Mask wearing. The mark of the beast.

[OftenWrong]

32 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Of those 161 hospitals, the vast majority are tiny little rural facilities ill equipped to handle an infectious disease.  For decades, every politician promised hospitals to every corner of their constituency, and few have the balls to close them down.  Most are little more than first aid/nursing stations.

Almost all of them were running at 90% capacity long before the virus, by design. Blessing of healthcare "re-engineering" bestowed on us when people in business administration took over running hospitals. Financiers and shareholders, all rich people's kids they were, and fully sanctioned by the criminals in the Health Ministry. Aka, Mafioso..

But I digress.

They wanted to pare down the "excess" in the health care system. That is what they called it, excess. Of course they didn't mention how they intended to take that money out of front-line care by shutting down beds and services, so to pay for their fancy wages. Most of a hospital budget goes to payroll, and the Administration takes the cake. We even discovered they give themselves $500 Christmas bonuses. This is in a hospital, in 2012.

But I digress.

Shut down these services? Sure we said, that sounds logico. Shut the system down so that we can save money, and make it even better! Thirty years later the health care system is on its knees, people of Ontario now suffer because of it. Despite that we warned, we knew the population was aging, by year 2000 we would need this much extra capacity, the capacity was not built in. Not enough LTC's built either, so they go to the hospital and stay for months or years. System is teetering on the brink of collapse, actually gone beyond it but people don't notice. There is no way it could ever tolerate anything like an infectious outbreak. And then along came Mary...

[oops]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It seems you got it all figured out, i mean normally you plot a hoax with some sort of end goal right, what is the end goal here... Why is all this happening ? 

Not sure who that is addressed to, if it is me, I will respond. If it is meant for someone else,  I will mind my own business.

[oops]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Of those 161 hospitals, the vast majority are tiny little rural facilities ill equipped to handle an infectious disease.  For decades, every politician promised hospitals to every corner of their constituency, and few have the balls to close them down.  Most are little more than first aid/nursing stations.

If you are not looking for a solution, you will not find one. Transfer patients, transfer equipment set up field hospitals. We have world class army engineers that as far as I am aware have no war at the present time to occupy their rime. If you are faced with a problem you can suck on your thumb urinate in your pants or stand up like a man and address it. 

[Nefarious Banana]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Yes I'll be there along with most Canadians, to get my shot, because like most Canadians we are done with this virus and want to get back to some what normal life. And if that means getting a needle then I'm willing to do that. 

And if you and your friends don't want to play then good on ya..... 

Do as you please . . . .  

[oops]

Dialamah said If someone needs a ventilator, they'll die before they can get transferred to a ventilator or one can be brought to them.

If we can't save someone, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't prepare to save others. I don't  you don't know if you don't understand the graph I posted, or are just too lazy to read it. Flattening the curve saves no one. 75 % of the deaths from covid were residents of long term care homes, so what did the government do? On the advice of doctors who were elected by no one they locked down everyone else.  If you are going to pull the trigger you should first identify the target. People watched without caring as the government lockdowns killed many thousands of people on hospital waiting lists, drug dependent  people and victims of domestic abuse while saving no one. If anywhere in any of your  posts you showed one bit empathy for any of these people, I will apologize and regard you with greater respect. 

[marcus]

@oops

What are you arguing? You mentioned information that doesn't respond to the problem that the province has with the rising cases.

What is the solution? Kenney is finally responding. He has put in restrictions that he vowed not to do, just a few months ago. He understands that it needs to be done, in order to be able to have control over the spiraling numbers.

[marcus]

This is quite interesting. 

This Overlooked Variable Is the Key to the Pandemic

Link

Who are these super spreaders?

- Healthcare workers
- People who do not accept and do not want to follow the guidelines

 

[cougar]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Not even. Mother Theresa Tam, Canada's COVID-19 matriarch prescribes the use of face masks during sex:

Canada's top doctor: 'consider using a mask' during sexual activity

Very interesting.  What the article doesn't say is if the mask is supposed to cover the face or the genitals.   All articles these days are laughable.

[OftenWrong]

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It seems you got it all figured out, i mean normally you plot a hoax with some sort of end goal right, what is the end goal here... Why is all this happening ? 

I dunno. I ask myself why all the time for things. But I do notice things, whether that makes any difference. Whenever there's a catastrophe you'll get some people piling on, to make profit. Or to use the crisis to further their ideology. So there is a real crisis, and then there are forces that want to manipulate it, to take advantage of it for their own ends. They exacerbate the problem and redirect it, by careful messaging.

I do know Mr. Trudeau is enjoying the crisis. He is quite pleased at the prospects. Said so himself, it's an opportunity for a Great Reset. Get it? Great reset.

And another one who is grateful, European wunder-kind Greta Thunberg. All of a sudden she was put in front of us to generate our opinion about virology and how we need to keep the shutdown in place. I think her bullshit really works over in Europe, where they fall for that beautiful-and-wise-child crap. She is a religious icon, embodying the symbology of Das Krist-Kind. It means like, and a child shall lead them.

But even if you reject that there are elements looking to conspire, because you believe and have faith in humanity, then the default answer to that most fundamental and universal question is, because they are friggin stupid. The Premier shuts down gyms, swimming pools and restaurants without scientific substantiation. To date nary a case has been tied to thee places. Restaurateurs have written to the premier and the courts en-mass insisting they should be allowed open as long as they meet the new health code. Stores have done likewise. Hudsons Bay is fighting for their life in the courts. Why are they closed and Walmart open?

The majority of outbreaks are in the goddam LTC's, yet they haven't touched that. Mr Trudeau gave an empty promise.

I wonder why it is? 

[cannuck]

9 hours ago, oops said:

If you are not looking for a solution, you will not find one. Transfer patients, transfer equipment set up field hospitals. We have world class army engineers that as far as I am aware have no war at the present time to occupy their rime. If you are faced with a problem you can suck on your thumb urinate in your pants or stand up like a man and address it. 

We HAD "world class Army Engineers"....before the big Tur...ah...TRUdeau and his Minister of Space Aliens (a genuine space cadet himself! - Paul Hellyer for those who don't know) attacked the armed forces, "unified" them, turned the military into a social engineering project for his "Just Society" (that means when the Liberals are done with Canada, there will be nothing left, just society).  The drive to be (now how Liberal can you get?) "inclusive" and cheaper resulted in "unification" and recruiting people based on Liberal perception of the need to get votes from their identified minority trait (read "most likely to vote Liberal".   We went from having more than 100,000 regular forces each trained in the skills required for their land, sea or air element to about 60,000 or so regular forces shoved together in some social mix mish-mash that didn't know what they were there to do...other than work on the socially engineered agenda of government.   I know that sounds pretty harsh, but I was there on ground zero as both a reservist and civilian employee at Base Transport and RCEME during the start of the Trudeau/Hellyer fiasco.   A lot of very capable and dedicated people left the forces during that time.  Yes, I am very bitter about that as it made a mockery of the life of service my Father and Father-in-law dedicated their lives to.  I have also witnessed my own Son-in-law leave his very senior position as a rapidly rising Brigade officer over the direction that the current piss poor excuse for government has chosen for our military.

But, yes, if only the resources were at their disposal as required (as in already in place to meet national emergencies) the Army, Navy and Air Force could indeed set up field hospitals in strategic locations in military time (that is indeed faster than most civilian operations could manage).  It would move a lot faster and better if officers could simply give orders and expect them to be followed without having to check with HR and lawyers over the inhumanity of having to do what you are told, when you are ordered, and how you have been taught.

[cannuck]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Almost all of them were running at 90% capacity long before the virus, by design. Blessing of healthcare "re-engineering" bestowed on us when people in business administration took over running hospitals.

System is teetering on the brink of collapse, actually gone beyond it but people don't notice. There is no way it could ever tolerate anything like an infectious outbreak. And then along came Mary...

The sad part is 100% of those who survive the wait will receive service from the 100% of people that are paid to deliver these services.  Total mismanagement of the whole thing can't meet the realistic expectation of delivering on time.  When wait times are simply not allowed AT ALL in Japan, for instance, we know it can be done.

I am frequently reminded that the loss of accommodation and treatment within the sick care system of those with all kinds of lesser mental health afflictions directly contributes to the "homeless problem" in Canada (and I assume other countries).  The LTC system also suffers from seems a complete lack of design and oversight from a medical and often humanitarian perspective.   We can't lay this at the feet of just the extreme left (both Lib and NDP) since Conservative (right wing...uh...you have to be kidding) governments have done nothing to correct these inequities either - other than funding safe consumption sites and condone the spread of criminal and legally sanctioned drug empires and cultures instead of providing medically sound institutionalized care.

[Nefarious Banana]

14 hours ago, marcus said:

Those are fair comments with masks and I agree with some of them. Although, wearing a mask that is not 100% full proof is much better than not wearing one.

Do you agree with taxme and his conspiracy theories in regards to COVID being a hoax?

Why are you so worried about what other people think . . . . . try thinking for yourself.  You expect everyone to think like you do, then publicly whine about it when there's a different opinion than yours.

Your leader will tell you what to do.  Don't vary from his plan.  Be happy  . . . if that's possible.

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, marcus said:

- People who do not accept and do not want to follow the guidelines

I see, so anyone who does not accept and slavishly follow the guidelines. Guidelines that keep changing, whether they make sense or not, whether there are any real experts saying they are necessary, or not.

- Find all those who dare to challenge the authority! Route them out! Route them out!
They are the new Typhoid Marys!

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by OftenWrong

[marcus]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I dunno. I ask myself why all the time for things. But I do notice things, whether that makes any difference. Whenever there's a catastrophe you'll get some people piling on, to make profit. Or to use the crisis to further their ideology. So there is a real crisis, and then there are forces that want to manipulate it, to take advantage of it for their own ends. They exacerbate the problem and redirect it, by careful messaging.

I think there is always a real danger that the situation will be misused for selfish gains.

Not enough information is out yet, but from what I have seen from the market crisis 10 years ago, I'm sure this occasion has been used to put money into the pockets of 'friends'. 

We're already seeing companies who have received millions to help towards the pandemic, and then the company giving their CEOs large bonuses. 

CBC has started investigations into the money that has been handed out. This is just a start.

Quote

I do know Mr. Trudeau is enjoying the crisis. He is quite pleased at the prospects. Said so himself, it's an opportunity for a Great Reset. Get it? Great reset.

I'm not so worried about that comment as some seem to be.

We have a lot of inefficiencies in how our systems work. We are seeing how this pandemic has motivated and pushed companies and systems to use technology to become more efficient.

I do think that this is an opportunity to better our system. We just have to make sure that we know how what is being changed and to hold the government accountable.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by marcus

[marcus]

2 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Why are you so worried about what other people think . . . . . try thinking for yourself.  You expect everyone to think like you do, then publicly whine about it when there's a different opinion than yours.

Your leader will tell you what to do.  Don't vary from his plan.  Be happy  . . . if that's possible.

I don't have time for these kinds of conspiracy theories. This is why I want to know whether or not you subscribe to taxme's "The Great Hoax" theories. 

Why are you so bothered with this question? 

Re: The rest of your comments: You're being predictable, boring and divisive. I have no time for that. So if I don't respond to them from hereon, I hope you'll be able to move on.

Edited December 11, 2020 by marcus

[oops]

18 hours ago, dialamah said:

If someone needs a ventilator, they'll die before they can get transferred to a ventilator or one can be brought to them.  

Yeah, the government could have been more prepared, but they weren't, and now we have to deal with the reality of a pandemic in our country.  The reality is that we're treading water at this point, and the public health guidelines are there to keep us from drowning.

Since the issue is the need for ventilators I decided to google ventilators. Here is what I found. There are two kinds of ventilators, one is mechanical, the other manual. Looking up manual ventilators I discovered that one could be found at Walmart Canada for $57.49. I think that if I was looking for a solution, I would purchase enough of these to provide all the hospitals that are under equipped with mechanical ventilators all that they needed to provide temporary relief. I would also stock pile enough mechanical ventilators at an air field in central Canada that would be within a 4 hour flight of any part or Canada. This solution took me about two minutes. I was able to arrive at a solution, because I was looking for one.

 

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/FAGINEY-Manual-Resuscitator-PVC-Adult-Ambu-Bag-First-Aid-kit-Tool-Simple-Breathing-Apparatus/PRD65PDY974I01S

 

[cannuck]

13 minutes ago, oops said:

Since the issue is the need for ventilators I decided to google ventilators. Here is what I found. There are two kinds of ventilators, one is mechanical, the other manual. Looking up manual ventilators I discovered that one could be found at Walmart Canada for $57.49. I think that if I was looking for a solution, I would purchase enough of these to provide all the hospitals that are under equipped with mechanical ventilators all that they needed to provide temporary relief. I would also stock pile enough mechanical ventilators at an air field in central Canada that would be within a 4 hour flight of any part or Canada. This solution took me about two minutes. I was able to arrive at a solution, because I was looking for one.

 

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/FAGINEY-Manual-Resuscitator-PVC-Adult-Ambu-Bag-First-Aid-kit-Tool-Simple-Breathing-Apparatus/PRD65PDY974I01S

 

That is an emergency device that needs some to squeeze it to force air into their lungs.  You think hiring 4 shifts of medical technicians for EACH Covid patient, and have them spend their entire shift squeezing a bag every few seconds somehow is practical or even possible?  Actual medical ventilators come in many levels of sophistication from $10k to $50k or so each, and I believe Canada started stocking up on them when everyone else did in April/May.  Not sure what the status of inventory is.   BTW: the price of ventilators did just what the price of masks and all other PPE did this spring - went up by several hundred percent in the open market...IF you could even find any.  I believe there has been some domestic production started and running smoothly since then.  and yes, hospitals, nursing station, clinics and ambulances all have them in genuine medical grade, not Chinese WalMart crap.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by cannuck

[oops]

13 hours ago, marcus said:

@oops

What are you arguing? You mentioned information that doesn't respond to the problem that the province has with the rising cases.

What is the solution? Kenney is finally responding. He has put in restrictions that he vowed not to do, just a few months ago. He understands that it needs to be done, in order to be able to have control over the spiraling numbers.

Here is what I believe. We are often told that the measures the government took are based on what we learned from the 1918 H1N1 influenza pandemic. This virus baffled the medical community because it caused the deaths of people with weak immune systems, and people with strong immune systems. When they examined the lungs of young healthy people who died they found massive damage, and the cause of death was often pneumonia. They soon determined that the cause was an overreaction of the immune system called a cytokine storm.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm

Scientists have mapped key elements of a severe immune overreaction -— a “cytokine storm” -— that can both sicken and kill patients who are infected with certain strains of flu virus. A cytokine storm is an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs. The resulting lung inflammation and fluid buildup can lead to respiratory distress and can be contaminated by a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- often enhancing the mortality in patients.

In 1918 it was necessary to lock down the general population because they were unable to target one segment of the population. Covid is a different virus, and does not cause a cytokine storm. It is a virus that causes mild to moderate symptoms  in most people.   in cases resolved in either  recovery or death, over 96% result in recovery, lass than 4% in death. Of the 4% of cases that are fatal 75% of those occur in a small group of people who are residents of long term care facilities, meaning that the recovery rate of the remaining population has around 99% . This would indicate that a targeted approach on a specific group seems more logical. You can put more resources where they will get better results. This would also limit the collateral damage resulting in deaths for people on hospital waiting lists, opiod dependent people and would lessen the increase of domestic abuse that has resulted from the lockdowns.

As for ventilators, I found that you can purchase a first aid mechanical ventilator form Walmart Canada for $57.49. I would purchase enough o these to furnish all the hospitals that lack the mechanical ones. If you had a supply of mechanical ventilators at an airfield in central Canada you would be able to deliver a mechanical ventilator in under 4 hours to anywhere in Canada.

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/FAGINEY-Manual-Resuscitator-PVC-Adult-Ambu-Bag-First-Aid-kit-Tool-Simple-Breathing-Apparatus/PRD65PDY974I01S

 

[OftenWrong]

48 minutes ago, cannuck said:

You think hiring 4 shifts of medical technicians for EACH Covid patient, and have them spend their entire shift squeezing a bag every few seconds somehow is practical or even possible?

They don't necessarily need to be medical technicians. Could use body-builders, for example.

Covid -91 is really challenging us to rethink things in different ways...

[oops]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

That is an emergency device that needs some to squeeze it to force air into their lungs.  You think hiring 4 shifts of medical technicians for EACH Covid patient, and have them spend their entire shift squeezing a bag every few seconds somehow is practical or even possible?  Actual medical ventilators come in many levels of sophistication from $10k to $50k or so each, and I believe Canada started stocking up on them when everyone else did in April/May.  Not sure what the status of inventory is.   BTW: the price of ventilators did just what the price of masks and all other PPE did this spring - went up by several hundred percent in the open market...IF you could even find any.  I believe there has been some domestic production started and running smoothly since then.  and yes, hospitals, nursing station, clinics and ambulances all have them in genuine medical grade, not Chinese WalMart crap.

 

Yes I do believe this is possible.  I also believe that it is better than leaving someone to die. As I stated, if proper preparation was done, there would be at most a four hour window to provide a mechanical ventilator. Perhaps you are a better shopper than me, and could a better ventilator. If the government has $300 billion to spend paying people not to work, perhaps they could even buy more mechanical ventilators. Hope that is not too much lateral thinking all at once for you.

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, oops said:

Not sure who that is addressed to, if it is me, I will respond. If it is meant for someone else,  I will mind my own business.

sorry that was for taxme

[Army Guy]

9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I dunno. I ask myself why all the time for things. But I do notice things, whether that makes any difference. Whenever there's a catastrophe you'll get some people piling on, to make profit. Or to use the crisis to further their ideology. So there is a real crisis, and then there are forces that want to manipulate it, to take advantage of it for their own ends. They exacerbate the problem and redirect it, by careful messaging.

I do know Mr. Trudeau is enjoying the crisis. He is quite pleased at the prospects. Said so himself, it's an opportunity for a Great Reset. Get it? Great reset.

And another one who is grateful, European wunder-kind Greta Thunberg. All of a sudden she was put in front of us to generate our opinion about virology and how we need to keep the shutdown in place. I think her bullshit really works over in Europe, where they fall for that beautiful-and-wise-child crap. She is a religious icon, embodying the symbology of Das Krist-Kind. It means like, and a child shall lead them.

But even if you reject that there are elements looking to conspire, because you believe and have faith in humanity, then the default answer to that most fundamental and universal question is, because they are friggin stupid. The Premier shuts down gyms, swimming pools and restaurants without scientific substantiation. To date nary a case has been tied to thee places. Restaurateurs have written to the premier and the courts en-mass insisting they should be allowed open as long as they meet the new health code. Stores have done likewise. Hudsons Bay is fighting for their life in the courts. Why are they closed and Walmart open?

The majority of outbreaks are in the goddam LTC's, yet they haven't touched that. Mr Trudeau gave an empty promise.

I wonder why it is? 

Having people take advantage of situations has been around since the beginning of time, not everyone however is chasing the old mighty dollar and don't care who they knock down to do that. But like you said they always mange to survive to take advantage of the crises. 

Yes Justin is taking advantage of the crises, big time, it takes the focus off all the other things he has done. That being said nothing is going to stick to him, in the eyes of liberal supporters. and his fans will only grow as they ( canadians) see him as the savior of the Covid-19. As much as I dislike Justin, his staff does deserve credit for their ability to turn shit into a lobster dinner, and do it over and over fixing Justins screw ups.. Justin knows he is going to have to raise taxes to pay for all this shit, he would be smart to send us into an election before that time, he knows he is going to lose lots of support once people start looking at their tax bills..

 All the cons have to do is delay that to after tax time.... I think Justin is going to have to watch spending very carefully for now on, our credit rating has been turned down, and as they look at Justin future spending plans they have warned it will drive that rating even further south.

As for conspiracy theories, there is lots of them, they are endless and most are beyond reality as for the others once you ask the question who, why and what is their objective they seem to me to fall apart. and I can not figure out a reason for any of them that makes any sense. I don't really have faith in humanity, I've seen first hand what we are capable of, and its not good. That being said can you really say their is something wrong, and what is it.

I'm not making excuses for the liberals actions, or for that matter the WHO, or other nations that were taken down the same path. But we have not been in a crises like this one before, and I'm sure neither has the current liberals or cons so there is no play book to go by, no step by step instructions, mistakes are bound to happen, and there is a price for all these mistakes, as noted by a lot of people on here. The question is could any other party have done this perfectly, without mistakes, with out costs being finical or human. I doubt it...

Had we sat on our hands like some countries we would be in an event that would quickly  overwhelm our first responders. watching everything spin out of control. So something had to be done, and doing nothing was not the right answer. 

 

 

 

[Petros]

23 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2020/8/16/1_5066330.html

 

The first mask mandate in San Francisco went into effect on Oct. 25, 1918, and while it wasn't popular, news coverage of the time reviewed in the Influenza Encyclopedia (a project of the Center for the History of Medicine at the University of Michigan) suggests that 4 in 5 San Franciscans were compliant. The reports are to be taken with a grain of salt, since no formal surveys were conducted, Navarro said.

Many San Franciscans, however, got in trouble with the law for breaking the rules. On October 27, 1918, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that 110 people were arrested and charged with "disturbing the peace" for not wearing their masks at all or not wearing them properly. On November 9, 1918, 1,000 people were arrested for being "mask slackers," crowding the prison. The story was also published in the Chronicle.

 

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/face-masks-what-the-spanish-flu-can-teach-us-about-making-them-compulsory-137648

There were fines against coughing, sneezing, spitting, kissing and even talking outdoors – those the Boston Globe called “big talkers”. Special influenza police were hired to round up children playing on street corners and occasionally even in their own backyards.

Restrictions were similarly tough in Canada, Australia and South Africa, though much less so in the UK and continental Europe. Where there were such restrictions, the public accepted it all with few objections. Unlike the long history of cholera, especially in Europe, or the plague in the Indian subcontinent from 1896 to around 1902, no mass violence erupted and blame was rare – even against Spaniards or minorities.

 

There ya go.  

But...but...but...

 

That's Communism!  The anti-maskers said it would lead to our rights being taken away on a permanent basis.

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, cannuck said:

  I know that sounds pretty harsh, but I was there on ground zero as both a reservist and civilian employee at Base Transport and RCEME during the start of the Trudeau/Hellyer fiasco.   A lot of very capable and dedicated people left the forces during that time.  Yes, I am very bitter about that as it made a mockery of the life of service my Father and Father-in-law dedicated their lives to.  I have also witnessed my own Son-in-law leave his very senior position as a rapidly rising Brigade officer over the direction that the current piss poor excuse for government has chosen for our military.

But, yes, if only the resources were at their disposal as required (as in already in place to meet national emergencies) the Army, Navy and Air Force could indeed set up field hospitals in strategic locations in military time (that is indeed faster than most civilian operations could manage).  It would move a lot faster and better if officers could simply give orders and expect them to be followed without having to check with HR and lawyers over the inhumanity of having to do what you are told, when you are ordered, and how you have been taught.

I don't think there is a Canadian military person that has not struggled with the question is it really worth all the sacrifice that is required to soldier for this nation. Yes it has been completely ignored by decades of governments from both sides liberal and cons. But it is also been ignored by it's citizens, they have been silent for decades and without their support the forces is going to continue to slide into the dumpster. 

If Canadians actually knew the condition of our Armed forces, they would be disgusted, this condition is to be blamed on like you said on a huge drain on highly skilled soldiers, who have quit to look for better employment with better futures. This skill loss along with lack of modern equipment, and resources  is weakening the entire forces capabilities. a lot of Capabilities are lost already. This has been going on for decades. It is truly frustrating to have government after government lie and continue the destruction, but it is heart breaking that the very citizens we defend no longer give a shit or are willing to stand up and demand the government to act. 

Our military has time after time proven that they are world class soldiers, held back from their true capabilities by old and obsolete equipment, lack of funding, or government policies made only to complicate DND existence. 

[Petros]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I don't think there is a Canadian military person that has not struggled with the question is it really worth all the sacrifice that is required to soldier for this nation. Yes it has been completely ignored by decades of governments from both sides liberal and cons. But it is also been ignored by it's citizens, they have been silent for decades and without their support the forces is going to continue to slide into the dumpster. 

If Canadians actually knew the condition of our Armed forces, they would be disgusted, this condition is to be blamed on like you said on a huge drain on highly skilled soldiers, who have quit to look for better employment with better futures. This skill loss along with lack of modern equipment, and resources  is weakening the entire forces capabilities. a lot of Capabilities are lost already. This has been going on for decades. It is truly frustrating to have government after government lie and continue the destruction, but it is heart breaking that the very citizens we defend no longer give a shit or are willing to stand up and demand the government to act. 

Our military has time after time proven that they are world class soldiers, held back from their true capabilities by old and obsolete equipment, lack of funding, or government policies made only to complicate DND existence. 

We should build up our military to the point that it represents 3% of our GDP. We should also make young people serve in the military for 12 months upon turning 18.