This is now very little ability to disagree with the Left

[Independent1986]

39 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would like to return the dialogue to what our actual problems are: sustainable economies that benefit all people, creeds and genders.

Is too late for that, once you give the extremists on both sides one finger they take the whole hand.

As a matter of fact traditional conservatives like yourself along with traditional liberals are mostly to blame for what is happening.

You are a conservative committed to social justice ? You better keep the first part quiet when you are in public, this is the environment that all you do gooders created. It might not affect you that much actually, you run in your circles however is people like yourself that have a part in taking away the average individual's ability to speak his mind because of your tolerance to intolerance.

Now we have a mob police that can't wait to destroy someone's life or business, it does not matter if he/she is innocent or guilty. There is almost no due process.

It was fun games until now right ? Now reality sets in, especially when it start hitting your profits  

Edited June 22, 2020 by Independent1986

[Moonbox]

On 6/20/2020 at 1:48 PM, eyeball said:

Why do you guys seem to think conservatives posses an ability to agree that the left doesn't?  Look at the different conservative factions we have in Canada that always seem to be attracted to he strongest looking populist that's edging farther to the right. 

Well both sides are guilty of this in similar degrees.  This forum appears these days to lean more heavily right - much more so than 10 years ago, so the debate seems less "even".  

Regardless, there are key differences in how this plays out in the real world, the most important among them being the successful weaponization of "offense".  Though again, both sides make efforts and have their success and failures, the Left's efforts have been far more effective.  Corporations are more concerned with the bottom line and it's lower hanging fruit to avoid negative media/social media attention than it is to promote or generate the opposite.  The emphasis is therefore on muzzling anyone or any comments that could be deemed "offensive", and this often leads to absurd results.  

 

[eyeball]

24 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Well both sides are guilty of this in similar degrees.  This forum appears these days to lean more heavily right - much more so than 10 years ago, so the debate seems less "even".

This forum was invaded by people who lost their platform when news-outlets started limiting and closing comments sections. A lot of lefties abandoned the place when it was over-run by right-wing refugees who immigrated here but of course righties will say the opposite is true.  An ability, inability or unwillingness to communicate is definitely at the heart of things and it's clearly not just this forum that this trend is apparent. 

Quote

Regardless, there are key differences in how this plays out in the real world, the most important among them being the successful weaponization of "offense".  Though again, both sides make efforts and have their success and failures, the Left's efforts have been far more effective.  Corporations are more concerned with the bottom line and it's lower hanging fruit to avoid negative media/social media attention than it is to promote or generate the opposite.  The emphasis is therefore on muzzling anyone or any comments that could be deemed "offensive", and this often leads to absurd results.

I would argue the right was enjoying a lot more success at being offensive when Karl Rove, conservative PAC's and allied media punditry - the Limbaugh's and Coulter's of the airwaves - took a very in-your-face no-holds barred stance towards pushing a conservative agenda.  The ridiculous result being that the right-wing is now a direction and everything in its wake is communist.  Maybe that's what running away does to a person.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Why, it's almost like it isn't the "Left" at all.

Seriously? All this is coming from the Left. I never proposed a perfect unanimity from the Left. Lately the Left has been eating itself, attacking its own members for lack of purity, as in the Lewis complaint about the ferocious attacks on Margarete Atwood and JK Rowling. We could say the same of their hatred for Meghan Murphy. This is something we see in a lot of angry revolutionary type movements.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am trying to figure it out, as a conservative.

You are not a conservative in any way, shape or form. Nor have you ever been as long as you've been on this site.

Quote

It appears to mean anyone who speaks up against what they perceive as racism.

More like anyone who rages against the whole of society, who spits on Canada and its history and traditions, who blames all white people for the presumed misbehavior of their distant ancestors. And who wants to defend police because they have a habit of getting violent with violent criminals who have  a habit of not being white.

Quote

As a conservative and a Christian committed to social justice

LOL

Edited June 22, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

Is too late for that, once you give the extremists on both sides one finger they take the whole hand.

As a matter of fact traditional conservatives like yourself

MH has been on this site for a decade. He has always been a liberal and has been moving progressively further to the Left over the past several years. His claim of being conservative is, I suspect, merely for the purpose of his own amusement.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This forum was invaded by people who lost their platform when news-outlets started limiting and closing comments sections. A lot of lefties abandoned the place when it was over-run by right-wing refugees who immigrated here

Let's be honest. They abandoned the place because the moderator kept suspending them for their constant insults. Most of them weren't capable of debating an issue without adding sneers and ad hominums for the presumed moral defects of anyone who disagreed with them

35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I would argue the right was enjoying a lot more success at being offensive when Karl Rove, conservative PAC's and allied media punditry - the Limbaugh's and Coulter's of the airwaves - took a very in-your-face no-holds barred stance towards pushing a conservative agenda.  The ridiculous result being that the right-wing is now a direction and everything in its wake is communist.  Maybe that's what running away does to a person.

The far right is a tiny, loud group. It's true that the so-called conservative media, and I would add FOX to that, have pushed more people further to the right, but even most Republicans long for a middle of the road government with dialogue and cooperation between both parties.

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

I would argue the right was enjoying a lot more success at being offensive when Karl Rove, conservative PAC's and allied media punditry - the Limbaugh's and Coulter's of the airwaves - took a very in-your-face no-holds barred stance towards pushing a conservative agenda.  The ridiculous result being that the right-wing is now a direction and everything in its wake is communist.  Maybe that's what running away does to a person.

Coulter and Limbaugh are just rallying cries for the Left though.  It's an invocation - a bogeyman - and just leads the discussion off on a red herring.   They have their platform, and their listeners, and they natter loudly and provocatively at the dumb and the ignorant.  Their business is to do exactly what they're doing and they're in no way demonstrative of the "Right" in general, just like Kim Jong is not a good representation of the Left.  

Both "sides" are guilty of putting their head in the sands, but the "offence-culture" has a far larger and more successful apparatus for naming and shaming on a mainstream level.  Unless you're voicing 100% support for whatever progressive issue is in vogue at the moment, it's best to keep your mouth shut.  Questioning the implications even are often met with public shaming, campaigns to boycott and then cowardly attempts at conflict avoidance from the wayward speakers peers (current and former) who scramble to distance themselves from what often amounts to little more than a differing viewpoint.  JK Rowling hates transgender people, we'd be led to believe. Few actually bothered to pay attention to what she was saying and where her comments come from.  

 

 

[BubberMiley]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

Seriously? All this is coming from the Left. I never proposed a perfect unanimity from the Left. Lately the Left has been eating itself, attacking its own members for lack of purity, as in the Lewis complaint about the ferocious attacks on Margarete Atwood and JK Rowling. We could say the same of their hatred for Meghan Murphy. This is something we see in a lot of angry revolutionary type 

I guess if you consider "the Left" comprising the vast majority of the political spectrum,  you're right.

[taxme]

35 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

I guess if you consider "the Left" comprising the vast majority of the political spectrum,  you're right.

Most Canadians today are either mostly globalist liberal socialists or are communists. Just look at who they keep voting for? Leftist liberals and NDP socialists and even communists. The conservative party is just another leftist liberal political party also. It's no wonder the sheeple in Canada keep getting more and more government and more bureaucracies into their commie lives. The only way that Canada can get back to where it once was as a great conservative nation is to stop voting for and get rid of those mentioned above. As long as they are allowed to keep running and ruining and ruling over this country we will all lose.

Sad part about all of it is that it will take a bit more Canadian communism into their lives before they hopefully start to realize and see that they have been made suckers of and are shown just how stupid they have become and have made a big huge mistake. Sadly, that may take another four more years for that to ever happen. For now, Canada is pretty much phu-ked. 

[BubberMiley]

Yes, when the conversation is strictly among people of varying degrees of commitment to the very far right, pretty much everyone else is "the Left".

[Argus]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

I guess if you consider "the Left" comprising the vast majority of the political spectrum,  you're right.

I would say the Left comprises the vast majority of the chattering classes, ie, the media, academia, artistic and union leadership types. And, of course, since most politicians are whores, the majority of politicians, as well.

[BubberMiley]

And all that's left are the people who think China created covid to make Trump look bad.

[Independent1986]

The more I look at this issue it always goes back to the universities. When I received my degree, things were not that bad back then, the social sciences classes were not that big as they are now, the activism was not as blatant. You could walk around campus and exchange ideas with people.

Because the universities learnt that they can make good money on stupidity they started advertising to everyone the dream of going for higher learning. As a result of this you had individuals that scored 50-60 % in high school making it to university. Masses to be brainwashed by professors that never produced or provided a service for another human being, majority of them, in my opinion marxists to their core. 

As a result it downgraded the value of a degree and gave us the society that we live in today where we have pink haired individuals (forgiveness to the PC police) lecturing intellectuals about life and privilege. What an insult to intellectual minorities that succeed in life.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Independent1986

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

And all that's left are the people who think China created covid to make Trump look bad.

They rob Canada of an effective opposition, let alone giving the possibility of removing the weakest Liberal PM in living memory.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Independent1986 said:

1. Because the universities learnt that they can make good money on stupidity they started advertising to everyone the dream of going to university. As a result of this you had people that scored 50-60 % in high school making it to university.

2. Masses to be brainwashed by professors that never produced or provided a service for another human being, majority of them, in my opinion marxists to their core. 

3. As a result it downgraded the value of a degree and gave us the society that we live in today where we have pink haired individuals lecturing intellectuals about life and privilege.

4. What an insult to intellectual minorities that succeed in life.

 

1. This is a decades-long trend, and driven by parents who want to buy a middle-class job for their kids.  The model is breaking though.
2. I don't believe the majority are 'marxists'.  You are putting yourself in the column of hysterical paranoids in my opinion.  'Marxism' as a serious objective is as dead as a white homeland is.  We should not waste time entertaining this as a serious possibility, but we should watch for extremists.  Even Marxists today don't think there will ever be Marxism, eg. Slavoj Zizek.
3. You went to university and you think that pink hair means you're dumb ?  You should maybe go back.
4. Intellectual pursuit is its own reward - definitely not related to 'success in life' otherwise.

[Independent1986]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. You went to university and you think that pink hair means you're dumb ?  You should maybe go back.
 

Hey listen, with respect, don't tell me what I think and I don't think, I understand in this society you are not allowed to make a harmless joke anymore if it is not approved by the PC police. Did I say that all pink hair people are dumb ? Of course there are exceptions of pink hair individuals that end up as good as Enstein, I was just using a personal example that I know. I told you, I am not a hypocrite I admit I am flawed.

Second of all, it does not make you smart or enlightened for joining your revolutionary friends to suppress thought, as soon as your finances will take a harder hit you would switch tactics in a heart beat just like the big corporations are doing. I am who I am and I am not a hypocrite, as a matter of facts I am allergic to hypocrites and these jokes that I am making sometimes is part of my culture, please show some sensitivity to my eastern European culture HAHA . Some of us did not reach the level that you are at, we still have tomorrow to try. Wish me luck. 

Oh and I forgot all these universities in North America don't they have some history and role in the slavery times ? When is Yale, Harvard going to pay their fair share, anyone that has a grievance about white privilege should go there and ask for money. Why should I be looked at like I should feel guilty of getting an Honors Mathematics Degree and working hard day and night ? 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Independent1986

[Argus]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

And all that's left are the people who think China created covid to make Trump look bad.

No, all that's left are ordinary people who think most of these shrieking social justice warriors are out of their minds.

[Independent1986]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, all that's left are ordinary people who think most of these shrieking social justice warriors are out of their minds.

You think China created the virus to get back at Trump or he was referring at someone else ? Don't you realize that is the same as the left saying that there are armies of white supremacists at the gates. Sometimes, It is so easy to point at someone's flaws according to us, I just did it with MH, I am flawed :D, but it is very hard to look in the mirror. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Independent1986

[Michael Hardner]

BLM Support 

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Independent1986 said:

... the same as the left saying that there are armies of white supremacists at the gates.

I think 'the left' are unwilling to accept attitudes from older people and the problem comes when natural politics doesn't allow for transition.  Support for gay marriage happened legislatively when public support crossed the 50% threshold in Canada, so it wasn't like we were all social justice warriors.  

Race relations, though, haven't changed much in Canada and the US.  The average person is less racist, yes, but outcomes and history haven't been addressed and that's frustrating to all people.

[Independent1986]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think 'the left' are unwilling to accept attitudes from older people and the problem comes when natural politics doesn't allow for transition.  Support for gay marriage happened legislatively when public support crossed the 50% threshold in Canada, so it wasn't like we were all social justice warriors.  

Race relations, though, haven't changed much in Canada and the US.  The average person is less racist, yes, but outcomes and history haven't been addressed and that's frustrating to all people.

Yes, I agree to the unwilling part, instead of engaging in a conversation with older people and letting them know "Is ok, the world is changing, but it will be ok, here is my position" and you have to say it with an understanding that they come from a different time. I do this with my father all the time and I have noticed during the years by listening and putting seeds in his head he became more open minded and accepting to different issues. That's how you approach a human being, if you step on all his life because you recieve enlightenment in the social study class what do you think they are going to do ? Support your cause or listen to far right wing radio ? 

Ok how do we address it ? In my opinion the big universities, some rich white families from the South that benefited from slavery should start by paying their fair share. And then guilty white rich people should start paying their fair share. 

I, for one, I am not frustrated nor will I pay 1 single cent towards this insanity. Because I refuse, as an individual to be judged by my skin color. I know the struggles of life but if you keep going no matter what the circumstances life will show you opportunities. If you don't want to do that there are lots of statues in the city.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Independent1986

[cougar]

On 6/3/2020 at 6:42 PM, New World Disorder said:

I guess racism can only be against blacks but not indigenous people? Keeping track of who hates who is getting confusing.

It is confusing.

I may dislike black, first nation, East Indian or Chinese people. In the same way I may dislike whites that are too white. 

But those whites would never have any issues with their skin color, taking pride in it.

The blacks and First Nations will always think others consider them inferior because of their color and scream discrimination.

What the Chinese and East Indians think is not that clear but they do not appear to be complaining all that much, finding strength in their numbers.

[dialamah]

33 minutes ago, cougar said:

The blacks and First Nations will always think others consider them inferior because of their color and scream discrimination.

What the Chinese and East Indians think is not that clear but they do not appear to be complaining all that much, finding strength in their numbers.

If what you say is true, it might be worth considering that Asian and South Asian chose to come to North America.  Black people were brought to North America against their will, to be enslaved.  Indigenous people had their land taken, their culture destroyed, their children taken and were forced onto reservations.  Perhaps history does have some influence on how people view their place in society.

[Shady]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

BLM Support 

That will change when people get to know the political platform of the movement.  Like ending capitalism and defunding the police.