoid their officials and speak clearly. Nathan Sharansky has said this better. 2) We should quietly let anyone in such a State know that the individual is not alone. Edited July 9, 2021 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 9, 2021 Report Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, August1991 said: Nixon was wrong to go to Beijing. ==== Reagan did not go to the Soviet Union. To defeat Hitler, Churchill did not go to Munich. ====== IME, the way to defeat Authoritarian States is to do what Reagan did: avoid them their officials and speak clearly. Nathan Sharansky has said this better. going to China won the Cold War you are letting idealism get in the way of realpolitik in order to defeat Hitler, a war needed to be fought you got to ask yourself would you rather have fought the Soviets than have Nixon go to China? obvious better solution is obvious divide and conquering the non-monolithic communists ftw Edited July 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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