Standard of life - what is it about for you?

[cougar]

I am watching all growth and expansion and resource exploitation with life generally becoming more unafordable , environment more compromised; resources depleted; available time less and less; stress levels going up.

So it begs the question: Is this what we are all trying to achieve?  Or are we all failures unable to cope with present day demands and falling behind?

What do you thing a good standard of life is and how do you define it?  What income, what do you need to buy?  What social life, what environment.....I am all ears.

[betsy]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

I am watching all growth and expansion and resource exploitation with life generally becoming more unafordable , environment more compromised; resources depleted; available time less and less; stress levels going up.

So it begs the question: Is this what we are all trying to achieve?  Or are we all failures unable to cope with present day demands and falling behind?

 

I think, the driving force behind all that is materialism.

 We all contributed with how life had gotten to the point we are now.  It didn't happen overnight, either.

 

 

Quote

What do you thing a good standard of life is and how do you define it?  What income, what do you need to buy?  What social life, what environment.....I am all ears.

We have to live within our means.  And, we have to find contentment in it.

Though we can aspire for a better income, it shouldn't be the center of our life.

 

  What people want most I think (I speak for myself) - and my hubby and I had already achieved it, and are living in it - is having that inner peace even at a time like this.   Because, we had put our trust in God.  That's the secret, imho.  GOD.

Edited June 7, 2020 by betsy

[Independent1986]

4 hours ago, cougar said:

What do you thing a good standard of life is and how do you define it?  What income, what do you need to buy?  What social life, what environment.....I am all ears.

For me I define a good standard of life as having purpose. Getting up in the morning with a plan, thinking about something bigger than myself, like a business that provides services to other individuals. You can also find purpose in any job you have.

Being involved in a small-medium sized business you can make profit but also help people and society. I have a tactic that I use, I never think about my clients as "clients", when that phone/e-mail starts I think about them as people asking for help. The feeling that you get when you solve issues by providing a service is amazing. Having said that, I am not a communist , money comes with it yes and there is no shame to receive rewards for hard work. 

Big monopolistic companies on top, I won't call them capitalistic because they are not, Amazon being one example has cannons and we are mosquitoes. If the mosquitoes (small-medium sized business) fail there is no socialism for us, which that is the way capitalism should be ! You win or you fail ! After you fail you think about another idea and you move on.

The biggest welfare check was written to AIG Insurance during the 2008 crisis, how come ?  This is the people that use words like "Profit" "Investors" when they get up in the morning yet they went running to the government crying for a bail out.

Artificial Intelligence will help my industry, however the power is with the consumer and I am sympathetic with the consumer, because is easier to go on amazon.com and click on something and have it to your home the next day. However if we start with small steps, like coffee for example, I never buy from Tim Hortons or Starbucks, I walk an extra 100 m and give my money to a local Somali business owner. 

When all you socialists on this forum attack capitalism maybe you should vent your anger at the monopolists on top and when the next bailout happens I might even join you to a protest haha because I don't want to pay for other companies failures. If my neighbor builds a pool and 20 rooms and has no money to pay for it, why should I pay for it ?

Edited June 7, 2020 by Independent1986

[OftenWrong]

Hard to say, but for me could possibly be encapsulated in these 3 words:

The American Dream

[Moonlight Graham]

Families used to be able to afford a home, a car, and a few kids on one income.  Now they need 2 incomes for the same thing, but people have fewer kids and the homes have smaller properties.

The new detached homes being built have no front lawns.  The only grass in the front is the tiny trip between the driveways of each house.  And backyards?  Who needs those!

Standard of living will never go up very much for the middle class because even as their incomes go up, much of that money goes towards bidding on their houses.  The highest bids for your average family home will go to the families who squeeze just about everything out of their mortgages as they can afford or as the bank will allow.  If every worker in Canada got a 20% raise?  Odds are eventually most of that would go towards larger mortgages for the same homes.  Banks and builders win, everyone else loses.

Rising house prices doesn't even benefit people who already live in homes, because everyone has to live in a house and if you sell your current house for big money you still have to buy another house to live in for big money.

If we want a higher standard of living we'd need to make auctions on housing illegal and set a standard price for them based on age, square-footage, location etc. + profit for the builders.

[Rue]

10 hours ago, betsy said:

I think, the driving force behind all that is materialism.

 We all contributed with how life had gotten to the point we are now.  It didn't happen overnight, either.

 

 

We have to live within our means.  And, we have to find contentment in it.

Though we can aspire for a better income, it shouldn't be the center of our life.

 

  What people want most I think (I speak for myself) - and my hubby and I had already achieved it, and are living in it - is having that inner peace even at a time like this.   Because, we had put our trust in God.  That's the secret, imho.  GOD.

I am always with Besty on this. Life is how you choose to define. When she says God it means humility...feeling connected to a search fo purpose that flows from a journey that set out from something far higher than us but gave us opportunity to detach from it to find that purpose and share the experiences learned in finding that purpose.  In a nutshell I get glimpses of that purpose everytime I witness someone do good and how intricate and beautiful nature is. Simple but yet profound  stuff. Ah that is as good as I can answer because in this material world you get easily suckered into measuring value or defining oneself by what they own or control which to me is a distraction.

[cougar]

7 hours ago, Rue said:

I am always with Besty on this.

I could agree but.....

It is impossible to achieve this inner peace while the world around you falls apart, people become more and more, traffic gets more and more, people you meet casually are not those you want to meet and the list goes on.....

We may put our trust in God or whatever we want to call it; a creative force, but if we do not try to change the wrongs and accept them, we would devalue our own lives and leave all in the hands of this creative / destructive power that can blow our planet up tomorrow and restart life a few million light years away from the Solar system. 

Sorry, can't do that.  I will try to change things no matter how small the contributions for as a long as I breathe!

So, what is it for me, let me think.....

It will revolve somewhere around these things:

1. I will not have to spend more than 2 or 3 days a week to feed myself and have my housing needs met.  Sound impossible?  Keep in mind we pay for land which  is God's property and we have it upon our birth.  It does not belong to no Crown and we should pay exactly $0 for it, and $0 for property taxes and $0 for interest.   If you think about it for a while it may turn out we really can work only 3 days a week and have what we have now.

2. I will be able to rely on the ecosystem around me - forests, rivers, wildlife and fish.  Now the only reliable thing is the prediction that there will be less and less of them tomorrow.

3.  I am not going to be subjected to the crazy levels of commercial traffic daily and will have my peace and quiet like I live in a village of 30 - 100 people

4.  I will have a government that will put the Environment and the well being of its citizens first; no more crazy "growth", no more immigration Chinese and East Indian crap.

5.  I will live among people who speak my language (figuratively) , so I can enjoy my time with them.     Those who don't, like those who throw their beer can off the window of their pickup, will be caught undressed in public and whipped!

6.  There will be no more big 4x4 trucks, unless needed for a particular job.  A single person will travel in a small electric vehicle, when weather of physical abilities make biking impossible.  No more power boats, no more snowmobiles, no more fourwheelers

I think I high standard of life is when you can leave your job and last an indefinite amount of time without another job.    This is a HIGH STANDARD OF LIFE.

What we are living right now is ill camouflaged slavery.

 

 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, cougar said:

I could agree but.....

It is impossible to achieve this inner peace while the world around you falls apart, people become more and more, traffic gets more and more, people you meet casually are not those you want to meet and the list goes on.....

We may put our trust in God or whatever we want to call it; a creative force, but if we do not try to change the wrongs and accept them, we would devalue our own lives and leave all in the hands of this creative / destructive power that can blow our planet up tomorrow and restart life a few million light years away from the Solar system. 

Sorry, can't do that.  I will try to change things no matter how small the contributions for as a long as I breathe!

So, what is it for me, let me think.....

It will revolve somewhere around these things:

1. I will not have to spend more than 2 or 3 days a week to feed myself and have my housing needs met.  Sound impossible?  Keep in mind we pay for land which  is God's property and we have it upon our birth.  It does not belong to no Crown and we should pay exactly $0 for it, and $0 for property taxes and $0 for interest.   If you think about it for a while it may turn out we really can work only 3 days a week and have what we have now.

2. I will be able to rely on the ecosystem around me - forests, rivers, wildlife and fish.  Now the only reliable thing is the prediction that there will be less and less of them tomorrow.

3.  I am not going to be subjected to the crazy levels of commercial traffic daily and will have my peace and quiet like I live in a village of 30 - 100 people

4.  I will have a government that will put the Environment and the well being of its citizens first; no more crazy "growth", no more immigration Chinese and East Indian crap.

5.  I will live among people who speak my language (figuratively) , so I can enjoy my time with them.     Those who don't, like those who throw their beer can off the window of their pickup, will be caught undressed in public and whipped!

6.  There will be no more big 4x4 trucks, unless needed for a particular job.  A single person will travel in a small electric vehicle, when weather of physical abilities make biking impossible.  No more power boats, no more snowmobiles, no more fourwheelers

I think I high standard of life is when you can leave your job and last an indefinite amount of time without another job.    This is a HIGH STANDARD OF LIFE.

What we are living right now is ill camouflaged slavery.

 

 

 

I like 2, 3, 5 and 6.  I'd definitely support you on those.  As for 1, land, I don't believe in God so I can't cede ownership there.  Unless you want bloodshed you have to have a civilized method of allocating land.  Paying for it seems reasonable.  It should be cheaper.  The only way we can ever have protected areas is if much of it belongs to the crown so I'm okay with that too.

I'm an immigrant so I don't feel too comfortable with 4.

[cougar]

Nobody else interested to chime in?

So far what most seem to agree with is that the Standard of Life is going down, despite all "growth" our politicians are promoting, all new job creation, all technological progress, all improved transportation routes, all reduced product costs, all sacrifices of land and other species.

Why not ask your MP, what he/she thinks about it; why this is happening and when are they going to go back to the days things were running slow, fish were still in the river, the river was still clean and one family member , with his job, could provide for a family of 5 , house and all.

[Michael Hardner]

On 6/7/2020 at 11:02 PM, cougar said:

 

1. I will not have to spend more than 2 or 3 days a week to feed myself and have my housing needs met.  Sound impossible?  Keep in mind we pay for land which  is God's property and we have it upon our birth.  It does not belong to no Crown and we should pay exactly $0 for it, and $0 for property taxes and $0 for interest.   If you think about it for a while it may turn out we really can work only 3 days a week and have what we have now.

2. I will be able to rely on the ecosystem around me - forests, rivers, wildlife and fish.  Now the only reliable thing is the prediction that there will be less and less of them tomorrow.

3.  I am not going to be subjected to the crazy levels of commercial traffic daily and will have my peace and quiet like I live in a village of 30 - 100 people

4.  I will have a government that will put the Environment and the well being of its citizens first; no more crazy "growth", no more immigration Chinese and East Indian crap.

5.  I will live among people who speak my language (figuratively) , so I can enjoy my time with them.     Those who don't, like those who throw their beer can off the window of their pickup, will be caught undressed in public and whipped!

6.  There will be no more big 4x4 trucks, unless needed for a particular job.  A single person will travel in a small electric vehicle, when weather of physical abilities make biking impossible.  No more power boats, no more snowmobiles, no more fourwheelers

7. I think I high standard of life is when you can leave your job and last an indefinite amount of time without another job.    This is a HIGH STANDARD OF LIFE.

8. What we are living right now is ill camouflaged slavery.

9. So far what most seem to agree with is that the Standard of Life is going down, despite all "growth" our politicians are promoting, all new job creation, all technological progress, all improved transportation routes, all reduced product costs, all sacrifices of land and other species.

"Nobody else interested to chime in?"  

I will.

1-8. Above: Some of these are reasonable, some of it is impractical/wishful, and some of it is your own personal fascist values (imposing your language on people within earshot) that nobody would get behind.  It strikes me that you don't have enough knowledge of the political economy to expect these things could happen, if that's how you feel.

9. I don't agree that Standard of Life is going down.  
- There are lots of new practical freedoms and tolerances for people who don't pursue a white, Christian-based, heteronormative, family life today that weren't there a century ago.
- The comforts, diversions and indulgences in culture and technology are cheap and plentiful - phones, games, social media, internet, music, streaming, cultural events and ethnic/diversity parades
- Food, alcohol and cannabis are more varied, cheaper, and widely available
- Employment is less physical, more rewarding, less hazardous and more inclusive.  Worker mobility is higher.
- Life is healthier, with living longer, being more aware of the benefits of exercise, moderation in smoking and drinking etc.

I do agree that the costs of housing have been too high of late, and that the benefits of GDP growth aren't spread evenly but that is just a bit of legislation from being fixed really.

[cougar]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

9. I don't agree that Standard of Life is going down.  
- There are lots of new practical freedoms and tolerances for people who don't pursue a white, Christian-based, heteronormative, family life today that weren't there a century ago.
- The comforts, diversions and indulgences in culture and technology are cheap and plentiful - phones, games, social media, internet, music, streaming, cultural events and ethnic/diversity parades
- Food, alcohol and cannabis are more varied, cheaper, and widely available
- Employment is less physical, more rewarding, less hazardous and more inclusive.  Worker mobility is higher.
- Life is healthier, with living longer, being more aware of the benefits of exercise, moderation in smoking and drinking etc.

I do agree that the costs of housing have been too high of late, and that the benefits of GDP growth aren't spread evenly but that is just a bit of legislation from being fixed really.

Calling me a fascist is fine.   But the arguments you have to prove standard of life is actually going up are laughable.

-Christian-based, heteronormative family, life today that weren't there a century ago.  - ??? no idea what you are talking about    But I bet you a century ago you could fish for salmon that were plentiful all you want, you could actually go hunt white rhinos that are now 5 animals away from complete extinction; you could go hunt tigers, or whatever you wanted to and have an adventure without fear of decimating a species and becoming a target of conservation groups.   You could actually walk through virgin forests back then ; now you walk through shrubs.  You could live in a quiet neighborhood.  Now you have to live with noise 24/7.

- technology and culture?  - that technology making zombies out of everyone? 

-"Food, alcohol and cannabis are more varied, cheaper, and widely available" - food is crappier and filled with more toxins than ever before.  Alcohol is 5-10 times more expensive in Canada than Germany, cannabis I do not use, but am still shocked it was legalized - I will let you score a point under "Cannabis".  Higher standard of life because we have more available cannabis! (feed this line to a politicians, it will be hillareous)

- Employment is less physical - in what way?   I see equipment operators  - one machine, one operator.  100% years ago they would have used shovels, but I bet they also had better and stronger bodies.

-Life is healthier, with living longer, being more aware of the benefits of exercise, moderation in smoking and drinking etc.  - In a damaged environment with contaminated water and food sources it is illogical people will live longer. However , if you count those who died in wars in the past, it may create the impression people now live longer.   All I know is, those who make it to 110 are usually away from civilization up in the Peruvian mountains, not in the middle of the GTA.

 

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, cougar said:

1. - ??? no idea what you are talking about   
2. But I bet you a century ago you could fish for salmon that were plentiful all you want, you could actually go hunt white rhinos that are now 5 animals away from complete extinction;
3. you could go hunt tigers, or whatever you wanted to and have an adventure without fear of decimating a species and becoming a target of conservation groups.   You could actually walk through virgin forests back then ; now you walk through shrubs.  You could live in a quiet neighborhood.  Now you have to live with noise 24/7.

4. - technology and culture?  - that technology making zombies out of everyone? 

5. -"Food, alcohol and cannabis are more varied, cheaper, and widely available" - food is crappier and filled with more toxins than ever before.  Alcohol is 5-10 times more expensive in Canada than Germany, cannabis I do not use, but am still shocked it was legalized - I will let you score a point under "Cannabis".  Higher standard of life because we have more available cannabis! (feed this line to a politicians, it will be hillareous)

6.  I see equipment operators  - one machine, one operator.  100% years ago they would have used shovels, but I bet they also had better and stronger bodies.

7.  In a damaged environment with contaminated water and food sources it is illogical people will live longer. However , if you count those who died in wars in the past, it may create the impression people now live longer.   All I know is, those who make it to 110 are usually away from civilization up in the Peruvian mountains, not in the middle of the GTA.

 

1. You can be a single woman, a gay person, or a Jew and be a mayor, a director of sales, or a writer.
2. Ok, so things aren't as good for individual Salmon fishermen or ... Rhino hunters.  
3. There were cities in 1920.  Lots of them.  So, ok ... tiger hunters have it worse.  I can't imagine how many people do that for a living but I expect it's zero in Canada.
4. Ok, so you don't like technology.  It actually makes live easier.
5. Canada's booze being more expensive than Germany's isn't germane.  It's cheaper than in the past.  Food is more varied and more nutritious food is available if you choose them.
6. Peoples' bodies were wrecked by physical labour in the past.  
7. There were no great wars raging in Canada in 1920 and life expectancy was 15-20 years less than today.  https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2016002-eng.htm

Your disagreements seem to be just opinions ... complaints you have about our current day.  I'll give you a nod... that Rhino Hunters and Tiger Hunters have a tougher time of it... The fact that you didn't know and don't believe life expectancy has increased in 100 years tells me all I need to know about this discussion.


 

[cougar]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The fact that you didn't know and don't believe life expectancy has increased in 100 years tells me all I need to know about this discussion.

Again no meaningful arguments from you.  Life expectancy , right or wrong, has little to do with standard of life.     What was that song "Better burn than glow".  Some choose to burn and have their lives over by late 30-s, others glow till 85.

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by cougar

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, cougar said:

Again no meaningful arguments from you.  Life expectancy , right or wrong, has little to do with standard of life.     

You don't think life expectancy is a meaningful metric in this discussion?

You brought up rhino hunting in your argument.

I think that you are just stubborn and don't like to concede points.

[cougar]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You don't think life expectancy is a meaningful metric in this discussion?

You brought up rhino hunting in your argument.

I think that you are just stubborn and don't like to concede points.

I agree everyone has different interpretations of what standard of living criteria should be.  So, my apologies.  If longevity is one of your criterion that is good to know.

This is why I started this topic, to see what people consider important.

Hunting opportunities are a good measure for me in an indirect way.  I am not a hunter and have no desire to kill anything, particularly animals that are not food items.

Hunting opportunities illustrate the abundance of life and species that used to be.  They are all gone.

No matter how much gold one might have today; this gold is not going to bring back any of the extinct species, it is not going to fix the forests or climate.

You cannot go to a Climate shop and buy the weather you want in your area, the species and number of animals you want and the number of trees with their age groups that you want on the nearby slope. 

If one is happy with living in a cubicle, eating pizza and having an affair with  the admin assistant on the 15th floor of the building while smoking pot and drinking, they must be in their nirvana right now.

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by cougar

[Adam1980]

On 6/19/2020 at 8:16 PM, cougar said:

Hunting opportunities are a good measure for me in an indirect way.  I am not a hunter and have no desire to kill anything, particularly animals that are not food items.

Hunting opportunities illustrate the abundance of life and species that used to be.  They are all gone.

What opportunities are no longer available? I'm not trying to be cheeky, but to limit the discussion to Canada, there are many varied 'game' to go after. Fish, mammal, bird...pick something to kill and eat and one can do so.  

I think it's a reasonable statement to say that standard of living is better now that some indeterminate time in the past. To name a few big ones off the top of my head, we cure and treat more disease effectively, folks live longer, and there are more and varied opportunities for people to make a living doing different things.

[cougar]

On 1/2/2021 at 8:55 AM, Adam1980 said:

What opportunities are no longer available?

 

In Canada, the last remaining wilderness?  

You can no longer fish for Thompson river steelhead. There are about 200 fish currently returning in the whole river which is hundreds of kilometers long and over 250 meters wide.

Where I live, the Skeena watershed, you can no longer fish for chinook salmon - it went down the drain really fast.  Steelehad are about 1/5 of what it was last year, and last year wasn't a good year either.   Moose, bears, eveything is going down and going down fast.

But I had in mind more exotic species, like the tigers in Asia or the rhinos and elephants in Africa.  Again, I would not have shot a single one of them in my life even under the best of the circumstances.

All those real big jumbo idiots who amass wealth in the form of gold, properties or fat bank accounts might think they are rich.  In reality they can no longer do a lot of things that poorer people were able to do not that long ago.

All their problem and of their own creation, hence I have the full right to call them idiots.