Universities, from merit to mediocrity

[WestCanMan]

21 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

*Critical thinking is not a priority in universities anymore, professors in social science classes main priority is not to teach but to discredit our Western Civilization.

Thoughts ? 

Of course they're not encouraging critical thinking, they're trying to get people to just drink stupidity from CNN's firehose.

I used to lie to my kids when they knew better just so that they'd correct me, or I'd play devil's advocate with them, just to get them into the habit of sticking to their guns and questioning what they hear from anyone and everyone. They didn't need to learn critical thinking in university. Their minds are their own. 

The eldest graduated without succumbing to leftist idolatry at all (she doesn't listen to me either lol) and the middle child is still a conservative after 2 years there. That one's also been a vegetarian since the end of grade 8, she has too much willpower to be broken by some dipshit CNN junkie. 

I don't fear sending my son there either, he'll be too interested in baseball and girls to take an interest in politics there. And he's a sciences guy. He won't really cross paths with any alt-left profs. 

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If harmful thinking is the disease then you fight back against harmful thinking.  Or we can just let it take over everything as you seem cool with.

Universities are about discovering knowledge.  

And yet you refer to ideas as diseases.  And I'm supposed to be the one siding against free speech.

[Independent1986]

14 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

And he's a sciences guy. He won't really cross paths with any alt-left profs. 

Who knows, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz or Isaac Newton's material might be soon declared unfit to be taught.

Is their privilige that made then invent calculus and derivates amongst other things. Maybe we can start a debate about that and analyze it how we can make people comfortable ?

Is shocking what some of these communists have done in one generation.

The level of suspicion between the masses, turning family against family, going after traditions and customs, it is a game that has been played for hundreds and hundreds of years and one big sign of it is the attack on people with brains, the intellectual class by trying to create a one class system.

This is what the universities are becoming in my opinion, pushing an old game with a new name. I remember to this day my grandma crying when she was talking about not eating for a few days or when waiting in line for 3 hours and were no eggs left. This is where mediocrity leads.

My personal experiences is true, they make me irrational and BIAS most of the time but I learnt to live with it. We all have our flaws.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Independent1986

[Moonlight Graham]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And yet you refer to ideas as diseases.  And I'm supposed to be the one siding against free speech.

Left-wing hysteria, much of it is about banning ideas and people that don't align with the approved paradigm, it's the opposite of free-speech.  That's a disease

[Independent1986]

20 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

That's a disease

Fascism, communism all fall into this definition. Group thinking that leads to hysteria and extremism from both sides.

Once the individual right of people are put second for "a greater good" the road in my opinion leads to hell.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Left-wing hysteria, much of it is about banning ideas and people that don't align with the approved paradigm, it's the opposite of free-speech.  That's a disease

You already said that they should be eradicated right?  Much of it?

 

So... you're really digging yourself a nice pit here.. 

For the record I don't believe conservative ideas should be 'eradicated' ..

 

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You already said that they should be eradicated right?  Much of it?

 

So... you're really digging yourself a nice pit here.. 

For the record I don't believe conservative ideas should be 'eradicated' ..

 

Sometimes it seems like a lost cause with very few options out there,  the left does not want to compromise on anything they deem important, and they hate anything the right proposes just because it came from the right.......it seems all that is left is to eradicate everything that is left

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You already said that they should be eradicated right?  Much of it?

 

So... you're really digging yourself a nice pit here.. 

For the record I don't believe conservative ideas should be 'eradicated' ..

I never said that word or anything like it, you put it in my mouth in 2 different posts.

I said universities are infected with a disease, which is left-wing hysteria.

People should be free to discuss any ideas they want.  That's not the culture we live in today though.  We live in a woke-McCarthyist witchhunt world.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. I never said that word or anything like it, you put it in my mouth in 2 different posts.

2. I said universities are infected with a disease, which is left-wing hysteria.

3. People should be free to discuss any ideas they want.  That's not the culture we live in today though.  We live in a woke-McCarthyist witchhunt world.

1. You're right, I didn't bother to look back sorry.

2. Disease is an odd way to describe an idea though, especially if you are posturing yourself as pro free speech.

3. Or maybe disease hunt ?

[Argus]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

For the record I don't believe conservative ideas should be 'eradicated' ..

But you think YOU'RE a conservative. Which only means you feel your ideas are fine. Anyone to the Right of you, on the other hand, which is almost everyone, you seem to define quite differently.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Sometimes it seems like a lost cause with very few options out there,  the left does not want to compromise on anything they deem important, and they hate anything the right proposes just because it came from the right.......it seems all that is left is to eradicate everything that is left

Much of the Left (not all of it) has adopted a near religious mania about their social views, particularly the 'antiracism' ones, which basically encompass everything about identity politics. But that religious fervor is now moving towards other views, as well, like being anti-Capitalism. If you're a religious fanatic then clearly you're not going to be willing to consider views in opposition to yours as anything but blasphemous.

[Moonbox]

On 7/4/2020 at 8:16 PM, Michael Hardner said:

2. Disease is an odd way to describe an idea though, especially if you are posturing yourself as pro free speech.

3. Or maybe disease hunt ?

What are you trying to communicate here, exactly?  Can you even explain what "idea" he's describing?  

I'd check your logic on this one, because this seems like petty semantics.  He's criticizing the pernicious (and institutional) weakening of standards for free speech/debate, and you're trying to characterize this as...somehow contrary to free speech - because he called it a disease?  

As an academic yourself, I imagine you're familiar with the concept of ideas-as-viruses?  

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

1. What are you trying to communicate here, exactly?  Can you even explain what "idea" he's describing?  

2. you're trying to characterize this as...somehow contrary to free speech - because he called it a disease?  

3. As an academic yourself, I imagine you're familiar with the concept of ideas-as-viruses?  

1. He has brought up the vague "ideas" of the left, I think.

2. Yes.  If that's unfair then ok BUT if on campus group think is a problem then let's start with a real discussion instead of vague muckracking.  The Lindsay Shepherd case would be a solid starting point.

3. I'm not an academic.  But I think Burroughs said "Language is a Virus".

[Moonbox]

On 7/6/2020 at 5:43 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. He has brought up the vague "ideas" of the left, I think.

2. Yes.  If that's unfair then ok BUT if on campus group think is a problem then let's start with a real discussion instead of vague muckracking.  The Lindsay Shepherd case would be a solid starting point.

3. I'm not an academic.  But I think Burroughs said "Language is a Virus".

For some reason I thought you worked at a university.  My mistake.  We've already discussed the Lindsay Shepherd case, but she was far from unique.  She was just local for me.  

As for ideas as viruses, I'm not talking about Burroughs.  I'm talking about how ideas set root in people's brains and can become almost impossible to dislodge, particularly when they're taken up as a group.  Religion is the most obvious examples of this, but then anti-vaxxers, D-E-E-P S-T-A-T-E conspiracies, lamestream media or McCarthyism would be examples too.  Runaway political correctness at universities and elsewhere is another.  

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

 Religion is the most obvious examples of this, but then anti-vaxxers, D-E-E-P S-T-A-T-E conspiracies, lamestream media or McCarthyism would be examples too.  Runaway political correctness at universities and elsewhere is another.  

Well, the liberal elites at Harper's have issued a letter, and that's a good continuing point for the discussion.

Let me be clear that I have acknowledged the groupthink issue, but I won't subscribe to extremism in the face of extremism.  This is a critical discussion, so seriousness and responsible statements are a requirement.

[Independent1986]

46 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

but I won't subscribe to extremism in the face of extremism

Yes, I am sure everyone wakes up one day and wants to be an extremist.

It is a process that starts when masses feel afraid and they gravitate to whichever criminal group promises them safety.

Study the case of Germany before WW2 and after WW1, you think the average German citizen woke up one day and said: I will become an extremist to fight the terrible economics that the country is in ? Of course not, but when that starts impacting your family and your basic needs EVERYONE (including you Michael) has it in them to become what you call an extremist. Unfortunately, as a result of this how many millions of people suffered when the masses decided to give their soul to old Adolph ?

And this is the danger to all this situation. You and many others only see Skinheads and Racists everywhere and you fail to see the systematic extremism of left wing ideologies that are creeping in every sector of our life. From business, universities and personal. This creates a chain reaction and groups are forming on the right. Now the question is, which criminal group will exploit this better ?  The catalysts are everywhere:  COVID, Unemployment and news propaganda on all sides. I sure hope we can all keep our balance if things get worse and will not be tempted to join a side. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Independent1986

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

... you fail to see the systematic extremism of left wing ideologies that are creeping in every sector of our life. 

Exactly what I am talking about.

Aren't you trying to Stoke fear with this warning of a conspiracy?

Look at the issues one by one and reject alarmism.  That's what I am doing.  

 

You are right that there's a movements to inflame.  Don't be part of it.

 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

feel afraid

IMO fear mongering is one of the worst things you can do. People take drastic action against things that they are afraid of. 

[Argus]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Exactly what I am talking about.

Aren't you trying to Stoke fear with this warning of a conspiracy?

He said nothing you can dispute. And yet you accuse  him of stoking fears and warning of conspiracies (which he did not do).

[Argus]

11 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

IMO fear mongering is one of the worst things you can do. People take drastic action against things that they are afraid of. 

And this is what the Left has been doing for the last half dozen or so years in particular, stoking fears of some great right wing, white supremacist conspiracy attacking the world. Every year we hear shrill warnings about the dangers of the far right, about the dangers of allowing anyone to promulgate 'hate' (defined by the Left as disagreement with the Left) and all of it is used to force silence on their opposition, and to force government and industry into censoring those who disagree with them.

The fear mongering has all been on the Left for quite some time.

[WestCanMan]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

He said nothing you can dispute. And yet you accuse  him of stoking fears and warning of conspiracies (which he did not do).

This topic blends quite naturally with the "No room for debating with the left" topic. 

Factual, logical, accurate and on-point comments which damage alt-left narratives and can't be denied are met with shrill & baseless accusations. 

[Independent1986]

On 7/7/2020 at 9:22 PM, Michael Hardner said:

conspiracy?

No conspiracy,  just my observations as I go through life, one by one, when it comes to work productivity and merit being replaced by other variables. Different standards for different groups. Stepping on individual rights is something that I am vehemently against. Mediocrity subscribers hate the idea of a strong individual, that's why words like privilege are thrown around to paint everyone with the same brush. I worked hard for every penny that I have made and I did not take it from anyone. So play that tune somewhere else. 

I understand some of you do struggle with racism and your making it up for it by lecturing of the danger of racism. Is called reverse psychology. For me I judge people individually and by the value of their character and as a result of that I am comfortable around everyone as long as is mutual respect.

When it comes to universities we have factories of diplomas for social workers, psychologists and activists yet when it comes to a major discovery in physics, it dates back in 1970's. Or maybe talk to the Asian students that were discriminated against when they tried to apply @ Harvard. Again my point exactly, Harvard an institution based on true racism applies reverse psychology for their own issues. Please don't send me a link of how some court decided that is not discrimination. When you have different entrance averages for different groups that is called discrimination. I don't care what some lawyer in a robe tells me. 

And lastly family, like I told my sister that lectures me weekly and cut contact with other members of the family because they are not as "evolved": a master degree did not teach you the what a university should teach you which is critical thinking. Is actually shocking, cult like mentality and this is someone with a master degree. Just imagine the frame of thinking of individuals that just finished high school.

These are all my points of view. You have yours and don't think you are more superior because you are less alarmist.

The explanation might be that you are not affected by this just yet but the way this is going you might change your mind when it comes close to your personal affairs. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Independent1986

[Michael Hardner]

The assertion that left-wing ideology is creeping into every sector is hyperbolic.  A long post wherein you assert that you are free of racism, implying that I am am projecting racism, provide no cites and ASK that we don't add cites... is just not a serious post.

 

But I am concerned with academic freedom, and have started a thread on that.

[Independent1986]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 A long post wherein you assert that you are free of racism

Where did I say that I am free of racism ? I said that I don't struggle with this idea of "racism" meaning that I am fully aware we have ingrained in us tribalism. I don't go around and lecture everyone else about this, what I do, I challenge my energy to focus on my interactions at the individual basis based on someone's character and moral compass. Funny thing happens when I do that, whatever pre-judgment I had goes away. 

I have experienced what you call racism and discrimination as well because of my English when I first came into Canada, landed straight to Grade 7. Is so poetic because a lot of people that judged and made rude comments towards me ended up being quite respectful towards the end. You know why ? When you do the right thing in life no matter what the circumstances people will come around to value that. 

I don't care about cites, whoever has the best marketing gets their point published online so people like you can reference them like that makes you hold the absolute truth . I think I will stick with my arrogance and my selfishness to make my own decisions.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Independent1986

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

 

I understand some of you do struggle with racism and your making it up for it by lecturing of the danger of racism. Is called reverse psychology. For me I judge people individually and by the value of their character and as a result of that I am comfortable around everyone as long as is mutual respect.

That's where I got the idea that you think others are racist but not you.

 

See ?  Cites explain things...