Should I Still Vote For Doug Ford?

[Guest ProudConservative]

Sooo... I'm unsure about Doug Ford... He's putting peoples fears ahead of reason. I supported the lockdown, but this is going on 3 months now. I just found out that Ontario is going to extend the state of emergency until June the 2nd.

Why is Doug Ford being a bigger idiot than Kathleen Wynne. I elected him... because he use to bitch about how the Taxpayer was getting ripped off... 

But now he's calling anti lockdown protested a stupid bunch of "yahoo's"

He's like a deer in headlights... to afraid to make a move... while Ontario could be headed for a massive economic depression

What he needs to do... is reopen some businesses... to give people some hope... Then rapidly reopen the economy, if the cases don't explode.

It looks like Doug Ford... like many of our foolish politicians.... is going to fall into the "Cure is worth than the disease" trap. If you're an effective leader... The cure should never be worse than the disease.

So I'm kind of pissed at Doug Ford, for being condescending towards people who are extremely nervous about the economy. What should I do? Give him another chance, or write him off for good?

Edited May 13, 2020 by ProudConservative

[Tdot]

Question for you ... if you really reflect on whatever Doug stands for recently, and it is pro-Dems in the USA plus pro-Trudeau ---and anti-Trump? Well then you can trust ol' Doug wants that lockdown to go for many more months.

[Boges]

Just about everywhere in the developed world did a lockdown. 

Countries like Spain and Italy have had much worse results due to their late reaction. 

Don't vote for DoFo because he did what everyone else did (including Kenney in Alberta). But his response to this has made him much more popular. 

Ontario is now slowly re-opening. Golf Courses this weekend! 

[Guest ProudConservative]

Everyone better elect me, and I'll have Ontario paying down it's debt during the pandemic...  Get ready for austerity MF's

[-1=e^ipi]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Just about everywhere in the developed world did a lockdown. 

Countries like Spain and Italy have had much worse results due to their late reaction.

Not Taiwan, not South Korea, not Sweden.

[Guest ProudConservative]

I think Doug choked or something... Was feeling the heat, so now all he wants to do is be a people pleaser. Well I didn't elect him to be a kiss-ass. I elected him... Hoping he would be a super uptight fiscal-conservative.

So whats the economic damage for covid 19 going to be... If you add up Federal, Provincial, and Municiple debt... Canadians are probably going to be on the hook for 1 Trillion dollars. So that will be something around $50 000 for every working Canadian.

Then you factor in the consequences of high unemployment, and social instability...

Do these idiot politicians not realize that the cure is far worse than the disease?

Can any idiot do math anymore?

Edited May 13, 2020 by ProudConservative

[-1=e^ipi]

Why would Doug Ford showing his true authoritarian colours during this crisis surprise you? He is a populist with no core principles. As long as he gets to be the strongman in charge, bossing people around, he might like the role.

I'm glad I never voted for Ford. I'd spoil my ballot before voting for these terrible politicians.

On the other hand, we get to see the true colours of freedom-loving people, such as Elon Musk, during this crisis.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/elon-musk-tesla-factory-covid.html

Edited May 13, 2020 by -1=e^ipi

[Guest ProudConservative]

1 minute ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Why would Doug Ford showing his true authoritarian colours during this crisis surprise you? He is a populist with no core principles. As long as he gets to be the strongman in charge, bossing people around, he might like the role.

I'm glad I never voted for Ford. I'd spoil my ballot before voting for these terrible politicians.

On the other hand, we get to see the true colours of freedom-loving people, such as Elon Musk, during this crisis.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/elon-musk-tesla-factory-covid.html

I think Doug was on the right track, but then lost his mind.

[Guest ProudConservative]

We should of had an extremely strict lockdown for 3 weeks... Grocery stores and everything closed... No one aloud out of their homes. That I could support

And then open everything back up...so no business goes bankrupt.

These half ass-measures is only treading water.

[scribblet]

Doug Ford has been doing very well, I support him and will accept a lockdown until June 2, but after that...  no...  they have to lift it gradually.

[Guest ProudConservative]

6 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Doug Ford has been doing very well, I support him and will accept a lockdown until June 2, but after that...  no...  they have to lift it gradually.

Lift it gradually??? Do you want the economy to collapse? We need defibrillator, and not the deer in the headlights stare.

Edited May 14, 2020 by ProudConservative

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Not Taiwan, not South Korea, not Sweden.

Also Finland and Norway.

Edited May 14, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Boges]

13 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Not Taiwan, not South Korea, not Sweden.

Did you note the "just about". 

Taiwan and South Korea are very small have easily controllable borders and did testing off the bat. 

Sweden has had a comparably high death toll. Higher, per capita, than the US. But then again they're the land of assisted suicide so perhaps they're fine with it. 

[Boges]

13 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Lift it gradually??? Do you want the economy to collapse? We need defibrillator, and not the deer in the headlights stare.

Do you want 10's of thousands of people dead? 

This is not a black and white scenario. Ford has done this responsibly. 

[Boges]

13 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

We should of had an extremely strict lockdown for 3 weeks... Grocery stores and everything closed... No one aloud out of their homes. That I could support

And then open everything back up...so no business goes bankrupt.

These half ass-measures is only treading water.

It's not about the opening or closing. It's about people feeling it's safe to use these services. 

Who cares if a movie theatre or Gym is open. If I don't feel comfortable using it, it might as well stay closed. 

I'm already considering cancelling my Gym membership when/if it re-opens because I'd rather work out at home then deal with lines and masks at my Gym. 

[Shady]

21 hours ago, Boges said:

Just about everywhere in the developed world did a lockdown. 

Countries like Spain and Italy have had much worse results due to their late reaction. 

Don't vote for DoFo because he did what everyone else did (including Kenney in Alberta). But his response to this has made him much more popular. 

Ontario is now slowly re-opening. Golf Courses this weekend! 

Complete nonsense.  Spain and especially Italy started reacting sooner than we did.  However, they were infected earlier than most, before the extent of the virus was known.  There are variations of lockdowns.  But Sweden has set the right example, mitigation and distancing without closing everything.  They're protecting the older and high risk, but letting younger healthier people work, etc.  As a result they'll soon be at herd immunity.  They'll be laughing in the fall and winter while the rest of us are locked down again, over and over.  The World Health Organization is now recommending Sweden as the example for how to handle things.

[Boges]

12 minutes ago, Shady said:

Complete nonsense.  Spain and especially Italy started reacting sooner than we did.  However, they were infected earlier than most, before the extent of the virus was known.  There are variations of lockdowns.  But Sweden has set the right example, mitigation and distancing without closing everything.  They're protecting the older and high risk, but letting younger healthier people work, etc.  As a result they'll soon be at herd immunity.  They'll be laughing in the fall and winter while the rest of us are locked down again, over and over.  The World Health Organization is now recommending Sweden as the example for how to handle things.

Spain and Italy acted once their healthcare system was collapsing. Which is why, today they're seeing hundreds of new deaths. 

Sweden also has more death than most places. It's a country smaller in population and size to Ontario yet has more cases, deaths and is testing much less. 

I like how Conservatives look to Sweden's willingness to see more death yet ignore the fact that Sweden is extraordinarily socialist. 

Are they so much farther ahead economically?  I guess we'll see. 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Boges

[-1=e^ipi]

10 hours ago, Boges said:

Did you note the "just about". 

Taiwan and South Korea are very small have easily controllable borders and did testing off the bat. 

Sweden has had a comparably high death toll. Higher, per capita, than the US. But then again they're the land of assisted suicide so perhaps they're fine with it. 

US corona virus death rate: 2.6 per 10,000
Sweden: 3.4 per 10,000
Quebec: 3.9 per 10,000

[Boges]

13 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

US corona virus death rate: 2.6 per 10,000
Sweden: 3.4 per 10,000
Quebec: 3.9 per 10,000

That's isolating a statistic to make an irrelevant point. You could say the same about New York, who like Italy and Spain, were forced to shut down because of the near collapse of their healthcare system. 

Quebec has about half of Canada's cases and deaths. And ironically is opening faster than communities like Ontario who saw much less death. 

[-1=e^ipi]

Sweden is a more densely populated country. It is easier to spread diseases in densely populated areas.

[Mighty AC]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:43 PM, -1=e^ipi said:

Sweden is a more densely populated country. It is easier to spread diseases in densely populated areas.

Maybe it would have been more intelligent to restrict movement in Sweden then.

[OftenWrong]

9 hours ago, Mighty AC said:

Maybe it would have been more intelligent to restrict movement in Sweden then.

What are you people actually going on about? The virus is essentially over in Sweden, and they did not commit socio-economic suicide in doing so. The deaths counted in the last 4 days have been 17, 3, 35 and 23. Total deaths about 4700, roughly half of Canada. Canada is still a ways off from seeing these consistent lows.

ETA: Now I see it's also off topic. This is about re-electing DoFo. Sorry Mod.

Edited June 10, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Boges]

17 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

What are you people actually going on about? The virus is essentially over in Sweden, and they did not commit socio-economic suicide in doing so. The deaths counted in the last 4 days have been 17, 3, 35 and 23. Total deaths about 4700, roughly half of Canada. Canada is still a ways off from seeing these consistent lows.

ETA: Now I see it's also off topic. This is about re-electing DoFo. Sorry Mod.

It's actually more than half of Canada's death toll at less than a third of the population.

Sweden also lags in testing. 

Ontario has been 100% up front about how much testing has been done, the demographics of who's got the disease and the most important that, how many people have been hospitalized. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

Moved

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

That simply does not move me. Damage is counted in many ways, not just the statistical difference on dead bodies. The variance you indicate is not huge, and well within certain errors so it can't be compared by those simple analysis alone. You know that, you've stated the issues such as density yourself.

Sorry, it does not justify shutting everything down.

What about the death tolls seen in countries that were forced to shut down? The Shutdown was an effort to avert similar healthcare disasters seen in Italy and Spain. 

Sweden may have faired well at planning but they still saw a higher death toll than most countries and as this article shows, their economy might not have been spared afterall. 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/sweden-didn-t-lock-down-but-economy-to-plunge-anyway-1.4973195

Quote

 

Meanwhile, consumption plunged by 24.8 per cent between March 11 and April 5, according to a study conducted by four University of Copenhagen economists.

"Sweden is paying the same price (as Denmark) for the coronavirus pandemic. The explanation is that when you are in a galloping crisis, consumers pull the emergency brake, whether restaurants are closed or not," Niels Johannesen, one of the four economists, told Swedish daily Helsingborgs Dagblad.

The government in mid-March announced measures worth nearly $32 billion to help businesses.

 

Just because restaurants are open, doesn't mean people will go. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Boges