Canada now has the largest deficit on earth - and it's still rising.

[Argus]

Yes, I know, every country has gone into deficit to combat covid. But no country has been as profligate as Canada in spewing borrowed money across the land with firehoses, with virtually no assessment of the value of that money. And when the opposition tries to investigate the government threatens an election.

The International Monetary Fund released its semi-annual Fiscal Monitor report last week. No surprise: it projects bigger deficits for all countries for 2020.

What is surprising is that Canada will have the distinction of running the largest deficit among all countries — advanced, emerging and developing — at 19.9 per cent of GDP. This even “trumps” the United States, which has the second highest forecast deficit at 18.7 per cent. And it’s almost double the average deficit for Euro area countries (10.1 per cent of GDP).

Here’s another kicker. Spending by all levels of government in Canada is projected to hit 57.3 per cent of GDP in 2020. That’s more than at any time in our history, including both world wars. Despite the big U.S. deficit, Americans will be spending only 47.2 per cent of GDP, fully 10 points less than us. Canadian governments are projected to spend more than Sweden (53.3 per cent of GDP), Germany (53.9 per cent) and the EU in general (55.7 per cent), reversing a long-standing tradition in which our fiscal policies stood between Europe’s and our American neighbours’.

https://financialpost.com/opinion/jack-m-mintz-in-government-spending-and-deficits-were-now-no-1-in-the-world

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, Ontario was already in deep doo-doo even before the pandemic..being the world's largest sub-sovereign debtor at more than $300 billion and growing.    And the kicker is that for all this added debt in Canada, many capital, defence, and infrastructure needs will still go lacking.

At least the Americans and several other nations are getting more stuff for their spending...more defence procurement, space exploration, R&D, electric vehicle production, fossil fuels and renewables, and healthcare without long wait listing.

Canada has a skinny federal government, deferring much to the provinces, so such large federal deficits are that much more remarkable.

[Guest]

Looks like taxes need to go up...

[Argus]

13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Looks like taxes need to go up...

I think you can count on that, but not until Trudeau succeeds in finding justification for an election and he wins a majority.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Argus said:

I think you can count on that, but not until Trudeau succeeds in finding justification for an election and he wins a majority.

If he were to raise taxes once the pandemic is over, would the NDP not support him?

Hell, who would be against it?  I'm hoping for a sales tax in Alberta.

 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

If he were to raise taxes once the pandemic is over, would the NDP not support him?

Hell, who would be against it?  I'm hoping for a sales tax in Alberta.

 

A lot of people would be opposed. Which is why the Liberals will wait until after an election. I didn't mean to suggest the NDP would vote against tax increases, for of course they wouldn't. I meant Trudeau and his Liberals have been doing their best to suggest huge deficits have no downside, and that he wouldn't increase taxes or cut programs. He wants to wait until he's safely in a new, full term with a majority before raising taxes. This is not going to be a minor increase and it's going to piss off a lot of people.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

A lot of people would be opposed. Which is why the Liberals will wait until after an election. I didn't mean to suggest the NDP would vote against tax increases, for of course they wouldn't. I meant Trudeau and his Liberals have been doing their best to suggest huge deficits have no downside, and that he wouldn't increase taxes or cut programs. He wants to wait until he's safely in a new, full term with a majority before raising taxes. This is not going to be a minor increase and it's going to piss off a lot of people.

I would support it. 

Of course, once the money rolled in they would probably find a way to waste it instead of paying down the deficit rang up since COVID struck, so then I would be all pissed off again.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

A lot of people would be opposed. Which is why the Liberals will wait until after an election. I didn't mean to suggest the NDP would vote against tax increases, for of course they wouldn't. I meant Trudeau and his Liberals have been doing their best to suggest huge deficits have no downside, and that he wouldn't increase taxes or cut programs. He wants to wait until he's safely in a new, full term with a majority before raising taxes. This is not going to be a minor increase and it's going to piss off a lot of people.

You mean Cons and Block,are going to be opposed .... liberals are going to be dancing in the streets, Boy Justin can do no wrong, I'm waiting for all those that were receiving their Covid checks to see their faces once they get their tax bills....

[WestCanMan]

On 10/22/2020 at 6:17 PM, Argus said:

Yes, I know, every country has gone into deficit to combat covid. But no country has been as profligate as Canada in spewing borrowed money across the land with firehoses, with virtually no assessment of the value of that money. And when the opposition tries to investigate the government threatens an election.

The International Monetary Fund released its semi-annual Fiscal Monitor report last week. No surprise: it projects bigger deficits for all countries for 2020.

What is surprising is that Canada will have the distinction of running the largest deficit among all countries — advanced, emerging and developing — at 19.9 per cent of GDP. This even “trumps” the United States, which has the second highest forecast deficit at 18.7 per cent. And it’s almost double the average deficit for Euro area countries (10.1 per cent of GDP).

This is like a campaign ad for the Liberals. "Mo' debt, mo' votes."

[cannuck]

With the Little Tur...um....I meant TRUdeau spending like not a drunken sailor, but an entire drunken navy, I wonder where our Federal debt/GDP is now?  Similarly, add in provinces and municipal government debt, and where does that put us?   Finally: personal borrowing due to near free money is also over 100% GDP, but during (and later after) the pandemic, wonder where we will be?

Amazing that no politician seems to have either the brains or balls to address one of the key problems with the Canadian economy.   Gee, it seems they can't address ANY of the problems our economy has.   Really shakes your confidence in our elected representatives, doesn't it?

[Army Guy]

On what though, we have spent all these bils and what do we have to show for it, less than 1/2 of the 300 plus bil has been handed out to individuals and businesses , so where did the other half go ? maybe one of the liberals on this board can walk us through it... oh wait they don't want to talk about it... During the pandemic the Australia government not only handled pandemic spending Way better than we did , but also pledged to spend 340 bil on their military over the next 10 years... mean while we still have northern communities with out clean drinking water " for over 25 years", our health care system which we brag so much about is begging for cash... lets not even mention our security depts that have been starved to death for cash... if we are going to spend it like debt meant nothing could we atleast put some into education, etc....  

[DFCaper]

We are #1!!

"Canada will have the distinction of running the largest deficit among all countries — advanced, emerging and developing — at 19.9 per cent of GDP. This even “trumps” the United States, which has the second highest forecast deficit at 18.7 per cent. And it’s almost double the average deficit for Euro area countries (10.1 per cent of GDP)."

https://financialpost.com/opinion/jack-m-mintz-in-government-spending-and-deficits-were-now-no-1-in-the-world

[cannuck]

5 hours ago, DFCaper said:

We are #1!!"

That's what I was suspecting and afraid of.   It should be headline news every day, pointing out who did this and why - not to mention questioning how the hell we (or more to the point or grandchildren, great grands, etc.) are supposed to pay it.

[cannuck]

Argus: did not see your thread so posted the question of what our debt/GDP looks like in "business and economy".  I think you can imagine my attitude to piddling away hundreds of billions essentially to try to buy votes as the Libs do in the maritimes and 905.

[Charles Anthony]

The threads are now merged. 

[cannuck]

Thanks, Charles.

[Argus]

16 hours ago, cannuck said:

Argus: did not see your thread so posted the question of what our debt/GDP looks like in "business and economy".  I think you can imagine my attitude to piddling away hundreds of billions essentially to try to buy votes as the Libs do in the maritimes and 905.

Unfortunately, it works. Canadians have shown time and again their votes are for sale and they care nothing for how the money gets to them, where it comes from, or how it might eventually be paid back. This is especially so for the nearly 50% of Canadians who pay no income tax anyway. When taxes are raised, and they will be, they're confident it won't be on them. And they're likely correct. The GST might be increased to what it was before Harper lowered it, but that will just increase the size of their compensation cheques.

[cannuck]

Notice how more than 2  billion in bribe money brings total silence on this matter from the media.

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

Unfortunately, it works. Canadians have shown time and again their votes are for sale and they care nothing for how the money gets to them, where it comes from, or how it might eventually be paid back. This is especially so for the nearly 50% of Canadians who pay no income tax anyway. When taxes are raised, and they will be, they're confident it won't be on them. And they're likely correct. The GST might be increased to what it was before Harper lowered it, but that will just increase the size of their compensation cheques.

What else would drive you to vote liberal, not their transparency as promised, not their honesty as promised, not keeping their campaign promises, not being accountable for anything, ethics breaches, breaking the law, Paying off friends under the disguise of keeping jobs or playing favorites in is riding....Maybe it is his divisive policies....maybe it's just come down to the liberals not having the same moral values as the rest of us...

[cougar]

We did have this same thread already and it went full circle.

Why start it again?  Unhappy with how it went last time?

Edited October 30, 2020 by cougar

[oops]

Is Justin trying to out Trudeau daddy? Under Pierre Elliot Tru(dough is for burning) Canada's debt rose by 738%. It now looks like Justin Tru(die tomorrow go broke today) is trying to break that record. With 0ver 300 billion in borrowing so far in 2020, while encouraging his provincial counterparts to disable the revenue producers he might make it to number 1.

[myata]

Recently somewhere on CBC I came across a revolutionary insight, to simply forget about the deficits. This country's bureaucracy is never short of ideas. Think how many problems it would solve (and for how long).

[Argus]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Recently somewhere on CBC I came across a revolutionary insight, to simply forget about the deficits. This country's bureaucracy is never short of ideas. Think how many problems it would solve (and for how long).

It would not solve any problems. It would throw our financial system into chaos. A ton of that money is owed through bonds to pension funds which would become immediately insolvent. Other major holders are banks, insurance companies, investment funds managing Canadians' retirement portfolios etc. You going to tell all those old people we're not going to be paying them the interest on the debt we owe them any more - or the principle?

A chunk is owed to foreigners. They're not going to be very happy at all, and neither are their governments. Which is gonna make it almost impossible to get any future loans or investment.

[Right To Left]

On 10/22/2020 at 9:17 PM, Argus said:

Yes, I know, every country has gone into deficit to combat covid. But no country has been as profligate as Canada in spewing borrowed money across the land with firehoses, with virtually no assessment of the value of that money. And when the opposition tries to investigate the government threatens an election.

The International Monetary Fund released its semi-annual Fiscal Monitor report last week. No surprise: it projects bigger deficits for all countries for 2020.

What is surprising is that Canada will have the distinction of running the largest deficit among all countries — advanced, emerging and developing — at 19.9 per cent of GDP. This even “trumps” the United States, which has the second highest forecast deficit at 18.7 per cent. And it’s almost double the average deficit for Euro area countries (10.1 per cent of GDP).

Here’s another kicker. Spending by all levels of government in Canada is projected to hit 57.3 per cent of GDP in 2020. That’s more than at any time in our history, including both world wars. Despite the big U.S. deficit, Americans will be spending only 47.2 per cent of GDP, fully 10 points less than us. Canadian governments are projected to spend more than Sweden (53.3 per cent of GDP), Germany (53.9 per cent) and the EU in general (55.7 per cent), reversing a long-standing tradition in which our fiscal policies stood between Europe’s and our American neighbours’.

https://financialpost.com/opinion/jack-m-mintz-in-government-spending-and-deficits-were-now-no-1-in-the-world

Fortunate for us that the rest of the world - especially the US now, are in ruinous levels of debt that can't be paid off either. When everyone's doing it, where is the growing army of billionaires going to put their money when every fiat currency is inflating itself to ruin? Maybe things would be better if Covid relief didn't start at the top and trickle down on us! 

Pay people who work for a living to stay home if their jobs and workplaces can be closed during a pandemic; cover the costs of closing small businesses also, but how many big corporations have beat everyone to the trough (especially in the US) before millions of working people got a few scraps were left! And some people wonder why there's a dangerous left to rightwing divide now, and people are rioting in the streets! And have to make up stories about Russians or Chinese and others being the culprits, rather than corruption and failing centrist economic policies.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Fortunate for us that the rest of the world - especially the US now,

 

Ontario had the most sub-sovereign debt per capita even before the pandemic.   The US doesn't worry about that.