Canada & the US Civil War

[August1991]

Why did Canada not find a way to avoid/stop the US civil war in 1861?

Edited August 13, 2020 by August1991

[Moonlight Graham]

Because why would they care, and what could they do?

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada was still British North America (BNA) and thousands actually joined in the war, mostly for the Union side.   Confederate sympathies and safe harbour was also found in Canada.   Economic interests in Canada favoured exports for war materials, and quickly led to Canada's confederation in 1867.

Ultimately..."what happens in the U.S. affects us"....to this very day.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Economic interests in Canada favoured exports for war materials, and quickly led to Canada's confederation in 1867.

Ultimately..."what happens in the U.S. affects us"....to this very day.

In 1812 the US attacked BNA.  The US went to war with Mexico and annexed Texas about 20 years before the US civil war.  After the civil war ended the northern US had a big standing army of trained soldiers with nothing to do.  The US bought Alaska in 1867 three months before Confederation, not a coincidence.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

In 1812 the US attacked BNA.  The US went to war with Mexico and annexed Texas about 20 years before the US civil war.  After the civil war ended the northern US had a big standing army of trained soldiers with nothing to do.  The US bought Alaska in 1867 three months before Confederation, not a coincidence.

 

Again, the American (and Russian) concern was about British Empire expansion in North America...the U.S. could expand from coast to coast without British interference.

The U.S. Civil War was directly related to Union expansion with free and slave states, a legacy from British colonial rule.

[Cannucklehead]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Again, the American (and Russian) concern was about British Empire expansion in North America...the U.S. could expand from coast to coast without British interference.

The U.S. Civil War was directly related to Union expansion with free and slave states, a legacy from British colonial rule.

Which the u.s. continued up to the war even long after slavery was abolished in the u.k., including the "bloodhound bill"

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

30 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Which the u.s. continued up to the war even long after slavery was abolished in the u.k., including the "bloodhound bill"

 

 

Slavery was not totally banned in the British Empire...there were still colonies that could not survive economically without it.

Even before the U.S. Civil War, the Americans put the European imperialists (Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, etc.) on notice that the age of colonialism in the Americas was over and there was a new sheriff in town (Monroe Doctrine).    Britain had already lost America in the late 18th century, and the rest would follow, including Canada, first as a dominion.

The U.S. Civil War was a derivative of this ongoing process.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Cannucklehead]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Slavery was not totally banned in the British Empire...there were still colonies that could not survive economically without it.

Even before the U.S. Civil War, the Americans put the European imperialists (Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, etc.) on notice that the age of colonialism in the Americas was over and there was a new sheriff in town (Monroe Doctrine).    Britain had already lost America in the late 18th century, and the rest would follow, including Canada, first as a dominion.

The U.S. Civil War was a derivative of this ongoing process.

 

Slavery was abolished in 1834 in the u.k., 16 years before the "bloodhound bill" and 31 years before it was abolished in the u.s.  

The u.s. civil war was only a part of the several reasons for Canadian confederation.  

[Argus]

11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Even before the U.S. Civil War, the Americans put the European imperialists (Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, etc.) on notice that the age of colonialism in the Americas was over and there was a new sheriff in town (Monroe Doctrine). 

LOL. A corrupt, crooked, vicious sheriff who intended to do whatever it took to keep the natives in line and exploit their resources.

Don't make it sound like it was the US protecting the Americas from the cruel Euros.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

LOL. A corrupt, crooked, vicious sheriff who intended to do whatever it took to keep the natives in line and exploit their resources.

Don't make it sound like it was the US protecting the Americas from the cruel Euros.

 

About 30,000 Native Americans fought in the Civil War, mostly for the Union...same as those BNA "Canadians" who fought in the war.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

About 30,000 Native Americans fought in the Civil War, mostly for the Union...same as those BNA "Canadians" who fought in the war.

As utterly irrelevant to what I said as any reply I've yet read here.

[bush_cheney2004]

21 minutes ago, Argus said:

As utterly irrelevant to what I said as any reply I've yet read here.

 

Totally relevant...many different groups fought in the U.S. Civil War for their own reasons.    That includes Native Americans who were so hard done by U.S. domestic policies for "aboriginals" (that's the Canadian term).

[Argus]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Totally relevant...many different groups fought in the U.S. Civil War for their own reasons.    That includes Native Americans who were so hard done by U.S. domestic policies for "aboriginals" (that's the Canadian term).

Nobody gives a crap about your civil war. The discussion was on European colonialism in the Americas and the Monroe Doctrine.

[bush_cheney2004]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

Nobody gives a crap about your civil war. The discussion was on European colonialism in the Americas and the Monroe Doctrine.

 

Somebody does....how else did this topic get started ?

The European imperialists (notably Britain, France, and Spain) still played a role in and influenced the outcome of the U.S. Civil War.

[August1991]

On 8/13/2020 at 12:46 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

Because why would they care, and what could they do?

We Canadians did nothing while people nearby killed each other.

[August1991]

On 8/13/2020 at 2:15 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada was still British North America (BNA) and thousands actually joined in the war, mostly for the Union side.   Confederate sympathies and safe harbour was also found in Canada.   Economic interests in Canada favoured exports for war materials, and quickly led to Canada's confederation in 1867.

Ultimately..."what happens in the U.S. affects us"....to this very day.

 

 

Thousands? Most Canadians did nothing. The family of Jefferson Davies moved to Canada. I think his mother is buried here.

=====

In 1939, Swedes stood by while Germans invaded Poland.

In 1640, the Swedes intervened. They stopped the fighting.

In 1861, we Canadians stood by and watched as Americans killed each other. We did nothing.

Edited August 15, 2020 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Thousands? Most Canadians did nothing. The family of Jefferson Davies moved to Canada. I think his mother is buried here.

 

Yes...thousands..including thousands of dead Canadians.

 

Quote

Canada unveils its first US Civil War monument

The monument in Cornwall, Ontario, was championed by a Civil War re-enactment group who raised almost almost C$44,000 ($36,000, £27,000) to build it.

About 7,000 Canadians died in the war, which claimed almost 620,000 US lives.

Although Canada was part of Britain until 1867 and officially neutral, Canadians fought on both sides.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41310587

 

[August1991]

B-C, I didn't know that.

It's a very interesting twist on North American history.

======

I was in north Europe in the 1990s, when Serbs were fighting Croats. Norwegians/French/Germans, they all ignored the fighting. Not their problem.

I said to them, we North Americans are different, if South Dakota attacked North Dakota, I think people in Manitoba would intervene. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, August1991 said:

B-C, I didn't know that.

It's a very interesting twist on North American history. 

 

 

Agreed...the U.S. Civil War made for some strange alliances and bedfellows.

Few today would believe that some BNA Canadians actually fought for the Confederacy (slavery), let alone the Union.

[August1991]

15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...the U.S. Civil War made for some strange alliances and bedfellows.

Few today would believe that some BNA Canadians actually fought for the Confederacy (slavery), let alone the Union.

In more than two centuries, you've only had one violent war that lasted for 3 years.

In your timeframe alone, Europe has had several violent wars.

=====

People say that Europeans are civilised/sophisticated. You Americans are civilised. It is Europeans who are violent. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by August1991

[jbg]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:42 PM, August1991 said:

Why did Canada not find a way to avoid/stop the US civil war in 1861?

1) Canada had "responsible government" and not dominion status. That would wait until July 1, 1867; and

2) One of the reasons Britain was eager to declare Canada independent was the willingness of Canadian companies to trade with a renegade republic, the Confederacy.

[August1991]

From 1616-36, Europeans fought one another.

From 1789-1815, they once again killed each other.

Then, from 1914-1945, they once again had wars and killed each other.

It seems that Europeans, every century or so, start fighting each other.  Maybe once European great-grandchildren forget about what their elders say, they start another war.

What a continent!

======

And yet [sarcasm] "progressive" people in America say that Europe is civilised - while middle America is not.

Edited August 17, 2020 by August1991

[Cannucklehead]

2 hours ago, August1991 said:

From 1616-36, Europeans fought one another.

From 1789-1815, they once again killed each other.

Then, from 1914-1945, they once again had wars and killed each other.

It seems that Europeans, every century or so, start fighting each other.  Maybe once European great-grandchildren forget about what their elders say, they start another war.

What a continent!

======

And yet [sarcasm] "progressive" people in America say that Europe is civilised - while middle America is not.

The top countries involved in wars:

 

• 1/9 1 - Uganda. EPA.
• 2/9 2 - United States of America. Getty.
• 3/9 3 - Rwanda. Getty Images.
• 4/9 4 - United Kingdom. Getty Images.
• 5/9 5 - Estonia. Getty.
• 6/9 6 - France. AFP\Getty.
• 7/9 7 - Australia.
• 8/9 8 - Chad. AP.

U.s. civil War is just a footnote.  

Edited August 17, 2020 by Cannucklehead

[August1991]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:37 AM, Cannucklehead said:

The top countries involved in wars:

 

• 1/9 1 - Uganda. EPA.
• 2/9 2 - United States of America. Getty.
• 3/9 3 - Rwanda. Getty Images.
• 4/9 4 - United Kingdom. Getty Images.
• 5/9 5 - Estonia. Getty.
• 6/9 6 - France. AFP\Getty.
• 7/9 7 - Australia.
• 8/9 8 - Chad. AP.

U.s. civil War is just a footnote.  

Getty Images? Whatever.

Humans, like raccoons, spiders and fish, can be violent. But European humans seem particularly violent. After every 5th or 6th generation, they have an extremely violent conflict where they kill each other. Maybe it's the water in the Rhine or Rhone or something. Whatever it is, it's not civilized and anyone who thinks that Europeans are civilized has been conned.

 

[taxme]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:42 PM, August1991 said:

Why did Canada not find a way to avoid/stop the US civil war in 1861?

Who cares what happened hundreds of years ago? Will it change things that are going on in Canada today in any way? No, it will not. Just saying.