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To covid-19 vaccinate or Not to ( if no service for unvaccinated)


366h34d

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The vaccine needs to cover x amount of the total population to be effective, one way to do or ensure that happens is to put a carrot out there, discussions have ranged for the government paying people to get it, because Canadians love free money, in Ontario the are thinking about the card, Other nations have considered cutting of government assistance to those that refuse, like CERB checks, family allowance checks etc etc... i don't think they have come up with something solid, thats legal, or does not hurt anyone's feelings.

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12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I do not need it. For my own personal lifestyle I am not at risk. Even if I get it, would be asymptomatic. I will just sweat the virus out in one evening, and be up in the morning for cornflakes.

Just don't worry. TJ or Biden won't force anybody to take the vaccine. Since most people who doubt the vaccine on internet are conservative supporters, if they don't force it, which means most liberal supporters will take the vaccine meanwhile conservatives will most likely refuse it, the virus will spread out only among conservative supporters and kill lots of them after the mask and social distancing measures are cancelled for fully reopening economy, then liberal politicians will easily win any election....?

What your liberal national leader is doing is just what Captain Kirk did to Captain Nero in this Star Trek 2009 film----offering help in hope that the offer being refused...?

LOL, I'm joking. I'm sure JT isn't that bad. But if you all refuse to take the vaccine, the results will be no different.?

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6 minutes ago, xul said:

Just don't worry. TJ or Biden won't force anybody to take the vaccine.

Of course the big boys will not dirty their hands with the matter. They will leave that decision to the provinces, municipalities, and businesses. Insurance companies and lawyers are simply not going to insure your business unless you agree with their own list of health directives. They will demand you give them your health data, out the yin yang.

Finally it will be up to the corner chivato to decide if you're allowed to go in to a store or not. There's your health expert.

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There are so many interesting paradoxes at play here, I gotta admit that it's entertaining.

1- the leftist dolts who vilified HCQ because they heard the word come out of Trump's mouth are protecting Trump's vaccine like it's Jesus reborn.

2- The people who hate the American Vaccine are comfortable with the idea of being infected by a virus that they think may have been invented in a Chinese bio-warfare lab lol. 

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On 12/13/2020 at 4:51 PM, 366h34d said:

 

 

If it were up to me, any person refusing to take the COVID vaccine would be imprisoned, or be killed outright.  These anti-vaxxers need to be eliminated in society by any means necessary.

 

However, I realize this is not possible, so the Government should issue cards for vaccinated persons.  This way the people who refuse to be vaccinated will lose their ability to attend sporting events, rock concerts, travel out of country, lose their right to free health care, and lose their rights to employment discrimination. Do not present your card when being interviewed for a job or promotion? Terminate their employment. 

It;s disturbing enough that these freaks have brought back the measles, but the thought of the anti-vaxxers driving up health care costs, and spreading it to new immigrants or others is enough to exclude them from society in general. 

 

Edited by Petros
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I said the same thing about liberals , but it did not catch on... despite my best efforts... i even comprised and said we could have a season, say a couple of weeks kill as many as you want, like right after moose season... and it still did not catch on... 

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On 12/15/2020 at 1:11 AM, OftenWrong said:

Of course the big boys will not dirty their hands with the matter. They will leave that decision to the provinces, municipalities, and businesses. Insurance companies and lawyers are simply not going to insure your business unless you agree with their own list of health directives. They will demand you give them your health data, out the yin yang.

Finally it will be up to the corner chivato to decide if you're allowed to go in to a store or not. There's your health expert.

That is one option , but what is going to happen if the government will pay everyone to get vaccinated, i mean the way we are spending money right now, why not say 1000.oo per person... do you think we would see the opposition we are seeing right now. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

First comment:  NOBODY can predict their outcome from a SARS Cov2 infection.  It could be a minor pulmonary involvement or it could include as well cardiac, vascular, neurological and renal damage with lifelong compromises or fatal outcomes.   Do you feel lucky today????

There are already precedents on travel and vaccinations certificates (India for instance, have to have my certificate to get visa and enter) so not any kind of a stretch.  What I expect we will see is vax cert PLUS valid test no more than a few days old.  The airline industry does not want to mimic the cruise lines in screwing up royally and going tits up.

I MUST travel for business reasons, and having been denied travel insurance for the last 10 months (thus no international travel) I will be at the front of the line for vaccination as soon as I possibly can.

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25 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

In my view vaccination should be made mandatory since those not vaccinated have much higher chance of being infected and if infected then they can infect others since vaccines don't provide 100% immunity but it can provide herd immunity if everyone is vaccinated.

May be a dangerous precedent; government mandating you putting a certain cocktail of chemical into your body.

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55 minutes ago, Adam1980 said:

May be a dangerous precedent; government mandating you putting a certain cocktail of chemical into your body.

I can recognize the emotion, but let's deal with fact:  the same government pays for 100% of our sick care costs - so the only way I can see that working out is that if you choose to avoid mandatory vaccination you should be also choosing to go it on your own for sick care costs.  BUT: since we let people smoke, drink, drug and eat things that are also highly likely to kill you or at least make you expensive to keep around,  there needs to be some clarity on how that all goes down as well.

Question for you: do you think the public should be on the hook for the cost of rescuing a climber who has a fall since he decided he should climb a mountain?   Not being facetious, just curious.

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2 hours ago, Adam1980 said:

May be a dangerous precedent; government mandating you putting a certain cocktail of chemical into your body.

No, because that person poses a danger to me and you and others by refusing vaccination not just to himself or herself in which case I agree a choice should have been given but this is not the case with covid-19. It is like drunk driving, You put the lives of other people in danger if you drink and drive not just yours so the law says it is illegal to drink and drive. Same for vaccination.

Alternatively, If one chooses not to be vaccinated then he or she must remain in his or her home until pandemic is totally over. Random checks of vaccination cards by law enforcement will be made and those found in public without being vaccinated should be given heavy fines first time and given jail sentences and criminal record for repeat offenders. I prefer the first option though that is to make vaccination mandatory.

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5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Apparently allergic reactions are quite high, and anyone who has a lot of allergies is being told not to take it. I guess they’ll never get to see India.

IIRC it is Yellow Fever vaccine required for India (but not for all countries).  I could do quite well without going back there - not my favourite place.  Now that I think of it: I think Nigeria also requires a vaccination certificate.

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22 hours ago, cannuck said:

I can recognize the emotion, but let's deal with fact:  the same government pays for 100% of our sick care costs - so the only way I can see that working out is that if you choose to avoid mandatory vaccination you should be also choosing to go it on your own for sick care costs.  BUT: since we let people smoke, drink, drug and eat things that are also highly likely to kill you or at least make you expensive to keep around,  there needs to be some clarity on how that all goes down as well.

Question for you: do you think the public should be on the hook for the cost of rescuing a climber who has a fall since he decided he should climb a mountain?   Not being facetious, just curious.

You ask very good questions I think. It goes to the root of the tacit agreements we in this society have made. One quick comment; the government does not pay for healthcare, we all do. We all pool our resources into a great pot and the various governments spend it on the public as a whole. Framed like that, your argument is strong. We have all agreed to shoulder our various portions of the burden, and ideally that should include not drinking until your liver fails, or smoking until your lungs fails...or refusing a vaccine for something that requires all of us to get, or the societal benefit does not occur.

On the other side though, assuming we all can get immunity simply by making a choice and getting a couple of needles, is there any real downside we should spend energy on talking about?

I do not think the public should pay for the irresponsibility of individuals. I would agree that if someone willingly refuses the vaccine (or doesn't do good diligence and climbs a mountain), they should reap the consequence. What does that look like in real life? They've presumably paid into the pot so are entitled to some service.

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2 hours ago, Adam1980 said:

What does that look like in real life? They've presumably paid into the pot so are entitled to some service.

This is the argument put forward by a former, very left leaning neighbour.  We have public insurance on cars here, and the same crown corp does a fair bit of residential insurance - to which of course said neighbour used.  She believed since she had paid premiums, she should be entitled to every opportunity to file a claim.  The whole neigbourhood in the past 20 years has replaced its roofing once over - except here house that is on #4 - from supposed "hail damage".  I guess the dark cloud that followed her everywhere she went crapped ice only onto her roof - sparing we fortunate mere mortals all around her.

This is why I like sin taxes, and would gladly support a "fat tax".  Since we DO have socialized sick care and health care, those who abuse the former by ignoring the latter should IMHO pay their dissproportionate share based on the risks associated with their behaviour.  Same could apply to vaccination - just hard to collect a sin tax for something that one chooses NOT to do.

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4 hours ago, Adam1980 said:

We have all agreed to shoulder our various portions of the burden, and ideally that should include not drinking until your liver fails, or smoking until your lungs fails...or refusing a vaccine for something that requires all of us to get, or the societal benefit does not occur.

On the other side though, assuming we all can get immunity simply by making a choice and getting a couple of needles, is there any real downside we should spend energy on talking about?

 

It is easy to get people agitated about these things, and it really makes the more fearful, anal-retentives come to the foreground. These are the people who have the greatest concern for the virus, and cannot be reasoned with by facts. They gravitate towards health-advisor positions.

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On 1/3/2021 at 12:14 PM, Adam1980 said:

You ask very good questions I think. It goes to the root of the tacit agreements we in this society have made. One quick comment; the government does not pay for healthcare, we all do. We all pool our resources into a great pot and the various governments spend it on the public as a whole. Framed like that, your argument is strong. We have all agreed to shoulder our various portions of the burden, and ideally that should include not drinking until your liver fails, or smoking until your lungs fails...or refusing a vaccine for something that requires all of us to get, or the societal benefit does not occur.

On the other side though, assuming we all can get immunity simply by making a choice and getting a couple of needles, is there any real downside we should spend energy on talking about?

I do not think the public should pay for the irresponsibility of individuals. I would agree that if someone willingly refuses the vaccine (or doesn't do good diligence and climbs a mountain), they should reap the consequence. What does that look like in real life? They've presumably paid into the pot so are entitled to some service.

Sorry the government pays for health care, we as individuals pay taxes for the privilege's of living here in this great nation, it is our elected government that decides on how it is going to spend those tax dollars. Tommorrow the government could decide to cut health care all together... and our only recourse would be to change the way we vote...Once you pay your taxes your involvement is done, your taxes becomes the government coffers, and they are free to spend it on what ever they want. 

Our health care only provides for the basic needs, you want anything over and above you or your insurance pays, like phone an ambulance, one will come , but then so will the bill, require expensive cancer treatment and you or your insurance pays, if not you get the basic treatment. you smoke, drink, you pay extra taxes... and in some cases if your a climber and require rescue you pay for the entire expense of that rescue...yes you are going to be rescued but you pay... 

In case of the Vaccination there should not be any refusal, unless you are allergic or some medical reason, but with so many vaccines being developed and produced that should not be an issue. no vaccine  no service at all, Why should someone be able to put someone else life at risk to treat some unvaccinated person because of another persons bad choice.. There has to be a line in the sand some where. 

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I don't believe that the government is going to poison us through vaccinations and even if the tinfoil-hats are correct that the vaccine will make us infertile that is past my concern as I am almost 50.

I don't have children anyway and never wanted any but still if I were younger I could give more listening to the tinfoil-hats.

Even though the vaccine won't be compulsory it will be practically compulsory as it will be demanded here and there that you have had it.

 

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