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The Progressive Conservatives are back


Argus

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On 11/14/2020 at 5:26 PM, Argus said:

Way to the right? Can you even name one right wing policy the Tories had in their platform last election?

Anti-immigration is not a Trumpian idea. Immigration and migration have been upsetting growing numbers of people across Europe, America and Canada for several years, mainly because the elites in charge have sneered at their concerns and ignored them. Trump simply took advantage of that existing sentiment.

 

RIght-wing is in the eye of the beholder. I would take a mainstream Canadian view on where it is. As for differences In policy in 2019, I see quite a few here, starting with budget deficits which are a non-trivial matter as we may find out in this country soon enough: 

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/federal/2019/party-platforms/

No serious party is going to run on a Bernier-style policy platform in Canada because the votes are simply not there, as was recently demonstrated. Whom would you prefer: Trudeau or O’Toole? That’s the choice you will have to make. 

Yes, immigration is a big issue across the West and should be a concern for all parties and factions within parties these days - even US Democrats will be looking at it again in light of theIr poor congressional results - but Trump has done a lot more than build on reasonable worries about illegal immigration and even the scale of legal immigration. Some of the ‘good people’ he refused to disown in Charlottesville were chanting “Jews will not replace us”, a bizarre preoccupation of some white nativists. He constantly panders to these extremists and that is extremely dangerous in a multiracial society. The US does need immigration reform and such legislation would require require bipartisan support which he didn’t work to achieve. 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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12 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

RIght-wing is in the eye of the beholder. I would take a mainstream Canadian view on where it is.

Me too. And by a mainstream view nothing about the Conservatives' last election platform was conservative.

12 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

As for differences In policy in 2019, I see quite a few here, starting with budget deficits which are a non-trivial matter as we may find out in this country soon enough: 

Scheer's election promise was to get back to budget balance 'eventually'. He abandoned the notion of doing it in his first term, or any specifics about how it might be done.

12 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

No serious party is going to run on a Bernier-style policy platform in Canada because the votes are simply not there, as was recently demonstrated. Whom would you prefer: Trudeau or O’Toole? That’s the choice you will have to make. 

We weren't talking about Bernier but the Conservatives. However, there was a lot to like in Bernier's platform if you are a conservative. That included an end to corporate welfare, an end to supply management, stressing Canadian identity instead of multiculturalism, a crackdown on phony refugees and lowering the immigration rate. Not to mention supporting freedom of expression and forcing through pipelines while reforming the regulatory environment to make it more business friendly.

12 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Yes, immigration is a big issue across the West and should be a concern for all parties and factions within parties these days - even US Democrats will be looking at it again in light of theIr poor congressional results - but Trump has done a lot more than build on reasonable worries about illegal immigration and even the scale of legal immigration. Some of the ‘good people’ he refused to disown in Charlottesville were chanting “Jews will not replace us”, a bizarre preoccupation of some white nativists. He constantly panders to these extremists and that is extremely dangerous in a multiracial society. The US does need immigration reform and such legislation would require require bipartisan support which he didn’t work to achieve. 

You will find few people on this site with more contempt for Trump than I, but we aren't talking about him but the Tory party.

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11 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

O’Toole has a reasonable tone. He’s not a fiery wild-eyed ideologue. I can see him winning centrist voters over. 

So can I. What remains to be seen is how different an O'Toole government would be from a Trudeau government. Less colourful socks, certainly, less selfies, of course. But in the meat and potatoes of policy I'm not sure.

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24 minutes ago, Argus said:

Less colourful socks,

Isn't that a Canadian value, and thus required of all leaders?  

Anyway, I tried to find some policies of the Conservative party, but was unsuccessful.  Other than the standard "Liberals are bad,  we'll make everything ok" schtick.  So as of now, I have no idea if the O'Toole Conservatives are a party I could support.  I suppose in my ideal world, I'd like to see their policies now, and how well they adhere to them while in opposition.  I'm ok with change ir updates, as they learn more and circumstances change.

But I suppose they consider it in their best interest to auto-reject anything the Liberals come up with, then create some policy at election time by guessing the mood of Canadians at that time.

According to Trudeaumeter, the Liverals have kept 143 if their 230 election promises, broken 67 and are working on 20.  I dunno if that's good or bad relative to other parties.

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Talk-talk-talk. Canada has become a leftist liberal/conservative and socialist country and has been that way for decades now. The Canadian voters keep showing us this every four years. Real and true conservatism has pretty much all disappeared here in Canada today. The only real and true conservative political party left in Canada today is the People's Party of Canada with Maxine Bernier as it's leader. To vote for this so called liberal Conservative Party of Canada with it's leader O'Toolas it's liberal leader is a vote for keeping liberalism alive and well in Canada. 

The one that started up this topic is far from being a real and true conservative because he still supports the progressive conservative party and thinks that liberal party is what Canada needs. O'Tool is a globalist and not a real and true conservative. O'Tool is just another puppet on a string for the new world order deep state globalist elite or as some call it today the "Great New Reset". This great new reset is what will finish the world that we all once knew 8 months ago off and replace it with a system of globalist power and control and the injections of RFID chips into our bodies from vaccines. 

This is a conspiracy folks. This is not about Convid 19. This talk and plan of the great new reset has been around for decades. It is only fools who will not do their own homework and research and see that they are about to lose their old normal lives and be replaced by a new normal communist like life, a life that no one will be happy with except the globalist billionaire elite. Believe it or not. And the progressive conservatives are backing this GREAT RESET agenda with their stupid support of world globalism. There can be no doubt it that there is a conspiracy going on against the people, but sadly, the people will go along with it without a whimper or a question. The progressive conservatives should not be trusted with our freedoms ever. My opinion. 

Source: The Corbett Report and the great reset. ;)

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On 11/16/2020 at 1:41 PM, Argus said:

So can I. What remains to be seen is how different an O'Toole government would be from a Trudeau government. Less colourful socks, certainly, less selfies, of course. But in the meat and potatoes of policy I'm not sure.

Whom would you trust less to deal with budgets and immigration? O’Toole may not be that different from Trudeau but he is a safer pair of hands. On the purely personal side, I’d say we’d see fewer unnecessary scandals with him as well. 

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I think that the covid is going to dictate budgets for years to come, It is to bad we can't take this opportunity "the interest rates are low" and fix some of the major problems here in Canada, like health care, our entire security apparatus, our infra structure deficit .... I mean other nations are doing just that, Australia just dumped 340 bil on their military... Not that we need to or anything, but something would be better than what we have now, 

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The only conservative on Canadian political radar is Max.  In our national rush to be a cold version of Venezuela the ignorant and idiotic citizenry can be and has been bought by indebting future generations to pursue an unsustainable agenda from the left.  In other words: a failed (yes, past failing) state.  Stooping low enough to elect Dimples and now an ambulance chaser to lead their party is indeed a return to the "PC" days.

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On 11/15/2020 at 5:14 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

If you represent Canadians as the PM you could bother to swing by at least one of the parades, especially if all the other parties are.

That's a dumb Idea. It'd a dumb idea for them to go there, but for them to be forced to go there is...i don't have the words for that stupid.

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On 11/13/2020 at 11:45 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

If their religious views are against supporting people celebrating being LGBT then their religious views are bigoted garbage.  I don't want homophobic bigots as my PM.

What you think about African aid is irrelevant.  Our government gives foreign aid no matter what you think, and Harper, being the Christian nutjob that he is, apparently thinks Africans shouldn't wear condoms in order to prevent HIV and unwanted pregnancy.  Anyone who thinks condoms are more evil than millions dying from HIV and children living in dire poverty is insane.

It sounds like there is NO comprise here, you either dance in the streets with the gay community or face being labeled  homophobic bigot, and top that off every other Canadian is free to practice their religion in any way except Christianity with out being called a nut job.

Where does the line get drawn, i mean Canada is a diverse country, attend one event and one would be expected to attend them all. When is it they get to do actual politics and run the country. 

Do you have a source that harper refused to send condoms, or was it over sight ?

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2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It sounds like there is NO comprise here, you either dance in the streets with the gay community or face being labeled  homophobic bigot, and top that off every other Canadian is free to practice their religion in any way except Christianity with out being called a nut job.

Where does the line get drawn, i mean Canada is a diverse country, attend one event and one would be expected to attend them all. When is it they get to do actual politics and run the country.

They don't have to dance in the streets, or show up every year, they just have to show even just once in 10 years to acknowledge their humanity.  Imagine that!  I would think going at least once every 3 years or so is enough.

No, every single person regardless of religion who believes that gay people are evil sinners and would deny them basic human rights is a homophobe.  Some Muslim countries put gay people to death, shame on them.

 

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On 11/14/2020 at 7:14 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

If you represent Canadians as the PM you could bother to swing by at least one of the parades, especially if all the other parties are.

If you disagree with homosexuality you're a turd bigot and your religious beliefs shouldn't be a cover for it.  In several Muslim countries homosexuals are put to death.

If the PM chooses to march in parades then he should march in all parades no matter who is holding them.  Fair is fair.  But if he only chooses to march in gay parades he is doing little more than virtue-signalling while showing his disdain for the participants of other parades. 

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1 hour ago, mowich said:

If the PM chooses to march in parades then he should march in all parades no matter who is holding them.  Fair is fair.  But if he only chooses to march in gay parades he is doing little more than virtue-signalling while showing his disdain for the participants of other parades. 

Which other parades are these?  The Santa Claus parade?

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23 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

No, every single person regardless of religion who believes that gay people are evil sinners and would deny them basic human rights is a homophobe

 

And also any minister who doesn't go to gay pride parade? It's sad when you insist your superiors should kiss their inferiors ass — yours, and you're willing to then pretend their "gesture" was genuine, after you forced them to do it.

 

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23 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

They don't have to dance in the streets, or show up every year, they just have to show even just once in 10 years to acknowledge their humanity.  Imagine that!  I would think going at least once every 3 years or so is enough.

No, every single person regardless of religion who believes that gay people are evil sinners and would deny them basic human rights is a homophobe.  Some Muslim countries put gay people to death, shame on them.

 

i don't believe gay people are sinners, I think whats happens in your bedroom should stay there, unless it is abuse... i

and i don't have a problem with everyone having basic human rights, that being said, I'm not putting on a skirt and dancing in the streets with them either. And i don't think we need special laws for them either, everyone is already covered by existing laws.  

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23 hours ago, Marocc said:

 

And also any minister who doesn't go to gay pride parade? It's sad when you insist your superiors should kiss their inferiors ass — yours, and you're willing to then pretend their "gesture" was genuine, after you forced them to do it.

 

I don't care if they agree with it or not.  They represent me and the people of Canada, they're my b*tch, they work for me.  So as my b*tch and my employee they will STFU and *gasp* recognize the humanity of gay people.  If they don't like it they can quit like any employee.   Canadians should demand no less from their Prime Ministers.  I have to do things at work I don't like and that I don't agree with.  I think you're confused on who the superior and the inferior is here.

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11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I don't care if they agree with it or not.  They represent me and the people of Canada, they're my b*tch, they work for me.  So as my b*tch and my employee they will STFU and *gasp* recognize the humanity of gay people.  If they don't like it they can quit like any employee.   Canadians should demand no less from their Prime Ministers.  I have to do things at work I don't like and that I don't agree with.  I think you're confused on who the superior and the inferior is here.

*backs away quietly

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15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I don't care if they agree with it or not.

Clearly that's untrue.

We don't require politicians to surrender their religious beliefs and values, just to not push them on us. Attending a 'parade' filled with dancing men in G-strings waving giant plastic penises around is not something religious people generally want to experience. Can't say I blame them either.

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6 hours ago, Argus said:

Clearly that's untrue.

We don't require politicians to surrender their religious beliefs and values, just to not push them on us. Attending a 'parade' filled with dancing men in G-strings waving giant plastic penises around is not something religious people generally want to experience. Can't say I blame them either.

I think an MP and a party leader can do as they please, but a PM is different in that they represent all Canadians.

I also think it would be fine to not attend the parades if there was clear support/celebration for LGBT rights in other ways.  We never saw this during the Harper years:  https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/pride-flag-raised-at-parliament-hill-for-first-time-1.2926996?cache=yes

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2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I think an MP and a party leader can do as they please, but a PM is different in that they represent all Canadians.

I also think it would be fine to not attend the parades if there was clear support/celebration for LGBT rights in other ways.  We never saw this during the Harper years:  https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/pride-flag-raised-at-parliament-hill-for-first-time-1.2926996?cache=yes

Why do LGBT and whatever other letters are now attached to it need 'rights'? I mean, above and beyond what the Charter gives everyone? And why does it matter what a government thinks of a particular 'right' if that 'right' is guaranteed by the Charter? I notice you don't demand that a politician support your rights. Is that because you presume they all do or that you presume there's not much they can do about it one way or another?

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