Argus Posted May 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Rue said: It won't be permanent. Oh well then. If you say so. You didn't answer the question. What do you think the government would do illicitly with such tracking data, and how do you imagine they could justify it past an epidemic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: The immediate danger wouldn't be be that it ,specifically, becomes permanent - only that increased surveillance become circumstantially acceptable for the future. Modern Big Brother is incremental. In a democratic country that would require that we all accept that. Which I don't see happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) Without a doubt the most moronic thread on the board in a while. Please continue. Not one of you state totalitarians have provided anything but your subjective desire to control all of us because you believe a virus justifies it. You show a complete ignorance of history and how easy it us for some of you to turn into dickhead fascists without a damn thought given to the implications of your trite comments. Edited May 10, 2020 by Rue 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said: The immediate danger wouldn't be be that it ,specifically, becomes permanent - only that increased surveillance become circumstantially acceptable for the future. Modern Big Brother is incremental. Just turn the Telescreens around then. How hard can it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Argus said: South Korea's population, on the other hand, exceeds ours, and it is doing vastly better than us with 5 deaths per million vs our 96. And it has a mandatory tracking app. It isn't one size fits all. South Korea took precautions after MERS. They were ready for the ChiComm. For example, I believe they shut the borders early and were quick with tests as they had the structure in place and ready. If you're recommending that would be a model to follow for next time I won't argue with you. I don't want Big Brother in my webcam someday though. Edited May 10, 2020 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, New World Disorder said: What will you say when one of these tracking apps is mandatory? How much are you willing to give before you say no? I'll get them to buy me a phone. Paying taxes is mandatory. I don't like those either, but it is for the best. What do you think they will do when they know how often you go to Walmart? Oh wait, they already do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just now, Rue said: Not one of you state totalitarians have provided anything but your subjective desire to control all of us because you believe a virus justifies it. Sure we have, South Korea. They contact trace thru phones, bank cards and CCT. They anonymize the data and make it known to everyone what has been recorded. The key is to build public trust by ensuring the monitoring works both ways. Just turn the Telescreens around. How hard can it be? As I pointed out in another thread on the topic South Koreans have a healthier relationship with their betters that we should also try to emulate. Remember that airline execs daughter who was caught on camera bad-mouthing the help? The poor woman was walking around with her head hung low in public shame for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: I don't want Big Brother in my webcam someday though. How are you ever going to keep an eye on Him then? Edited May 10, 2020 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just now, Infidel Dog said: It isn't one size fits all. South Korea took precautions after MERS. They were ready for it. For example, I believe they shut the borders early and were quick with tests as they had the structure in place and ready. Good point....many western nations resisted such basic measures as intrusive and unwarranted until after the fact of imported and community spread. Citizens are not 100% compliant even with basic public health measures during this pandemic. It is false hope to rely on the efficacy of such technology, compliance, ownership, and enforcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just now, eyeball said: How are you ever going to keep an eye Him then? The eye of Big Brother only goes one way. You don't watch it. It watches you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rue said: Is that supposed to be an answer ? It very clearly was an answer. It answered your question about whether or not issues were apparent, and went on to suggest they were of little consequence given the situation, and the current lack of privacy people seem perfectly okay with anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Argus said: You didn't answer the question. What do you think the government would do illicitly with such tracking data, and how do you imagine they could justify it past an epidemic? Excuse me you started a thread claiming you are going to make a case for state surveillance of everyone then never did. Now you ask me to explain to you why there is no concern about the state having total authority over me? Lol. Argus you come on the board, make a sweeping statement asking for a totalitarian state control over people and you now ask me to spell out what the problem is? Yoh can not justify what you started..now you want me to explain how state control can be abusive? No. It ends hear. I do not nor should anyone else have to explain to anyone the dangers of state control. What I would love to do at this point is stick a loaded weapon in your face and ask you to explain to me why that is a dangerous thing to do. I can't. So I will walk away. You can be a smug bastard Argus. Good people died to prevent what you ask for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) There are apps that can provide metadata to governments and the public about numbers and rough locations of recently confirmed cases without providing the name and exact locations of individuals. Also, the user can receive alerts when coming near or in contact with other recent positives. It can alert the user when it’s advisable to be tested. That’s about as much surveillance as I think it’s reasonable to expect. Even then the use of such an app should be promoted but not mandated. We also have to be careful not to create a two-tier society where those with immunity get maximum freedom. I don’t even think masks should be made mandatory, unless social distancing isn’t possible. Basically we recommend masks and make them available to all government employees and private businesses. We set up firm social distancing rules and capacity limits then get back to work and watch the numbers of cases. As long as we don’t overwhelm the health system and we have the PPE we require and promote, we continue down that road until either an effective treatment or vaccine comes along, or we reach herd immunity. When new cases arise, we isolate, contact trace, do our limited local closures, and get back to business. We have to have a good testing capacity and contact tracing capacity for this and test people before they return to the workplace. Planning and implementing this will take weeks at least, so we might as well get on with it so there’s still a workplace to revisit. Edited May 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: The eye of Big Brother only goes one way. You don't watch it. It watches you. A defeatist attitude is what tyranny really thrives on most. You've given up before even trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Rue said: Without a doubt the most moronic thread on the board in a while. Please continue. Not one of you state totalitarians have provided anything but your subjective desire to control all of us because you believe a virus justifies it. You show a complete ignorance of history and how easy it us for some of you to turn into dickhead fascists without a damn thought given to the implications of your trite comments. How does it feel to have the most moronic post in the most moronic thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Rue said: Excuse me you started a thread claiming you are going to make a case for state surveillance of everyone then never did. The case is to prevent illness and save lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bcsapper said: It very clearly was an answer. It answered your question about whether or not issues were apparent, and went on to suggest they were of little consequence given the situation, and the current lack of privacy people seem perfectly okay with anyway. You are another smug bastard. Its easy to come on a forum and call for state surveillance..you never lived in a totalitarian state and you take the freedom you want to give up for granted. The sad thing is you have no clue just how smug you and Argus and those calling for state surveillance sound. Go on line up and get tagged. Get a number tattooed into your arm. Go on lecture me how a permanent tattoo on your arm is a great thing. Please continue to tell me. How about in public we also require people you find undesireable wear red arm bands. Go on continue. Edited May 10, 2020 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just now, eyeball said: The case is to prevent illness and save lives. Not good enough....make the case in legislative process and constitutional frameworks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, eyeball said: A defeatist attitude is what tyranny really thrives on most. You've given up before even trying. What does that mean...people who do not want to give the state the right to surveille them are defeatist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: The eye of Big Brother only goes one way. You don't watch it. It watches you. Honestly, do you really think they are watching you? Specifically? What for? Amazon and Google are. Apple, Walmart and Home Depot are. Big brother doesn't give a shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rue said: You are another smug bastard. Its easy to come on a forum and call for state surveillance..you never lived in a totalitarian state and you take the freedom you want to give up for granted. The sad thingbisvyoubhave no clue just how smug you and Argus and those calling for state surveillance sound. Go on line up and get tagged. Get a number tattooed into your arm. Go on lecture me how a permanent tattoo on your arm is a great thing. Please continue to tell me. How aboutin public we also require people you find undesireable wear red arm bands. Go on continue. You read my moron answer before responding to this post, didn't you? Paranoid twit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Not good enough....make the case in legislative process and constitutional frameworks. I did that years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, eyeball said: A defeatist attitude is what tyranny really thrives on most. You've given up before even trying. "A defeatist attitude?" Is that what you call it? I call it paying attention to the lessons history tries to teach us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rue said: What does that mean...people who do not want to give the state the right to surveille them are defeatist? No, people who believe in their own powerlessness give the state the opportunity to do whatever they want. There are billions of us and a mere handful of them. Grow a spine and get in their face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 10, 2020 Report Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Not good enough....make the case in legislative process and constitutional frameworks. Once again the only Yank on gh 5 minutes ago, eyeball said: The case is to prevent illness and save lives. That is not a case. It's an assumption. Prove therexare no other equally as effective measures. Yoh have not proven anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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