betsy Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 He promises to shut down Covid 19. If we look to Europe - even after all the precautions they'd taken - covid 19 is surging again! The blame lay on the people who refuse to adhere to social distancing and wearing of masks, to those who insists on gathering. Biden won't lock down the country, he says. That remains to be seen. But there's something else that he might do. Declare martial law. Is that a big possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 Unforgivable that a presidential candidate would have indoor rallies during a pandemic and downplay the need for masks and social distancing. There's no need for martial law, but there is a need for people to grab a brain about supporting candidates who are working to spread China's virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 Trump rallies are held outdoors since the Wuhan Flu arrived. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted November 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) Of course there's no need for martial law! Stay on topic, will ya? Answer this: HOW IS BIDEN GOING TO SHUT DOWN THE VIRUS? Edited November 1, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ironstone Posted November 1, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, BubberMiley said: Unforgivable that a presidential candidate would have indoor rallies during a pandemic and downplay the need for masks and social distancing. There's no need for martial law, but there is a need for people to grab a brain about supporting candidates who are working to spread China's virus. I'm curious about your opinion of the sizable BLM/ANTIFA riots . Large gatherings of people where the only purpose is to destroy things and cause havoc. Most on the political left are perfectly fine with these riots caused by anarchists in close proximity. Why are the Burn Loot Murder riots just fine but peaceful political rallies inherently dangerous? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, ironstone said: I'm curious about your opinion of the sizable BLM/ANTIFA riots . Large gatherings of people where the only purpose is to destroy things and cause havoc. Most on the political left are perfectly fine with these riots caused by anarchists in close proximity. Why are the Burn Loot Murder riots just fine but peaceful political rallies inherently dangerous? Betsy wants you to stay on topic. I was already admonished for directly addressing the topic, so just imagine what she'll say to you. Biden won't institute martial law so long as Trumpers accept democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 Martial law doesn't really go well with democracy in my opinion. And clearly Trump supporters aren't the one's that have a problem accepting democracy. The 2016 election was won fairly by the Republican side but to this day it's the Democrats that refuse to accept the results. They are planning to go much further and will likely rig the system to favor their side in future elections. I don't know how Joe Biden personally feels about instituting martial law ,that question should be asked to his puppet masters. Scroll it up on the teleprompter! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 Democrats have never accepted the results of 2016 having done nothing for the last 4 years but try to overturn the results, one way or another. I don't think Biden will enact martial law but would he override the will of the Governors? Well maybe, after he confiscates the guns that is :)- 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 Not sure whatBiden can do that is not already being done. IMO the President does not have the power to order the entire Nation to shut down nor to mandate wearing ofmasks. He/she can help make guidelines and suggestions and economic threats but this all takes time and will produce a lot of court challenges. Declaring Martial Law would be a quick way to get out of office and cause civil unrest. Read more: https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3209483-if-biden-becomes-president-will-he.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, scribblet said: Not sure whatBiden can do that is not already being done. IMO the President does not have the power to order the entire Nation to shut down nor to mandate wearing ofmasks. True....a President Biden would face the same policy backlash as President Trump...defiance...resistance....and hostile criticism from nearly half of the population. Plus Biden needs the Senate and courts to get anything done. Biden is a centrist and political animal first and foremost, so his campaign rhetoric would be tempered by political and economic reality. Obama continued many of the Bush era policies, including tax cuts, TARP, and doubled down on foreign policy with military force. I don't expect the "progressive" agenda to win the day if Biden becomes prez. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 5 hours ago, BubberMiley said: There's no need for martial law, but there is a need for people to grab a brain about supporting candidates who are working to spread China's virus. Trudeau worked to spread the coronavirus and you're ok with that. What Changed Bubber? "It would be racist to block travellers from China, don't wear masks, visitors to the country can walk freely anywhere!" lol. The Dems told people to ride the subway and eat in restaurants like it's no big deal, after Trump had already started fighting the virus. You were ok with that. You have never condemned Cuomo's idiotic action of putting C-19-infected people back into care homes. You were ok with that. When people weren't allowed to visit other people, or hang out in large groups outside you supported the rioting, looting, arson and murders Bubber, in super-spreader groups. What changed? You're just being a mouthy hypocrite Bubber. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 5 hours ago, betsy said: HOW IS BIDEN GOING TO SHUT DOWN THE VIRUS? He doesn't have to. 7,700 Americans died every day in 2019 and 2018 and 2017.... If there was no C19 then 2,340,800 Americans would have died so far in 2020 anyways. Over ten times as many people as C19 is supposed to have killed. Of the 220,000 Americans who 'died of covid' in 2020, the vast majority of them would have died of heart attack or stroke or the regular flu anyways. C19 only gives a nudge to people who are near death. So the short answer is that if Biden wins then all of a sudden the Dems and Liberals and the MSM will start talking about 'higher survival rates' and 'extremely low risks to young, healthy people' and 'low hospitalization rates of people who are no Vit D deficient' and 'the success rates of new treatments' and then POOF! the fear of C19 will be gone and we will all get back to life as normal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 It looks like Biden will have the opportunity to enact martial law if he chooses after the election results. Isn't it strange that imposing martial law may be possible in select cities to fight the Wuhan virus but it would never be considered to use it against the BLM/Antifa riots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) On 11/1/2020 at 6:11 PM, WestCanMan said: Of the 220,000 Americans who 'died of covid' in 2020, the vast majority of them would have died of heart attack or stroke or the regular flu anyways. C19 only gives a nudge to people who are near death. That’s not true at all. Just because someone had underlying health conditions doesn’t mean they were going to die anyway. Since the pandemic the US has experienced 300,000 excess deaths compared to the normal death rate in recent years with most of those (200k) directly attributable to COVID. The 200k doesn’t include people who died indirectly from COVID, (eg people who could not get treatment for some other condition because of healthcare shortages or loss of insurance caused by the pandemic, or people who committed suicide after job loss caused by the pandemic) but those would be counted in the 300k. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm?s_cid=mm6942e2_w Now having said that I think it’s fair to ask how many excess deaths are tolerable There were nearly 3 million deaths in the US from all causes in 2018 (the most recent I could find) so a 10% increase is significant. But most interesting is the way you Trumpsters are hypocritically trying to argue both sides of the issue at the same time: the pandemic is an overblown nothing-burger and no major response is required but also Trump is a COVID hero who has taken the pandemic more seriously and done more to stop it than any human on earth, and has personally saved millions of lives while reckless Democrats have blood on their hands from alleged mismanagement. These two contradictory claims are not compatible with each other and are just another example that Trump supporters will fucking say anything Edited November 5, 2020 by BeaverFever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 11/1/2020 at 3:11 PM, WestCanMan said: Of the 220,000 Americans who 'died of covid' in 2020, the vast majority of them would have died of heart attack or stroke or the regular flu anyways. C19 only gives a nudge to people who are near death. About 45% of Americans have some kind of comorbidity that makes them vulnerable to Covid. If we pretend for a moment that 80% of Americans become infected over a year or even two, that means 118,000,000 people at risk of serious illness. The mortality rate in the US is about 2.5%; that's about 2,970,000 dead. Of the ones who do not die, it's estimated that 10% will suffer long-term effects, whether months or years; that's about 11,880,000 people. This destruction far outpaces that of the seasonal flu, which results in between 12,000 and 60,000 deaths per year. No doubt, as researchers learn more about Covid, death rates will drop as treatment protocols improve and a vaccine is created. But to pretend this is nothing more than a bad flu that only kills old people/already sick people is just stupid. For now, our best defense is to limit the spread as much as possible. By the way, if you are overweight - not obese - just overweight, you are at higher risk of complications and hospitalization from Covid. If you are older, you are at higher risk of complications and hospitalization from Covid. If you are both older and overweight, you have two factors against you. And how many of us on this forum are under 50, and without those few extra pounds that both our Western lifestyle and age provide us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, BeaverFever said: That’s not true at all. Just because someone had underlying health conditions doesn’t mean they were going to die anyway... For the VAST MAJORITY OF CASES we're still talking about people who were going to die somewhere between soon and very soon. If they died in Aug 2020 instead of June 2021 it's not good, but these 'deaths' aren't nearly the same as "iraq war deaths" or drug overdose deaths where 99% of them were 18-30 year olds who were definitely not going to die that year otherwise. Quote But most interesting is the way you Trumpsters are hypocritically trying to argue both sides of the issue at the same time: Trump supporters will fucking say anything This is just proof that you don't have a clue wtf you're talking about, as usual. At the beginning of the outbreak, it was assumed that this could be a very deadly outbreak and Trump treated it as such, while Trudeau and the Dems treated it like an opportunity to virtue-signal about travel bans. Now that we have 8 months worth of data to look at, and successful treatments in place, it's a nothingburger compared to the destruction of the economy. I've made the distinction before about the fact that staying ahead of the outbreak is obviously much better than letting the virus get throughly and then fighting it. Hopefully you can grasp that. Edited November 5, 2020 by WestCanMan excessive quoting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 hours ago, dialamah said: About 45% of Americans have some kind of comorbidity that makes them vulnerable to Covid. 45%, seriously? I know that a lot of Americans are obese but I really really doubt that 45% of Americans have a co-morbidity. Do you mean 45% of people over 75 years old or something? Probably 1/3 of the population is under 18, and they're not even close to 45%. The population between 18 and 45 is probably another 1/3 of the population and they're not close to 45% either. You'd need almost everyone over 45 to have a c-m in order to hit 45%. I don't buy it. Regardless, covid isn't really dangerous for people with 1 co-morbidity unless it's a lung disease or something. Covid is dangerous for elderly people with 2 or more co-morbidities. Quote If we pretend for a moment that 80% of Americans become infected over a year or even two, that means 118,000,000 people at risk of serious illness. The mortality rate in the US is about 2.5%; that's about 2,970,000 dead. Of the ones who do not die, it's estimated that 10% will suffer long-term effects, whether months or years; that's about 11,880,000 people. Why would you estimate 2.5%? AGE DEATH RATE confirmed cases DEATH RATE all cases 80+ years old 21.9% 14.8% 70-79 years old 8.0% 60-69 years old 3.6% 50-59 years old 1.3% 40-49 years old 0.4% 30-39 years old 0.2% 20-29 years old 0.2% 10-19 years old 0.2% 0-9 years old no fatalities Most of this is even old data, from when case fatality rates were higher. Quote This destruction far outpaces that of the seasonal flu, which results in between 12,000 and 60,000 deaths per year. Regular seasonal flu actually kills a lot of children. C19 doesn't do that. IMO the death of one 6 yr old is more tragic than the deaths of 100 octogenarians. Ask an 88 yr old and very few will disagree. Quote to pretend this is nothing more than a bad flu that only kills old people/already sick people is just stupid. For now, our best defense is to limit the spread as much as possible. I didn't say it's just a bad flu, but it's true that it's only a real risk to the people I mentioned earlier. Quote By the way, if you are overweight - not obese - just overweight, you are at higher risk of complications and hospitalization from Covid. If you are older, you are at higher risk of complications and hospitalization from Covid. If you are both older and overweight, you have two factors against you. And how many of us on this forum are under 50, and without those few extra pounds that both our Western lifestyle and age provide us? Getting in a car is a risk. Especially in winter. Are you going to quarantine yourself forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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