Andrew Jackson = Donald Trump

[August1991]

It is hard to see otherwise.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, August1991 said:

It is hard to see otherwise.

 

Indeed...others have also made such a comparison.   Open contempt for the existing political class and protocols were common to both.    The interesting difference is that Jackson was defeated by the EC and Congress on his first attempt, fueling his anger for the corrupt elitists.    Trump succeeded on his first attempt.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/430927-america-lived-through-a-trump-like-presidency-before-with-lasting

[August1991]

I admire America because it hates the status quo.

Yet, America has created a stable society.

====

Years ago, I recall meeting a young woman born in Thailand of mixed parentage. As she said, before arriving in California, she said: "In America, I was free."

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, August1991 said:

Years ago, I recall meeting a young woman born in Thailand of mixed parentage. As she said, before arriving in California, she said: "In America, I was free."

And yet, she left.  Possibly due to racism, poverty and lack of healthcare   ?

[Moonlight Graham]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:46 PM, August1991 said:

It is hard to see otherwise.

Pretty good argument.

[BeaverFever]

Didn’t we just have pages and pages of argument over how evil those slave-owning racist Democrats (like Jackson) were?

Also you’ll have to point me to part of the history book where Jackson faked bone spurs to avoid military service  and doled out political favours to those who stayed at his hotel chain. And Trump’s Trail of Tears came from kids in cages instead of those placed on a forced march. 
 

But, on the other hand they’re  both wife-beaters and both hate black people so they’re not completely dissimilar. 
 

Edit::

 

Andrew Jackson's spoils system is the most obvious way in which he broke his promise to fight Washington corruption. Under the spoils system, Jackson replaced many upstanding civil service agents--approximately 10% of federally appointed positions--with his own friends and supporters, many of whom brought incompetence to their posts. [1] While Jackson advertised federal reform as a means to clean out the corrupt ilk left behind by Adams, his spoils system aw a rash of appointments based on personal relationships and favors owed rather than merit and eligibility. This reeked heavily of the corruption Jackson swore to crusade against.

http://projects.leadr.msu.edu/youngamerica/exhibits/show/andrew-jackson-real-or-fraud/spoils-system

oh now I see it. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by BeaverFever

[August1991]

On 11/9/2020 at 11:01 AM, Michael Hardner said:

And yet, she left.  Possibly due to racism, poverty and lack of healthcare   ?

No, Michael, in America - and by this I mean the USA - individuals are free.

In America, you are what you are. Obama knew this. He had a chance to make America great.

====

To be honest, I recall meeting a young man years ago near Toronto, and as he explained, he was a mix of a US sailor and BC woman. 

[August1991]

2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

No, Michael, in America - and by this I mean the USA - individuals are free.

In America, you are what you are. Obama knew this. He had a chance to make America great.

====

To be honest, I recall meeting a young man years ago near Toronto, and as he explained, he was a mix of a black US sailor and a white BC woman. He explained this as we drove to New York.

Let me make this plain: America is a place where different people can fall in love/have children in peace. 

 

[August1991]

On 11/9/2020 at 11:23 PM, BeaverFever said:

Andrew Jackson's spoils system is the most obvious way in which he broke his promise to fight Washington corruption. Under the spoils system, Jackson replaced many upstanding civil service agents....

Welcome to the New America.

It's like the Old America.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

1. No, Michael, in America - and by this I mean the USA - individuals are free.

2. In America, you are what you are. Obama knew this. He had a chance to make America great.

====

To be honest, I recall meeting a young man years ago near Toronto, and as he explained, he was a mix of a US sailor and BC woman. 

1. Without further exploration you leave it to us to imagine what you mean by 'free'.  I feel like I am 'free' but I chip in a tiny bit more to make sure the parks are nice, the hospitals are nice, and for the commons to be a little richer.  I don't see myself as any less 'free'.  

If you speak in oracles it's hard to have a solid discussion with a foundation.

2. Sort of.  He tried to make America Canada.

====

And so he chose Canada ?  So he hated freedom.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

1. Welcome to the New America. It's like the Old America.

 

2. Let me make this plain: America is a place where different people can fall in love/have children in peace. 

1. Yeah, too much.  In fact it's anti-American because America has always embraced newness while building on its foundations.

2. As opposed to every other nation on earth.

Auguste I love your writing style more than anyone's on here but it is too much like peeling an onion without even the fake tears.

[August1991]

On 11/11/2020 at 10:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Without further exploration you leave it to us to imagine what you mean by 'free'.  I feel like I am 'free' but I chip in a tiny bit more to make sure the parks are nice, the hospitals are nice, and for the commons to be a little richer.  I don't see myself as any less 'free'.  

If you speak in oracles it's hard to have a solid discussion with a foundation.

2. Sort of.  He tried to make America Canada.

====

And so he chose Canada ?  So he hated freedom.

Michael,

America is a place where a child of mixed race parents/language/religion can live.

In America, the individual exists.

In Russia and China and India and elsewhere, you are defined. 

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, August1991 said:

Michael,

America is a place where a child of mixed race parents/language/religion can live.

In America, the individual exists.

In Russia and China and India and elsewhere, you are defined. 

You are speaking in oracles again.  All of these attributes you assign to a nation, are global.

"If you speak in oracles it's hard to have a solid discussion with a foundation."

 

"In Canada, a person has a name.  IN America you can do things.  In Russia you can't jump off the earth."

All true, but what are you trying to say ?  This isn't "Being There" with Peter Sellers, we need to understand each other.

[Argus]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:46 PM, August1991 said:

It is hard to see otherwise.

They were both bastards. But Jackson, unlike Trump, was a brave one. Trump, on the other hand, is a notorious coward.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Argus

[August1991]

On 11/14/2020 at 8:21 AM, Michael Hardner said:

You are speaking in oracles again.  All of these attributes you assign to a nation, are global.

"If you speak in oracles it's hard to have a solid discussion with a foundation."

 

"In Canada, a person has a name.  IN America you can do things.  In Russia you can't jump off the earth."

All true, but what are you trying to say ?  This isn't "Being There" with Peter Sellers, we need to understand each other.

Some people chose to be here.

Other people were forced to be here.

And some people were simply here.

====

For some reason, for many people, this seems a big deal.

IMHO, the future is a better place. 

[August1991]

On 11/14/2020 at 8:21 AM, Michael Hardner said:

You are speaking in oracles again.  All of these attributes you assign to a nation, are global.

....

Let me consider any random person alive 5000 years ago and any person alive now.

An aboriginal in North America lives better now than before - 5000 years ago.

Even a poor Egyptian lives better now than before - 5000 years ago.

Edited November 19, 2020 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Let me consider any random person alive 5000 years ago and any person alive now.

An aboriginal in North America lives better now than before - 5000 years ago.

Even a poor Egyptian lives better now than before - 5000 years ago.

I agree.  Now we're getting somewhere...

 

[MICHAEL SCROLLS TO THE TOP TO CHECK IN ON WHAT THE TOPIC IS, HAVING FORGOTTEN.  SEES WHAT IT IS.  MOUTHS 'WTF' WHILE SQUINTING SO HARD HIS EYES HURT]

[August1991]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree.  Now we're getting somewhere...

 

[MICHAEL SCROLLS TO THE TOP TO CHECK IN ON WHAT THE TOPIC IS, HAVING FORGOTTEN.  SEES WHAT IT IS.  MOUTHS 'WTF' WHILE SQUINTING SO HARD HIS EYES HURT]

Like Nelson Mandela, Michael gets my point.

Maybe some others will understand -like Donald Trump- the future is a better/richer place.

How do we get there? To this future?

-prices, numbers, markets seem to work, they make us richer, better off, discover more

-sharing, communal thinking, centralisation, such thinking doesn't work - they will keep us in poverty   

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

Like Nelson Mandela, Michael gets my point.

Maybe some others will understand -like Donald Trump- the future is a better/richer place.

How do we get there? To this future?

-prices, numbers, markets seem to work, they make us richer, better off, discover more

-sharing, communal thinking, centralisation, such thinking doesn't work - they will keep us in poverty   

 

Sure but that was the thinking of the past.  Decentralized socialism is possible now.

 

Imagine Uber, except it pays fairly.

[Michael Hardner]

@August1991  

Let me help your thinking.  

In the Fertile Crescent, people were TRULY free.  There were no laws.  If you killed someone, that was your option and you only had to worry about the reaction of others not 'the state'.  People created a system of central government that required 'laws' which restricted freedom.  But one of the laws they created actually delegated authority for person-to-person transactions via authorized currency, ie. 'money'.

The system worked so well that it only needed a few tweaks over thousands of years:
- the option of the people to select the persons who create the laws
- a set of constitutional precepts that could NOT easily be changed
- a forced tithe to create resources for the commons
 

Now, money exchange came out of human technological advances, not out of changes in human nature.  ie. Humans didn't become more trusting or less trusting by nature... they remained as selfish and selfless as ever however they now had a technology (money exchange) to facilitate their own desires, whether they be selfless or selfish.

We are now past the threshold of another major technological advance - pervasive digital technology.  How can we use that to create a common (central) understanding of how we interact and also facilitate distributed power ?  

What is the Uber of day-to-day living that we can use to solve the social problems of today ?

 

[August1991]

On 11/19/2020 at 8:50 AM, Michael Hardner said:

@August1991  

...  But one of the laws they created actually delegated authority for person-to-person transactions via authorized currency, ie. 'money'

.....

Money?

Michael, before money, people first had to be able to write - heck, they first had to be able to count.

Imagine a world of 50,000 years ago - the first person who could count.

====

1) Are we creating numbers?

2) Or, are we discovering numbers? 

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, August1991 said:

Money?

Michael, before money, people first had to be able to write - heck, they first had to be able to count.

Imagine a world of 50,000 years ago - the first person who could count.

====

1) Are we creating numbers?

2) Or, are we discovering numbers? 

It all happened together.

We are creating them.

[August1991]

On 11/21/2020 at 11:20 AM, Michael Hardner said:

It all happened together.

We are creating them.

Nelson Mandela? Money?

From Andrew Jackson to Donald Trump?

I see an obvious, uh, connection.

=====

If we in the present do things right, argue less, the future has tremendous potential.

Edited December 19, 2020 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

56 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Nelson Mandela? Money?

From Andrew Jackson to Donald Trump?

I see an obvious, uh, connection.

=====

If we in the present do things right, argue less, the future has tremendous potential.

Barney Rubble?  Doritos ?

From Bjork to Joan Rivers ?

Every word has another word that is said in the same sentence as that word.