Liberals to greatly increase immigration in coming years.

[Minnetonka]

On 11/19/2020 at 2:09 PM, Argus said:

Not you, evidently. There is nothing in Capitalism which says it needs cheap labour to work. The cost of labour is a function of its scarcity. If there aren't enough people to drive taxis or skin fishes then employers have to raise the rates to attract enough. That's how Capitalism works. What employers in Canada do is short-circuit this function of capitalism by importing huge masses of foreign labour who will work cheaply and can be bullied more easily. This allows them to keep pay rates low.

Tell me, have you ever taken even a single economics course?

If Canada was the only country in the world you'd have a point, but there's all those pesky other countries we have to compete with. You'll have to convince all the capitalists in the world, not just in Canada, to stop using cheap labour. For what it's worth, I never took an economics class and I didn't look anything up. It's just obvious, isn't it?

[-TSS-]

Has Canada always accepted immigrants from all over the world or have you had a similar approach to immigration like Australia which up until the 1960's only accepted mainly British and Northern-Europeans to enter their country? 

[Marocc]

1 hour ago, -TSS- said:

Has Canada always accepted immigrants from all over the world or have you had a similar approach to immigration like Australia which up until the 1960's only accepted mainly British and Northern-Europeans to enter their country? 

It started with immigrants accepting themselves..

[Argus]

19 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

TFWs make minimum wage (less in some circumstances, way less in a few), they pay their taxes and living expenses then send the rest home, how does that help our economy? 

Something we rarely hear about. Yes, they live on the smallest amount they can, sometimes a dozen in one apartment, and send the rest home. Immigrants tend to send a lot home too.

19 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

A side note... If we need to import so much foreign talent, ambition and money what does that tell us about how we are raising the next generation worker? To me it seems we are not doing a very good job, we should be ashamed of ourselves. What is so bad about starting at the bottom and working up? 

The fact that two thirds of graduating software engineers leave the country says enough about the next generation. They're smart enough to not get screwed by the low wages and high taxes here when they pay so much more down south.

19 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Another thought... If a hamburger at McDonald's costs twenty bucks is that really a bad thing? We are constantly told fast food is bad for us maybe that would make it a luxury we can only afford on special occasions.

If the prices rise for fast food there will be fewer fast food outlets. I don't see how society suffers from that. The people who want fast food can still get it, provided they want it badly enough to pay the higher prices. The rest will find something else to spend money on. Probably something better.

[Argus]

19 hours ago, Minnetonka said:

If Canada was the only country in the world you'd have a point, but there's all those pesky other countries we have to compete with. You'll have to convince all the capitalists in the world, not just in Canada, to stop using cheap labour. For what it's worth, I never took an economics class and I didn't look anything up. It's just obvious, isn't it?

It's obvious that you don't know anything about economics, yes. For starters 75% of our economy and 78% of jobs are in the service sector. So much of this does not face competition from low wage countries - unless we import the people from low wage countries here to compete with our workers. The fact you can get fast food at McDonalds much cheaper in Indonesia or Egypt is irrelevant to the success of the McDonalds here. You can get cheaper haircuts in Beirut than Toronto, and cheaper laundry in Ukraine than Vancouver. Doesn't matter. I could find a cheaper accountant in Thailand, but I doubt he's as conversant with Canadian taxes as the one here in town. And I can't exactly have the guy from India come over to fix my computer. You can outsource some IT stuff, but clearly a lot has to be here or we wouldn't be bringing in all these IT workers from India and the like. And the US, with its much higher salaries for IT workers, still thrives.

If we were to match labour costs with the world we'd be poor, just like the third world. Yes, the cost of living would plummet, but so would our standard of living. I don't particularly want to live in a third world country, thanks.

[Argus]

18 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Has Canada always accepted immigrants from all over the world or have you had a similar approach to immigration like Australia which up until the 1960's only accepted mainly British and Northern-Europeans to enter their country? 

Yes, much like Australia. Although we took a lot of people from eastern and southern Europe too. We started opening the doors to the third world in the late 60s, which gave us violent street gangs from Jamaica. Then in the 1980s a crooked prime minister named Mulroney figured immigrants would vote for him out of gratitude (and ignorance) so he tripled immigration and made it faster for them to get citizenship. Ever since then our immigration system has been almost entirely driven by the needs of politicians not the country. I mean, Trudeau doubled the number of old immigrants allowed to come in just before the next to last election, then doubled it again last election. And he did this while solemnly telling the country we needed mass immigration because of our aging population.

And the progressive media listened and nodded and said "Yup. Makes sense to us."

[marcus]

The reality is that research after research shows that immigrants have a positive impact on Canada. 

When you look at education and compare children of immigrants vs children of Canadian-born parents, this is what we get:

Immigrants play an important role in bridging gaps in the labour market, both short and long-term.  Statistics now confirm that the children of immigrants outperform children from Canadian-born parents in educational attainment thus adding another important benefit that immigrants bring to Canada.

These findings are outlined in a Statistics Canada paper entitled ‘Educational and Labour Market Outcomes of Assessing the Impact of Immigrant Children on Canada Childhood Immigrants by Admission Class’ and reveals that children of immigrants graduate high school at a rate of 91.6 per cent, against 88.8 per cent of children who are third
generation or more.

At university, the gap increases, with 35.9 immigrant children graduating against 24.4 per cent from the established Canadian group.

In educational terms, third generation Canadians are also bettered by every class of refugee in both the high school and university graduation categories.

Only when it comes to average earnings does the third-generation Canadian group rank on top, at $46,100 compared to $42,900 for immigrants.

Link

[Argus]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

The reality is that research after research shows that immigrants have a positive impact on Canada. 

And yet, startlingly, you can't show us any! We're just supposed to take your word for it. You cherry pick specific bits of information like 'immigrant children vs third generation Canadian born children' as if this is some startling proof of anything at all. But where is the evidence to support your statement about immigrants and their positive impact? Presumably that would be on our culture and economy. They've certainly had a 'positive' impact on the violent crime rate, but I see no evidence of anything else.

 

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

2 hours ago, marcus said:

The reality is that research after research shows that immigrants have a positive impact on Canada. 

When you look at education and compare children of immigrants vs children of Canadian-born parents, this is what we get:

Immigrants play an important role in bridging gaps in the labour market, both short and long-term.  Statistics now confirm that the children of immigrants outperform children from Canadian-born parents in educational attainment thus adding another important benefit that immigrants bring to Canada.

These findings are outlined in a Statistics Canada paper entitled ‘Educational and Labour Market Outcomes of Assessing the Impact of Immigrant Children on Canada Childhood Immigrants by Admission Class’ and reveals that children of immigrants graduate high school at a rate of 91.6 per cent, against 88.8 per cent of children who are third
generation or more.

At university, the gap increases, with 35.9 immigrant children graduating against 24.4 per cent from the established Canadian group.

In educational terms, third generation Canadians are also bettered by every class of refugee in both the high school and university graduation categories.

Only when it comes to average earnings does the third-generation Canadian group rank on top, at $46,100 compared to $42,900 for immigrants.

Link

In other words Canadians are raising children to work under immigrant children, interesting. Then Argus says our best and brightest are headed south. This is good for Canada? 

You are another that believes Canadians have no talent and no ambition, we need to import it, that really is sad. 

 

[Army Guy]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:00 PM, cannuck said:

Couple of comments:  "lack of GOVERNMENT funding for business"?!?!?!   Surely, you have to be kidding.  Government has no business sticking its nose anywhere near business.  And business has no business sucking up government frigging welfare.  MARKETS choose winners and losers, not bureaucrats.

First generation newly arrived might leave, but they might stay.  In my experience, you can't really expect them to do much adapting, but similarly, many second generation immigrants seem to be motivated by their parents to become very successful.  Of course, when success if measured by being a better gangster or drug dealer, Canada doesn't exactly win (courtesy of more than just Sunny Ways immigration free-for-all) but choosing the right immigrants can indeed be a good thing.   Just not a half million a year of them!!!

Both federal and provincial have extensive programs for small and larger business, ie tax breaks, grants or low interest rate loans, and the list goes on. I think every special interest group is represented in there some where. In the Maritimes any employment is welcome by the provincial government and most times they are willing to invest in it. it is however almost impossible to attract any serious large industry here... That being said I'm sure at some point there will be investment into more immigrant business. 

Very few are deciding to stay, most are out of here in 5 years or so, moving on for better opportunities, shit most of the province has moved out at some point in time, at one time most Albertans were from the Maritimes .. 

 

[taxme]

On 11/16/2020 at 11:05 PM, marcus said:

Don't you think this is beautiful?

link

The millions of taxpayer's of all other ethnic groups in this country have also delivered tens of millions of their tax dollars and donations to help in the relief efforts for the people of Fort McMurray. Why are you singling out this group? Are you trying to promote something here? Just asking? 

[marcus]

13 minutes ago, taxme said:

The millions of taxpayer's of all other ethnic groups in this country have also delivered tens of millions of their tax dollars and donations to help in the relief efforts for the people of Fort McMurray. Why are you singling out this group? Are you trying to promote something here? Just asking? 

I am trying to balance out your constant negativity towards immigrants.

 

[marcus]

17 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

In other words Canadians are raising children to work under immigrant children, interesting. Then Argus says our best and brightest are headed south. This is good for Canada? 

You are another that believes Canadians have no talent and no ambition, we need to import it, that really is sad. 

 

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. You sound very defensive.

I am trying to respond to the negativity and flat out misinformation that some here are spewing in regards to immigrants.

As a whole, immigrants are good for Canada.

[taxme]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

I am trying to balance out your constant negativity towards immigrants.

 

But I have never said that I am against immigrants nor have I ever shown any negativity towards new immigrants. So just where do you get this bull chit from? Show me where I have said this or quit with the bull crap?

Come on, show me now? I await your reply.  

[Infidel Dog]

On 11/22/2020 at 3:20 PM, marcus said:

The reality is that research after research shows that immigrants have a positive impact on Canada. 

When you look at education and compare children of immigrants vs children of Canadian-born parents, this is what we get:

Link

Your "study" is dated 2016.

A little bit has happened since then. For example, there's this from 2018:

Quote

“In terms of illegal immigration, we have seen this problem grow for the past few years. We all remember Justin Trudeau’s famous tweet where he couldn’t resist jumping in on Twitter and tweeting out all are welcome,” Scheer said Friday at a town hall in suburban Vancouver held by the Surrey Board of Trade.

“Well, people have taken him up on his word. The problem is that that damages the integrity of our immigration system and people who are trying to come to Canada the right way are now having to wait longer,” he said to applause from members of the audience.

In January 2017, Trudeau posted on Twitter: “To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada.”

Also you seem to be saying if some immigration is good more immigration is better. Or do I misunderstand you there? Where do you stand on this for example:

Quote

When we add together permanent residents, temporary workers, foreign students and other long-term visitors, Canada will welcome roughly three-quarters of a million people into our country each year.

That’s more than 2% of our total population.

Do you have two thumbs up and a bevy of studies showing us how that can only lead to wonderful things.

Do you have any more recent "studies" to regale us with showing how the people of France and Sweden are enjoying open borders? Because I heard they weren't.

I'm glad to hear you suggesting you're a big fan of hearing both sides of the issue. Here's an Op-Ed from the Toronto Sun you should be interested in. Also from 2018:

Trudeau's immigration numbers boost poses many challenges

BTW...ever heard of Roxham Road? Where do you stand on Border Jumpers? 10s of thousands of border jumpers. Not even the pandemic has stopped them. Anything about this by-product of a more lenient immigration policy in your "studies."

Edited November 24, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Argus]

3 hours ago, marcus said:

As a whole, immigrants are good for Canada.

Well, they're good for you. Your job depends on mass immigration.

[cannuck]

10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Both federal and provincial have extensive programs for small and larger business, ie tax breaks, grants or low interest rate loans, and the list goes on. I think every special interest group is represented in there some where. In the Maritimes any employment is welcome by the provincial government and most times they are willing to invest in it. it is however almost impossible to attract any serious large industry here... That being said I'm sure at some point there will be investment into more immigrant business.

Business that wastes its time chasing government money isn't business, it is just another version of looking for and depending on handouts.  You have also made the same mistake as does virtually every politician and ec-dev officer: that large business create jobs.   They seldom do.  The largest segment of the economy that creates new employment (vs. moving jobs from one big handout place to another - as this is what most big biz will do) is small business.  IMHO, one of the reasons that the maritimes have such weak economies is that people have been trained like monkeys to turn to the most incompetent and ill intended source possible for opportunity - government.   It is not the solution to any problem - it is the source.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, marcus said:

I am trying to balance out your constant negativity towards immigrants.

 

You got this my brother...

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

17 hours ago, marcus said:

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. You sound very defensive.

I am trying to respond to the negativity and flat out misinformation that some here are spewing in regards to immigrants.

As a whole, immigrants are good for Canada.

By showing us we are raising entitled Canadians with substandard abilities and values... 

[dialamah]

On 11/22/2020 at 6:15 PM, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

In other words Canadians are raising children to work under immigrant children, interesting.

Second generation immigrants are Canadians, too.  We've always raised children to work under other people's children; there's nothing at all unusual about that. 

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Second generation immigrants are Canadians, too.  We've always raised children to work under other people's children; there's nothing at all unusual about that. 

My point is we have everything we need, immigration should not be a requirement to make Canada work. Canada is far too dependent on foreign input. We don't need to import talent and ambition, we already have it if we nourish and encourage it. 

[dialamah]

36 minutes ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

My point is we have everything we need, immigration should not be a requirement to make Canada work. Canada is far too dependent on foreign input. We don't need to import talent and ambition, we already have it if we nourish and encourage it. 

That includes the children, born or raised in Canada, that you othered by saying that Canadian children are being raised to work under immigrant children. 

When stats tell us that X percentage of Canadians in an industry move to another country for better pay, they don't mention how many are from immigrant parents.  A Singh is the same as a Smith in those stats.  Its only people like you and Argus who assume that its the "Smiths" who leave, while the "Singhs" remain in Canada.

Edited November 24, 2020 by dialamah

[cannuck]

21 hours ago, marcus said:

As a whole, immigrants are good for Canada.

I am glad to see you phrase it that way.   As someone with a vested interest in immigration overall and more immigration in particular, it is vital that you, your industry and the idiotic enablers within government understand that we who actually PAY the bills and suffer the consequences of the gaping holes in immigration systems are NOT happy with just immigration for the sake of the political and economic gain of "the system".  I can agree that SOME immigration is beneficial (usually in the second generation) but a significant part of immigration today enables totally unqualified, ill fitting and UNWANTED (by anyone outside of the Sunny Ways camp) people to enter unchallenged.  Not all cultures are a good fit here, but there is very little recognition and absolutely no attempt to respect that fact.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

When stats tell us that X percentage of Canadians in an industry move to another country for better pay, they don't mention how many are from immigrant parents.  A Singh is the same as a Smith in those stats.  Its only people like you and Argus who assume that its the "Smiths" who leave, while the "Singhs" remain in Canada.

Would you care to demonstrate where I did that? You continually make these statements you pluck from between the cheeks of your fat ass and they never have support. All I said was how ridiculous it was that we spend so much money teaching kids and then massive numbers of them go south. Meanwhile, shitty Canadian businesses can keep wages low by importing masses of desperate foreigners to do the work cheap. I at no time stated or suggested the race of anyone involved.

[dialamah]

33 minutes ago, Argus said:

Would you care to demonstrate where I did that? You continually make these statements you pluck from between the cheeks of your fat ass and they never have support. All I said was how ridiculous it was that we spend so much money teaching kids and then massive numbers of them go south. Meanwhile, shitty Canadian businesses can keep wages low by importing masses of desperate foreigners to do the work cheap. I at no time stated or suggested the race of anyone involved.

Virtually everything you write about immigrants is full of assumptions about how they're lazy, desperate, criminal, opportunistic, cheaters, yada yada yada.  Your own words define you. 

And the insults you use against women reveal your core misogyny.