eyeball Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: the corruption is that the central bank is compromised the Bank of Canada is supposedly at arms length from the government but in reality, they are all the same elites, so they are colluding rather than do what is best for the economy, the Bank of Canada is propping the Liberals up We're clearly talking about two completely different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, eyeball said: We're clearly talking about two completely different things. there is only one corruption which causes inflation and that is the corruption of the central bank printing too many dollars in order to pay for government largesse Edited May 29, 2022 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 5/27/2022 at 9:38 AM, Michael Hardner said: Well... sort of. Globalism was unleashed by the fall of the Soviet Union and China succumbing to liberalism. Capitalism is behaving as we heard it would since 1867 Economic globalization precedes the fall of the USSR. Reagan/Thatcher neoliberalism. Globalization is a process. Globalism is an ideology. International investors and transnational corporations should not be given priority to the detriment of Canadians. Justin Trudeau doesn't pay a mortgage. Neoliberals in the GOP and Democratic party helped create Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 30 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: 1. Economic globalization precedes the fall of the USSR. Reagan/Thatcher neoliberalism. 2. Globalization is a process. Globalism is an ideology. 3. International investors and transnational corporations should not be given priority to the detriment of Canadians. Justin Trudeau doesn't pay a mortgage. Neoliberals in the GOP and Democratic party helped create Trump. 1. You're right. I should have said heightened. 2. Maybe explain the difference then, calmly and without lapsing into frothy platitudes? 3. And trade deal sacrifices the benefits of some of your countrymen to the whole. Frothy platitudes about the 'detriment' of Canadians are for politicians who don't even believe what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 4 hours ago, Dougie93 said: in order to contain that now, the BoC would have to raise interest rates back to 1980's levels 18% mortgage rates that would wipe out all the Canadians who borrowed more than they can actually afford I don't think 18% is at all possible. The system is based on the masses so the masses cannot be destroyed. We have a service based economy - those people don't make a whole bunch of money. When they remain without a shelter over their head, without a vehicle, broke, they will not be able to work any more. There goes your house of cards and those on top with the money will see it quickly devaluing beyond their wildest dreams as they will no longer be able to buy the services and goods they could before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, cougar said: I don't think 18% is at all possible. well, my father was paying 18% mortgage rate on his house in 1989 so I am quite sure it is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 see, you think the government is in control of this, obviously but actually, they are not when inflation reaches the point of burning the Canadian economy down the central bank, the Bank of Canada, will be forced to stop printing money at which point, anything is possible the bond markets will be deciding how much interest they want for Canadian debt 18% is more than possible the last time Canada got itself into financial trouble like this, the interest rate peaked at 22% in August of 1981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: see, you think the government is in control of this, obviously but actually, they are not when inflation reaches the point of burning the Canadian economy down the central bank, the Bank of Canada, will be forced to stop printing money at which point, anything is possible the bond markets will be deciding how much interest they want for Canadian debt 18% is more than possible the last time Canada got itself into financial trouble like this, the interest rate peaked at 22% in August of 1981 It will be possible if pay rates went up by 15% as well to reflect the inflation. Otherwise I do not think it is possible at all. It would sink a lot of businesses too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, cougar said: It will be possible if pay rates went up by 15% as well to reflect the inflation. Otherwise I do not think it is possible at all. It would sink a lot of businesses too. it could be to be a Depression in fact the financial situation now is tantamount to the 1920's next comes a crisis of historic proportions many Canadians are going to be wiped out, many Canadian companies will be wiped out massive correction, secular bear market it's going to be a catastrophe, it's just a matter of when it's been half a century since we have faced such a crisis so any Canadian under fifty simply does not remember what it will be like in the worst case scenario of spiralling wage & price deflation, otherwise known as a Depression no Canadian alive now remembers what that is like Edited May 29, 2022 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: no Canadian alive now remembers what that is like What was it like? Where did all those broke, homeless, jobless people go? The bank has no interest in owning houses they cannot sell. Edited May 29, 2022 by cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 Surely that drives our GDP numbers through the roof so relax and be happy. Blue face on the right or the red one left, your only concern. Business must go on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 16 minutes ago, cougar said: What was it like? Where did all those broke, homeless, jobless people go? The bank has no interest in owning houses they cannot sell. the banks are not in control of this neither the central banks & governments have colluded to the point of inciting.a global financial crisis of historic proportions there is nothing these elites can do to stop it it's not a question of if, only of when the Liberals in power now simply don't expect to be in government when the consequences come crashing down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 4 hours ago, Dougie93 said: there is only one corruption which causes inflation and that is the corruption of the central bank printing too many dollars in order to pay for government largesse Ok, but I'm talking about money laundering that's causing a real estate bubble. It's a bubble may not pop however. I think the fact increasing areas of the world are becoming less livable due to climate change and increasing civil unrest is starting to manifest in the market. This will more naturally drive the value of property in more livable pleasant regions of the world even higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 19 minutes ago, eyeball said: Ok, but I'm talking about money laundering that's causing a real estate bubble. that is not causing the bubble, you are wrong about that so I'm talking about the real causes, and you are not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: that is not causing the bubble, you are wrong about that so I'm talking about the real causes, and you are not Okay. So real estate is probably priced where it should be then based on other factors, like climate change and other sustainability and livability issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Okay. So real estate is probably priced where it should be then based on other factors, like climate change and other sustainability and livability issues. non sequitur fallacy /shrugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: non sequitur fallacy /shrugs Compared to your assertion the Bank of Canada is corrupt because it's in cahoots with Trudeau? Do you have any evidence, of a forensic nature please and thanks, that proves this? No of course you don't. You might if we didn't have a political accounting system that was so secretive and opaque. But conservative political parties in Canada don't seem to believe in transparency any more than Liberals - I've been given to understand Conservatives like drinking from the same well so... That's certainly the sense I get from most conservatives around here although I acknowledge a few of you are warming to the idea of removing as much secrecy from our governance as possible...I honestly think it's too little too late though because our civilization is clearly heading over a cliff. I've pretty much fully embraced the horror of that and...yeah...we should bring it on, sooner rather than later so maybe there'll still be something with which to rebuild. Edited May 29, 2022 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 52 minutes ago, eyeball said: Compared to your assertion the Bank of Canada is corrupt because it's in cahoots with Trudeau? Do you have any evidence, of a forensic nature please and thanks, that proves this? No of course you don't. You might if we didn't have a political accounting system that was so secretive and opaque. But conservative political parties in Canada don't seem to believe in transparency any more than Liberals - I've been given to understand Conservatives like drinking from the same well so... That's certainly the sense I get from most conservatives around here although I acknowledge a few of you are warming to the idea of removing as much secrecy from our governance as possible...I honestly think it's too little too late though because our civilization is clearly heading over a cliff. I've pretty much fully embraced the horror of that and...yeah...we should bring it on, sooner rather than later so maybe there'll still be something with which to rebuild. I'm not a conservative anymore I am a radical now tho I will simply bide my time as the leftist ruling elites derail the economy into a catastrophe then the left will be blamed for everything in the wake will come a revanchist right wing counterrevolutionary movement I'll just let the enraged masses do the dirty work for me therein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I'm not a conservative anymore I am a radical now I'm way way more radical than you. I actually want to aim the Telescreens the other way. Quote in the wake will come a revanchist right wing counterrevolutionary movement I'll just let the enraged masses do the dirty work for me therein When? Commies took over years ago. There's been one under every bed since almost forever now. They've been in the White House and PMO for years. They've taken over without having needed to fire a shot. All in the face of millions upon millions of wide awoke conservatives many of them armed, many of them quite heavily. Most freaking out about their countries becoming dictatorships. Millions of these freaked out conservatives tie their rights to bear arms directly to a need to guard against if not take back control of exactly what is or should I say has happened. So again I ask, when will this big revanchist right-wing movement start? I bet turning the Telescreens would be a lot more productive. But your way would no doubt be a lot easier. Edited May 29, 2022 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 29, 2022 Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, eyeball said: I'm way way more radical than you. I actually want to aim the Telescreens the other way. I am diametrically opposed to you but I am quite confident that my radical camp is going to wipe yours out so no worries, we will deal with you in due time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Dougie93 said: I am diametrically opposed to you Why on Earth would you want to thicken the shroud of secrecy from under which the elites govern us? For the life of me I do not understand why you wouldn't want to remove it entirely. Quote but I am quite confident that my radical camp is going to wipe yours out so no worries, we will deal with you in due time I'm pretty confident your camp will never muster the courage it needs to rally around its convictions given how deeply communists have already been allowed to sap and impurify our nation's precious bodily fluids. I'm not worried at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just now, eyeball said: I'm pretty confident your camp will never muster the courage it needs to rally around its convictions given how deeply communists have already been allowed to sap and impurify our nation's precious bodily fluids. ha ha ha ha ! that's a good one Jack D. Ripper did nothing wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: ha ha ha ha ! that's a good one Jack D. Ripper did nothing wrong Modre to the point though he took the the courage of his convictions seriously and acted on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, eyeball said: Modre to the point though he took the the courage of his convictions seriously and acted on them. the principle corruption is moral hazard money printing to avoid having to pay the price of things all other corruption flows from there the only thing that can put a stop to it, is a catastrophic fiscal & economic crisis only then will the masses feel the agony with crisis comes opportunity, to hang the elites from the lampposts in the meantime, we'll just have to bide our time patience : squat in the jungle with Nathaniel Victor, eat your fishheads & nuoc mam Edited May 30, 2022 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 On 5/29/2022 at 12:50 PM, Michael Hardner said: 1. You're right. I should have said heightened. 2. Maybe explain the difference then, calmly and without lapsing into frothy platitudes? 3. And trade deal sacrifices the benefits of some of your countrymen to the whole. Frothy platitudes about the 'detriment' of Canadians are for politicians who don't even believe what they say. 2. What is a "frothy platitude"? Here's a good explanation I found: 3. I'm not anti-trade deals. A government's primary job is to advance the interests of the nation and its citizens. If a trade deal does that, great. As you say, there are usually winners and losers in any trade deal. This needs to be factored and weighed. I am a populist, as opposed to an elitist, therefore what benefits the general populace should be given priority over what benefits the wealthy and gov elites etc. I also support orienting toward nativism over globalism when interests collide, meaning what government policy that benefits Canada/Canadians is far more important (generally, some exceptions apply) than what benefits people/companies/countries outside Canada. The problem in Canada is that we have had politicians for decades that have oriented too much towards elitism and globalism to the detriment of Canadians and Canada's national interests. I suspect much of this is due to corruption, some of it due to ideology, in Trudeau gov's case. For example, allowing car manufacturing jobs to be exported means auto employees lose, but car buyers in the country win due to lower car prices, and car companies win from higher profit margins. The alternative is keeping high paying union auto jobs and slapping on tarrifs to foreign cars being imported so domestic car companies can compete, which will result in more expensive cars for Canadians. Sounds like exporting those jobs is the right thing to do. In terms of housing, allowing foreign speculators to buy up Canadian housing is good for foreign speculators and Canadian developers, but bad for any Canadian wanting to buy a home as it lowers supply and increased demand for housing, raising prices for Canadian homebuyers. Frothy translation: foreign investors and Canadian developers can suck it. If orienting towards globalism/globalization for a certain policy advances the national interests and/or interests of everyday Canadians I will support it. If it doesn't, I won't support it. This goes for just about every other government policy, with allowance for some basic human rights. ie: I won't support our government bombing a village in Africa so we can steal their gold and increase gov revenues. So the problems are: 1. our politicians are corrupt, and 2. some of them are too concerned with political correctness and virtue signaling to stand up to foreign interests in favour of Canadian interests for fear of being called racist, discriminatory or making some ethnic constituency PO'd etc. If a Canadian politician is corrupt, and/or too cowardly to make a decision that some may deem racist but actually isn't and they aren't able to act in Canada's best interests they should resign or be voted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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