Patriotism of Canadians towards America ?!

[Independent1986]

Good afternoon, will like this topic to discuss why is it that some Canadians (many on this forum) tend to confuse their patriotism with the USA. This is not only about Trump or liberals/conservatives.

I remember when Harper was PM here and Obama was president in the USA lots of members from the left wing were talking like they were living south of the border. Now you have the right wing with Trudeau PM here and Trump president.

Looking to hear your opinions on this great Monday.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Independent1986

[Argus]

They're idiots?

I admit being puzzled by it. I understand the lefties being thrilled by Obama. He was tall and handsome educated and intelligent, capable of giving exciting speeches, and, of course, interracial. The progressives were ecstatic. He represented everything they wanted. And meanwhile in Canada they had Darth Vader, aka Stephen Harper, who had all the charisma of a telephone pole, and who they had somehow convinced themselves was a vicious far right conservative despite running a basically centrist govenrment.

Now the right in Canada is in distress. The Tories picked a complete dude last time around, a man with rosy cheeks and a continuous smile who couldn't manage to even explain, let alone defend his own social views, and who ran a campaign with a platform which had no conservative policies. Now the likely replacements are bickering over which most supports transgender rights. Neither is inspiring. Neither gives any evidence of strength or intellect or vision or leadership qualities. They certainly won't advocate or defend conservative policy views. Instead they're more likely to turn the Conservative Party back in time to the Progressive Conservatives - liberal light. The PCs were a party without ideological views, or indeed, any values whatever. They were a polling company which ran candidates and offered policies based on whatever it was they thought people would vote for.

For all his flaws, and they are so massive as to defy description, Trump at least pretends to advocate for conservative views. He yells and sneers at liberals, dismissing and insulting them as if he were a strong man (which, of course, he is not). He opposes basic progressive orthodoxy on everything and drives the left batty.

And I think the Right in both Canada and the US have developed a hatred for the Left based on long demonstrated contempt the Left has shown towards them. It's certainly true that progressives have control of the national agenda and the national message. To the point where anyone who opposes gay marriage or abortion or transgender rights, or immigration or multiculturalism (for example) is derided, insulted and treated as if they were basically an illegitimate person, who should have no rights. People who express such beliefs have been doxxed, had their employers repeatedly contacted to try to fire them, been de-platformed, fired, and harassed. The situation in this country is you can express any view, as far to the Left as you care to, without anyone caring or denying your rights or insulting you or firing you. The most hard-line Communist is perfectly safe from retribution. But even moderately socially conservative people face harassment or firing if they express their views publicly. Likewise a 'racialized' person can express however much contempt for the 'settlers' or 'oppressors' with impunity, but anyone who dares argue with them risks being banned on the internet, or fired in real life.

All of which leads to a certain amount of anger. And anger leads to irrational behaviour. Like being a Trump supporter.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

Good afternoon, will like this topic to discuss why is it that some Canadians (many on this forum) tend to confuse their patriotism with the USA. This is not only about Trump or liberals/conservatives.

It's pretty much strictly about conservatives and Canadians who are far more patriotic to ideology which in the States is beyond any doubt considerably more conservative than Canada.  You'll hear tons of grumbling about Canada's awful socialist tendencies, high taxes, rotten health system and empty threats about taking their money and leaving but much to our pity they're still here. I think they believe they're being patriotic to Canada but I hope the door slams them in the ass on their way out.

My brother has lived in Seattle for almost 20 years. A lefty thru and thru, the high-tech sector drew him there and predictably he met a girl, married and has a son.  My brother and I agree virtually all of America's shortcomings relate to how ridiculously partisan the US is and he wishes it could be a lot more like Canada.

I don't recall ever hearing a liberal grumble like this or wish they could be American.  I've admired the ability that individual States have to manage their own fisheries but our provincial inability to do so is a quirk of our Confederation which has to do with governance and nothing to do with ideology. That said, I would have little problem myself with separating BC from Canada and joining along with California, Oregon, Washington and Alaska in a new country called Cascadia.

I think Argus is correct to point out how deeply the left is disgusted with the right and I suspect Trump is exactly why Canada's conservatives are in the distress Argus speaks of.  The path to enlightenment is painful and I've been pointing out for years that Trump is exactly what was required so the the world would learn what it doesn't need and more to the point why.  So...go Trump go...four more years should just about do it.

[bush_cheney2004]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's pretty much strictly about conservatives and Canadians who are far more patriotic to ideology which in the States is beyond any doubt considerably more conservative than Canada.  You'll hear tons of grumbling about Canada's awful socialist tendencies, high taxes, rotten health system and empty threats about taking their money and leaving but much to our pity they're still here. I think they believe they're being patriotic to Canada but I hope the door slams them in the ass on their way out.

 

Not so strictly, as the left and "progressives" in Canada have also imported and adopted ideology from the "States" from LGBTQ rights, pride parades, symbolism, LEAP manifesto,  disability rights, racism, animal rights, etc.   Many high profile Canadian "celebrities" have moved to the "States" for a variety of reasons, including those with leftist ideologies.

[Argus]

43 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Not so strictly, as the left and "progressives" in Canada have also imported and adopted ideology from the "States" from LGBTQ rights, pride parades, symbolism, LEAP manifesto,  disability rights, racism, animal rights, etc.  

Probably because we are inundated with US news by our shitty TV networks, which buy it cheap and then show it rather than paying for their own reporters and cameramen. Personally I see no American politician I would want to support. There are a few in the UK that I like, though, but our media unfortunately spends little time on UK news.

[eyeball]

42 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Not so strictly, as the left and "progressives" in Canada have also imported and adopted ideology from the "States" from LGBTQ rights, pride parades, symbolism, LEAP manifesto,  disability rights, racism, animal rights, etc.  

There's no ideology being imported, there's simply universal rights being recognized universally.

And what do human rights have to do with ideology? Nothing until conservatives stand in the way, hence the main source of left wing disgust.

[eyeball]

31 minutes ago, Argus said:

Probably because we are inundated with US news by our shitty TV networks, which buy it cheap and then show it rather than paying for their own reporters and cameramen.

Maybe it's just you that's inundated. Our networks seem just fine and appear to have their own reporters and cameras and everything. Then there's all sorts of international channels to choose from.  I think Canadians have a far more cosmopolitan perspective than you're allowing for but like I said maybe you're limiting yourself to one or two inundated channels and as such your perspective is too.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

There's no ideology being imported, there's simply universal rights being recognized universally.

And what do human rights have to do with ideology? Nothing until conservatives stand in the way, hence the main source of left wing disgust.

 

So it is is "universal rights" when the left does it, but con ideology when the right does it ?    Got it.

Canadians choked on the aggressive Black Lives Matter tactics and ideology...imported directly from the United States of America.

The "American-style" haters are front loaded against the right, but lovingly embraced by the left in Canada.

Edited May 5, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Probably because we are inundated with US news by our shitty TV networks, which buy it cheap and then show it rather than paying for their own reporters and cameramen. Personally I see no American politician I would want to support. There are a few in the UK that I like, though, but our media unfortunately spends little time on UK news.

 

If only it was that simple....Canadians have routinely crossed the U.S. border to protest, march, and actively participate in U.S. election campaigns and activism even though they cannot vote in America.   15% of CBC polled Canadians wanted to give up their domestic vote in order to vote for Barack Obama in 2008.

Edited May 5, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So it is is "universal rights" when the left does it, but con ideology when the right does it ?

No, I said human rights become ideological when conservatives stand against them, which is universally almost always wherever you go and probably even thru all of space and time.  I expect cephalopods on the other side of the universe have the very same issue to deal with.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

No, I said human rights become ideological when conservatives stand against them, which is universally almost always wherever you go and probably even thru all of space and time.  I expect cephalopods on the other side of the universe have the very same issue to deal with.

 

They become ideological no matter which "side" does it.    And Canada imports a lot of it from United States' media, universities, activist groups, and other rights agendas.   

[eyeball]

36 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

And Canada imports a lot of it from United States' media, universities, activist groups, and other rights agendas.   

No. Like much of the world Canada simply recognizes most of it at the same time you do.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, eyeball said:

No. Like much of the world Canada simply recognizes most of it at the same time you do.

 

Canada simply recognizes the obvious went it is spoon fed by American media.  

I have socks that are older than Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms (1982).

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

They become ideological no matter which "side" does it.

As much as conservatives might like to think everything is ideological being human isn't.

[eyeball]

52 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I have socks that are older than Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms (1982).

Yes, I understand the need to have the last word along with the first, a right peculiar to Americans that's also recognized universally .

Edited May 5, 2020 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

As much as conservatives might like to think everything is ideological being human isn't.

 

Wrong again....many "progressives" believe it too.    They believe their own gods same as the conservatives.

[Independent1986]

@eyeball

You are generalizing on all conservatives based on your personal experiences, we all do, for example I could not sleep all night because my neighbor (happens to be a left winger with blue hair lol) who got laid off from his job and got that government assistance was playing video games & swearing and here I am at 6:30 am in the morning trying to work, produce and provide a service to my customers.

I can easily say: "you see what socialism does to this country, the liberals should be left broke in the street to use a food bank" but that would be painting everyone with the same brush.

Lots of people that got that help and need it, I did too in the past for different circumstances. It was so funny because when I wanted to pay them back is like they did not want the money. Something tells me this guy won't be here for long, rent is expensive in Toronto and no matter what the communists on top say to not pay your rent at the end is all about economics and private property.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Independent1986

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

 

You are generalizing on all conservatives based on your personal experiences

Perhaps you could point to a similarly disgruntled bunch of progressives forever pining away about not being Americans to better demonstrate that I'm just generalizing.

[Argus]

19 hours ago, eyeball said:

Maybe it's just you that's inundated. Our networks seem just fine and appear to have their own reporters and cameras and everything. Then there's all sorts of international channels to choose from.  I think Canadians have a far more cosmopolitan perspective than you're allowing for but like I said maybe you're limiting yourself to one or two inundated channels and as such your perspective is too.

Aside from all the interviews with people in their living rooms about the virus lately, which is mostly all they show, the CBC shows more American news than Canadian news. So does CTV. It has for years. Every time Trump farts the CBC covers it live. I see more on the CBC about floods and fires and storms in the US than I do in Canada.

[Argus]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, I said human rights become ideological when conservatives stand against them, which is universally almost always wherever you go and probably even thru all of space and time.  I expect cephalopods on the other side of the universe have the very same issue to deal with.

Do you regard it as a universal right for a man to claim he's a woman and then compete with real women in sporting events?

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, Argus said:

Aside from all the interviews with people in their living rooms about the virus lately, which is mostly all they show, the CBC shows more American news than Canadian news. So does CTV. It has for years. Every time Trump farts the CBC covers it live. I see more on the CBC about floods and fires and storms in the US than I do in Canada.

There's still BBC, Euronews, CTV.... I have at least 15 more to choose from. Don't tell BC_2007 but almost all of the them report what happened in the US that day too.

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Argus said:

Do you regard it as a universal right for a man to claim he's a woman and then compete with real women in sporting events?

No I think that's pretty ridiculous actually. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Do you regard it as a universal right for a man to claim he's a woman and then compete with real women in sporting events?

Happened to see a documentary on that just yesterday.  Turns out that when hormonal therapy kicks in, M2F transitioned people perform at female levels, not male levels.  So, this is just conservative scare-mything. 

[Argus]

31 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Happened to see a documentary on that just yesterday.  Turns out that when hormonal therapy kicks in, M2F transitioned people perform at female levels, not male levels.  So, this is just conservative scare-mything. 

Yeah, bullshit. You build up a weight of muscle and bone when you're a male and it doesn't all disappear overnight - or at all, because you start taking drugs. Not to mention there is no requirement for a 'transgender' person to take any drugs at all.

Biological males, allowed to play as transgender women in the United Kingdom, are ruining the amateur sport of rugby, according to women referees who are quitting the sport in droves. The referees say the biological males are injuring female players and refs are afraid of being sued.

https://metrovoicenews.com/broken-bones-uk-rugby-referees-quitting-after-bearded-transgender-players-injure-women/

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

Guess which is transgender.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Argus