Doug Ford and Covid 19

[Boges]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It’s not just about having to show your papers to go into a restaurant or eat in a food court. It’s the economy, stupid. Plus the social harms brought about by widespread shutdowns. Students learning from home, but not learning. Families separated by artificial borders, not allowed to say goodbye to a loved one in the hospital, or grieve at their funeral. It’s inhumane.

The full impact of this is not realized, and the pandemic is not over yet. That should be obvious to everyone by now.

Yeah it's much better to have a brand new deadly virus to go unchecked. 

Most have moved on with their lives. But it's telling that you're still stewing in your corner. It's a good look for you actually. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Boges

[Boges]

Very optimistic look at the situation in Ontario from its top Doc. 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/dr-kieran-moore-the-cautious-approach-to-lifting-covid-measures-is-paying-off-for-ontario

Quote

This plan follows the province’s decision in August to pause any further reopening as Ontario adjusted its response in the face of the Delta-driven fourth wave. We can be confident that the decision to do so was the right call. As a result of our cautious approach, Ontario’s hospital capacity remains stable and the province continues to report one of the lowest rates of active cases in the country, well below the national average. In fact, we have trended toward or below the best-case scenario projected by expert modellers.

 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Yeah it's much better to have a brand new deadly virus to go unchecked. 

Most have moved on with their lives. But it's telling that you're still stewing in your corner. It's a good look for you actually. 

You like to make this about me, but its nothing to do with me.

What’s telling is your dismissive attitude. It reflects the groupthink of the left.

[Boges]

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

You like to make this about me, but its nothing to do with me.

What’s telling is your dismissive attitude. It reflects the groupthink of the left.

You'd think if more thought like you, the PPC would have done better in September. 

[Goddess]

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The full impact of this is not realized, and the pandemic is not over yet. That should be obvious to everyone by now.

I was watching an interview with a pediatrician/scientist who has started testing IQs in toddlers born just before all this and shortly after.  He has found that they have lost an average of 20 IQ points - from lack of socialization, lack of seeing faces, lack of interaction.

Likely will affect their learning abilities when (and if) they start school.

[Boges]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I was watching an interview with a pediatrician/scientist who has started testing IQs in toddlers born just before all this and shortly after.  He has found that they have lost an average of 20 IQ points - from lack of socialization, lack of seeing faces, lack of interaction.

Likely will affect their learning abilities when (and if) they start school.

2 year olds? Why are people checking the IQ of a 2-year-old? 

Only in the early few months of the pandemic where parks and social gatherings outdoors banned. 

For the past year, there's been ample opportunity for children to be socialized. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I was watching an interview with a pediatrician/scientist who has started testing IQs in toddlers born just before all this and shortly after.  He has found that they have lost an average of 20 IQ points - from lack of socialization, lack of seeing faces, lack of interaction.

Likely will affect their learning abilities when (and if) they start school.

That's bullshit, plain and simple.  It's not like the kids haven't seen anyone, and most kids hang out with their parents 99% of the time till at least the age of two, anyway.  Even if these kids never saw anyone but their parents for a few weeks or months, that's plenty enough "socialization" for a baby.  Only if a child was kept completely isolated - as in kept in a closet, or kept in a crib in the bedroom for years would their IQ be affected.

The doctor, if they are a doctor, is a quack, and you're a fool for believing them.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

That's bullshit, plain and simple.  It's not like the kids haven't seen anyone, and most kids hang out with their parents 99% of the time till at least the age of two, anyway.  Even if these kids never saw anyone but their parents for a few weeks or months, that's plenty enough "socialization" for a baby.  Only if a child was kept completely isolated - as in kept in a closet, or kept in a crib in the bedroom for years would their IQ be affected.

The doctor, if they are a doctor, is a quack, and you're a fool for believing them.

You're a pediatrician?

Wow, I had no idea.

You should be somewhere in authority, you know soooooo much more than any of these professionals.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

You're a pediatrician?

Wow, I had no idea.

You should be somewhere in authority, you know soooooo much more than any of these professionals.

You seem to think you know more than most of the world's scientists, medical researchers, doctors and nurses.  

Anyway, simple common sense would tell anyone that a baby isolated with their parents is not going to develop an IQ deficit in a few weeks or even months.  It's ludicrous to even think so.  Children don't develop cognitive issues unless they are isolated from almost any human contact; such children also tend to starved, left in their own waste and suffer a lot of physical abuse when they do get contact with parents.  

You posted an anecdote about some mom whose child had sniffles, but didn't get her checked for Covid because "this hysteria has to stop" and how you couldn't agree more.  Perhaps you could follow that advice too, and stop the hysteria about lockdowns, restrictions and vaccines.  

[Goddess]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You seem to think you know more than most of the world's scientists, medical researchers, doctors and nurses.  

Anyway, simple common sense would tell anyone that a baby isolated with their parents is not going to develop an IQ deficit in a few weeks or even months.  It's ludicrous to even think so.  Children don't develop cognitive issues unless they are isolated from almost any human contact;  

You posted an anecdote about some mom whose child had sniffles, but didn't get her checked for Covid because "this hysteria has to stop" and how you couldn't agree more.  Perhaps you could follow that advice too, and stop the hysteria about lockdowns, restrictions and vaccines.  

It's not weeks or months - it's years now.  Simple common sense should tell you those are the formative years for children.

I'm not the one hysterical about lockdowns, restrictions and vaccines - you are.

Pretty sure the people who just want to be left alone are not the extremists here - it's you.

[Goddess]

19 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You seem to think you know more than most of the world's scientists, medical researchers, doctors and nurses.  

Anyway, simple common sense would tell anyone that a baby isolated with their parents is not going to develop an IQ deficit in a few weeks or even months.  It's ludicrous to even think so.  Children don't develop cognitive issues unless they are isolated from almost any human contact;  

You posted an anecdote about some mom whose child had sniffles, but didn't get her checked for Covid because "this hysteria has to stop" and how you couldn't agree more.  Perhaps you could follow that advice too, and stop the hysteria about lockdowns, restrictions and vaccines.  

Toronto students told not to talk at lunch to reduce the spread of COVID-19 | CTV News

Kids asked not to yell ‘trick-or-treat’ as part of Quebec’s pandemic Halloween rules | Globalnews.ca

This is the hysteria you promote.

 

[OftenWrong]

32 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Toronto students told not to talk at lunch to reduce the spread of COVID-19 | CTV News

Kids asked not to yell ‘trick-or-treat’ as part of Quebec’s pandemic Halloween rules | Globalnews.ca

This is the hysteria you promote.

 

Thanks. It's this kind of absurdity that shows how insane the virus fanatics are.

The road to hell, etc.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Thanks. It's this kind of absurdity that shows how insane the virus fanatics are.

The road to hell, etc.

And none of this would be an issue if we actually had a vaccine that worked.

The only reason all these ones are in hysterics is because they know - it doesn't work.

[dialamah]

16 hours ago, Goddess said:

Toronto students told not to talk at lunch to reduce the spread of COVID-19 | CTV News

Kids asked not to yell ‘trick-or-treat’ as part of Quebec’s pandemic Halloween rules | Globalnews.ca

This is the hysteria you promote.

 

I think those things are stupid too, as a matter of fact.  I also think that making very young children wear masks is also pointless.

But disagreeing with some of the things health authorities think is a good idea doesn't mean I have to accept every crackpot idea that is put out there to 'prove' that vaccines are dangerous or that the disease isn't really all that serious because "mostly old people die".  Old people matter too; they have people who love them, rely on them, who want them to live.  Just because you don't have anyone like that in your life, doesn't give you the right to dismiss them as unimportant.

The pandemic is real; people have died despite efforts to slow it's spread.  Left to spread on it's own with no attempt at mitigation, a lot more people would have died.  That's not "hysteria", that's fact.  Vaccines reduce the spread even more, make a lot more people able to resist the disease, and fewer people die; that's also fact.

In contrast, your hysteria is based on nothing more than disinformation.  That's true hysteria and would result in a lot more deaths, if it was the attitude of those in charge.  That's what Kenney found out earlier this year when he lifted all restrictions.

[Accountability Now]

@Boges

How is that vaccine passport idea working out? Keeping everyone safe from those heathen, unclean antivaxxers?

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/fully-vaccinated-ontario-man-dies-after-covid-19-sweeps-through-his-hockey-league-1.5642770

 

Quote

 

A fully vaccinated Ontario man has died after a COVID-19 outbreak swept through his adult hockey league. 

Oro-Medonte father-of-three Garry Weston died last week after suffering a severe stroke while fighting pneumonia caused by COVID-19, his family says.

His daughter, Amber Weston-Campbell, said the 75-year-old contracted the disease in late September while playing in his three-on-three hockey league in Newmarket for the first time in 18 months.

There were 15 COVID-19 cases linked to the hockey league and all were breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated people, officials in York Region said. 

 

Quote

“How did we all get this transmitted to each other?" Dunn said. "We were all double-vaccinated, we went into the rink showing our proof of double vaccination, with our masks on."

 

The vaccine passport's only job was to incentivize people in getting the jab. It is clear that once vaccine uptake plateaus, these draconian measures are no longer needed.  

 

[Boges]

48 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

@Boges

How is that vaccine passport idea working out? Keeping everyone safe from those heathen, unclean antivaxxers?

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/fully-vaccinated-ontario-man-dies-after-covid-19-sweeps-through-his-hockey-league-1.5642770

The vaccine passport's only job was to incentivize people in getting the jab. It is clear that once vaccine uptake plateaus, these draconian measures are no longer needed.  

All the people in this league were 50+. The man who died was 75. As you age your immune system goes down regardless. So even the vaccine is less effective. 

From your linked article. 

Quote

According to Weston's best friend of 50 years, the other 14 people who tested positive in the hockey league had minor symptoms. 

All presumably in vulnerable groups as well.  

Numbers continue to drop in Ontario. Even as the weather cools down and people move activities indoors. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Boges

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I think those things are stupid too, as a matter of fact.  I also think that making very young children wear masks is also pointless.

I think making them wear them, and instilling fear of everything is more than just pointless.  It's damaging to young children.  Your hysteria feeds into these nonsense rules.  Please.  Knock it off.

 

Quote

But disagreeing with some of the things health authorities think is a good idea doesn't mean I have to accept every crackpot idea that is put out there to 'prove' that vaccines are dangerous or that the disease isn't really all that serious because "mostly old people die".  Old people matter too; they have people who love them, rely on them, who want them to live.  Just because you don't have anyone like that in your life, doesn't give you the right to dismiss them as unimportant.

The interview with the pediatrician/scientist had absolutely nothing to do with vaccine efficacy or anything else.  It was a straight forward study on what isolation is doing to young children.

Yes, old people matter.  No one has said otherwise.  They are, however, more susceptible to flus and pneumonias. Demanding young people risk the adverse side effects of a vax that in no way benefits them, is selfish in the extreme.  Never before has the elderly population demanded that young people risk heart attacks and death to "save" them from flu season.  If the vax worked, then they would have nothing to fear.  

 

Quote

The pandemic is real; people have died despite efforts to slow it's spread.  Left to spread on it's own with no attempt at mitigation, a lot more people would have died.  That's not "hysteria", that's fact.  Vaccines reduce the spread even more, make a lot more people able to resist the disease, and fewer people die; that's also fact.

Covid is real.  It's a bit worse than the seasonal flu.  There are lots of ways to stay healthy and avoid the flu/covid.

There are enough studies to show that mass vaccinations, especially forced ones during a pandemic is a really bad idea.

Vaccines are not really reducing much - as shown by the large numbers of vaxxed people getting covid, spreading covid and dying from covid.

If your vaccine worked, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Wakey Wakey - it doesn't do what it's supposed to do - no surprise to all the scientist, immunologists and biologists who said this from the beginning.

 

 

Quote

In contrast, your hysteria is based on nothing more than disinformation.  That's true hysteria and would result in a lot more deaths, if it was the attitude of those in charge.  That's what Kenney found out earlier this year when he lifted all restrictions.

Again, the people who just want to be left alone are not the extremists.  The people who just want to be left alone are not the hysterical ones.

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

All the people in this league were 50+. The man who died was 75. As you age your immune system goes down regardless. So even the vaccine is less effective.

Funny how before the vaccine, the age of those dying was to be ignored, but now we are to consider that as a factor in the vaccine's uselessness.

[dialamah]

18 hours ago, Goddess said:

1.  It's not weeks or months - it's years now.  Simple common sense should tell you those are the formative years for children.

2. I'm not the one hysterical about lockdowns, restrictions and vaccines - you are.

3.  Pretty sure the people who just want to be left alone are not the extremists here - it's you.

1. And people have NOT been confined to their homes continuously for that length of time.  My colleague's kids had online learning for about 3 months, then they were back at school.  Daycare didn't even shut down.  And if other jurisdictions did it differently, it still hasn't been for years, just a few months.

2.  You are the one screaming about "20 IQ points lost in children" due to a situation that never happened, about camps and Nazis and Jews, posting random claims from Twitter, and from sources with little or no expertise and people wife been proven outright liars.  That's hysteria.   

3.  You are being left alone - but you don't like it and are weeping copious tears and organizing protests because you think it's unfair to be required to take an action that benefits everybody.

 

 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Funny how before the vaccine, the age of those dying was to be ignored, but now we are to consider that as a factor in the vaccine's uselessness.

Actually it wasn't being ignored. 

The narrative was to protect vulnerable people. Which is why family gatherings were discouraged. 

During the 3rd Wave, more young people were being hospitalized and died. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid-third-wave-younger-patients-1.5955838

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Actually it wasn't being ignored. 

 

During the 3rd Wave, more young people were being hospitalized and died. 

 

Actually it was.

And more young people are being disabled and dying from the vaccine.

Let's see those stats every day.

[Boges]

Just now, Goddess said:

Actually it was.

And more young people are being disabled and dying from the vaccine.

Let's see those stats every day.

Do you have a single reference from Canada to back that claim up? 

Do you know how many Canadians have experienced myocarditis? 

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

And more young people are being disabled and dying from the vaccine.

Find credible sources, not Twitter posts or fringe websites or  years old clippings and maybe you'd have some credibility.  But otherwise you are just hysterically spreading misinformation.

[Accountability Now]

43 minutes ago, Boges said:

All the people in this league were 50+. The man who died was 75. As you age your immune system goes down regardless. So even the vaccine is less effective. 

From your linked article. 

All presumably in vulnerable groups as well.  

So let's recap, we put in these mandates to protect the vulnerable even though that is the job of the vaccine. And when even that doesn't work, you still think the passports are worthwhile?

The virus largely affects elderly and those with pre-existing conditions with or without vaccine.  

48 minutes ago, Boges said:

Numbers continue to drop in Ontario. Even as the weather cools down and people move activities indoors. 

Numbers were down to next to nothing in Alberta in July. So what's your point? They're called waves meaning they will come and go. Ontario has had 600k cases of COVID in a population of 14.5M. That works out to 4% of the population....you don't think there will be more waves? 

[Boges]

13 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

So let's recap, we put in these mandates to protect the vulnerable even though that is the job of the vaccine. And when even that doesn't work, you still think the passports are worthwhile?

Actually no we didn't. Even with only about 10% eligible of the population unvaccinated, more or less 2/3 of the daily cases are still amongst unvaccinated. And closer to 80% of the hospitalized are unvaccinated. It was to keep unvaccinated people out of the Hospital. 

One of these men did die, tragically, but he was vulnerable. The other 15, also vulnerable, recovered with mild symptoms. 

Had the entire group been unvaccinated, I suspect the figures would be much different, for the worst. 

Quote

Numbers were down to next to nothing in Alberta in July. So what's your point? They're called waves meaning they will come and go. Ontario has had 600k cases of COVID in a population of 14.5M. That works out to 4% of the population....you don't think there will be more waves? 

And Alberta withdrew all public safety measures and their hospitals were overwhelmed. Ditto with Saskatchewan. 

We actually see Nordic countries seeing a dramatic spike in cases by removing public health precautions. 

Ontario has said that vaccine passport mandates will be removed in January and mask mandates will be removed in March. Plenty of time to guard against "waves". 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Boges