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Is Doug Ford handling the Covid 19 outbreak good?  

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8 hours ago, Boges said:

What parents have been incarcerated? 

I agree that children don't stand a good chance of getting gravely ill from COVID. But, as much as you deny it, spread is reduced with vaccination. 

Even with increased breakthrough cases, it's still a small fraction compared to those unvaccinated. Less than 25% of the province is unvaccinated. 

What parents have been incarcerated? 

None yet that I know of. The hyperbole should have been obvious. The obvious intent was to point out the slippery slope possibilities.

I agree that children don't stand a good chance of getting gravely ill from COVID. But, as much as you deny it, spread is reduced with vaccination. 

Among children, you mean? There aren't enough cases for a sample size so how would either of us know. 

I'm pretty sure I have a link somewhere to something about the Pfizer testing showing children were in more danger of adverse reactions than covid but Pfizer kept that secret. Want me to look that up for you?

Even with increased breakthrough cases, it's still a small fraction compared to those unvaccinated. Less than 25% of the province is unvaccinated. 

As I keep telling you guys that depends on the region or the time period. Go ahead tell me about Ontario. I'll tell you about Gibraltor, Vermont, the UK or Israel.

 

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Oh and Boges, did you hear about what's happening in Japan?

It's a little like what happened in Florida but it's not necessarily related to therapeutics (although there is a mention of Ivermectin)

You should check out the doctor's video I'll post below. I think you'll find it interesting. He's talking possibilities. Skip past the Ivermectin part, if you want, to where he starts talking about things that might exist in Japanese biochemistry and might possibly be innovated for use to the rest of us.

It's kind of fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g

 

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15 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

As I keep telling you guys that depends on the region or the time period. Go ahead tell me about Ontario. I'll tell you about Gibraltor, Vermont, the UK or Israel.

Well this is a thread about Ontario. 

If breakthrough cases go up without the increased instances of hospitalization amongst a highly vaccinated populace, it's an indication that the disease is becoming endemic and not that the vaccine has been a failure. 

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16 hours ago, Goddess said:

In Canada - how many parents have to lose a child or watch them be permanently disabled or die 5 years later from myocarditis (did you know that 5 years is the life expectancy for someone with myocarditis) for you to feel safe?

25 children?

50?

250?

5000?

How dare you call anyone else selfish when you expect parents to sacrifice their babies for YOU.

Shame. On. You.

Have I called any parents selfish? 

I probably would be more sympathetic to your "team" should governments start telling parents they can't go school if they don't get a vaccine. 

So far your only indication there'll be a broad mandate is a slippery slope argument. 

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Cool Study from Ontario. 

https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010/news/only-nine-ontarians-under-the-age-of-60-have-ended-up-in-the-icu-with-a-breakthrough-case-of-covid-19-1.16564910?fbclid=IwAR1M9Zd_aLnoa03owsaUw0FIDy1tka0LCE-8DYgSXFeh3jRQhD3OUOkj6GM

 

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In fact, over the last year there have been just 83 people under the age of 60 who have ended up in hospital with a breakthrough case of COVID-19. Of those individuals, just nine of them have required treatment in an intensive care unit.

As a point of comparison a total of 8,355 unvaccinated individuals under the age of 60 have ended up in hospital with COVID-19 over the same time-period and 1,722 of them have required treatment in the ICU.

 

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“Over time as a population becomes more highly vaccinated the number of post-vaccination cases, including breakthrough cases, will likely increase,” the report notes. “Even with a highly effective vaccine, cases may occur among vaccinated individuals due to a larger proportion of the population being vaccinated than unvaccinated.”

The data released by Public Health Ontario suggests that the rate of COVID-19 infections in fully vaccinated individuals has “remained consistent over time,” even with many of those people now months removed from receiving their second doses and Ontario beginning to administer booster shots to a small group of individuals amid concerns about waning immunity.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Boges said:

Well this is a thread about Ontario. 

If breakthrough cases go up without the increased instances of hospitalization amongst a highly vaccinated populace, it's an indication that the disease is becoming endemic and not that the vaccine has been a failure. 

Fine it's a story about Ontario. Don't be claiming stats coming out of that tiny segment of the Global population for a short period of time justify any kind of wide-reaching general claim about Covid then. Too much contradicts the claims of what may be happening in the early stages of the Delta wave in some Canadian provinces.

For example this story came out this morning:

ANOTHER Ultra-Vaxxed Nation Imposes New ‘State of Calamity’ Over Ongoing Massive Covid Surge

It's Portugal. Add that one to the list.

Edited by Infidel Dog
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If this idea things are so horrible in Ontario at the moment is true though it makes me wonder why do we insist on thinking this vaccine works if it's not working.

Three quarters of Ontario is fully vaccinated is it the idea that once that last quarter is vaccinated there will be no more problems?

Sorry to keep noticing but, didn't work in Gibraltar.

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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Fine it's a story about Ontario. Don't be claiming stats coming out of that tiny segment of the Global population for a short period of time justify any kind of wide-reaching general claim about Covid then. Too much contradicts the claims of what may be happening in the early stages of the Delta wave in some Canadian provinces.

For example this story came out this morning:

ANOTHER Ultra-Vaxxed Nation Imposes New ‘State of Calamity’ Over Ongoing Massive Covid Surge

It's Portugal. Add that one to the list.

From Reuters. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/portugal-reimposes-covid-19-restrictions-cases-rise-2021-11-25/

Quote

Portugal reported 3,773 new cases on Wednesday, the highest daily figure in four months, before dropping to 3,150 on Thursday. Deaths, however, remain far below levels seen in January, when the country faced its toughest battle against COVID-19.

COVID will be seasonal. So a surge in cases would be expected. But because of the level of vaccination the instances of serious illness is far lower. 

We're living in this world where any symptoms of sickness require a COVID test so as general sickness increases because of the time of year this is, more scrutiny is given to COVID numbers overall. 

I would agree that Portugal's reaction is heavy-handed. Similar to how Australia and New Zealand are handing it. Too harsh. 

Edited by Boges
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48 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

If this idea things are so horrible in Ontario at the moment is true though it makes me wonder why do we insist on thinking this vaccine works if it's not working.

Three quarters of Ontario is fully vaccinated is it the idea that once that last quarter is vaccinated there will be no more problems?

Sorry to keep noticing but, didn't work in Gibraltar.

Who said it's horrible? I certainly didn't. 

Numbers are slowly rising but Hospitalization has been stable for months. We're entering the winter, it's expected that a Respiratory virus will proliferate, to some extent. 

Also notable that many of the positive cases are in the 5-12 cohort that, as of this week, can now be vaccinated. 

Edited by Boges
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This policy would never fly in Canada. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/portugal-reimposes-covid-19-restrictions-cases-rise-2021-11-25/

Quote

Costa also announced that those fully vaccinated must also present proof of a negative coronavirus test to enter nightclubs, bars, large events and care homes, and that the EU digital certificate would be required to stay in hotels, go to the gym, or dine indoors in restaurants.

Only in certain environments where someone ISN'T Vaccinated is testing ever a requirement. 

There's huge pressure on the Feds, in Canada, to remove the PCR testing requirement on international travel. It's an unreasonable expense on a person travelling for leisure. 

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3 hours ago, Boges said:

The two largest of the three "waves" Ontario has had occurred between Nov 2020 and July 2021 which was before most of the people were vaccinated...hence most of the hospitalizations and ICU visits could only be those numbers. If you truly want to compare how the vaccine is doing then you should be measuring the hospitalization and ICU numbers from the point of vaccination. 

 

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In fact, over the last year there have been just 83 people under the age of 60 who have ended up in hospital with a breakthrough case of COVID-19. Of those individuals, just nine of them have required treatment in an intensive care unit.

Clearly the 83 people under 60 with vaccinations happened after they were vaccinated. The bulk of the vaccinations started in June/July when the largest two waves were already over. If you truly want to compare the numbers then see how many under 60s were in the hospital or ICU from July 2021 to Nov 2021 as that is what your numbers above are actually referencing. 

Not saying that the unvaxxed would be lower or even the same but I'm guessing the shock value would surprise you. 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

Who said it's horrible? I certainly didn't. 

Numbers are slowly rising but Hospitalization has been stable for months. We're entering the winter, it's expected that a Respiratory virus will proliferate, to some extent. 

Also notable that many of the positive cases are in the 5-12 cohort that, as of this week, can now be vaccinated. 

Fine why do you need mandates and passports then?

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

 

 

COVID will be seasonal. So a surge in cases would be expected. But because of the level of vaccination the instances of serious illness is far lower. 

I don't know about seasonal. Portugal is just the latest massively jabbed country with a surge in cases. Would you like to see a larger list of such places again? There's one for every season.

But yes the vax does appear to have therapeutic qualities until efficacy starts to wane - about 3-6 months depending on the product.

You know what works even better though? Vaccines with therapeutics. Just ask places like Florida, Japan, regions of India and Brazil. There are countries in Africa that have had luck even with just therapeutics and no vaccine.

The advantage is there is less risk of serious adverse reactions so repeated use when necessary is less scary. Also you don't need to lock down and segregate by vax pass the state, province or country.

Edited by Infidel Dog
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On 11/24/2021 at 2:31 PM, Boges said:

Mandatory vaccination of children is nothing new. 

It is for a virus that poses less of a threat than the flu, and when the vaccines have bypassed the normal testing criteria.  Normally vaccines that are mandated for children go through years of testing before approval.  We shouldn't be treating kids as guiney pigs over a virus that poses less of a threat then the vaccine itself and the virus.  It's just common sense.  But that seems to be in shorty supply nowadays.

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On 11/25/2021 at 5:26 PM, Infidel Dog said:

I don't know about seasonal. Portugal is just the latest massively jabbed country with a surge in cases. Would you like to see a larger list of such places again? There's one for every season.

But yes the vax does appear to have therapeutic qualities until efficacy starts to wane - about 3-6 months depending on the product.

You know what works even better though? Vaccines with therapeutics. Just ask places like Florida, Japan, regions of India and Brazil. There are countries in Africa that have had luck even with just therapeutics and no vaccine.

 

Who's denying that therapeutics should be part of a treatment approach? 

Is this your way to shoehorn in a discussion about Ivermectin. So far no one has applied to have Ivermectin approved for treatment of COVID to Health Canada. But we should just do it anyway, because it's off-label and cheap as opposed to these other drugs that are going through the proper regulatory process. 

Quote

The advantage is there is less risk of serious adverse reactions so repeated use when necessary is less scary. Also you don't need to lock down and segregate by vax pass the state, province or country.

It's only scary to people that believe anti-vax propaganda. And that's the problem. 

If a booster shouldn't be scary, especially in the face of new variants. But the anti-vax crowd wants to make vaccines this conspiracy for control over the populace. 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

Who's denying that therapeutics should be part of a treatment approach? 

Not you anymore?

Good. So you finally believe what I've been telling you since October about Florida and monoclonal antibodies then?

Florida’s Lowest Coronavirus Case Rate in the Nation Drops Even Further

I see you're still needing a little education about all the other possibilities that need to be accessible but aren't because Big Pharma has their boots on the medical profession's neck - with political help.

And it's not just Ivermectin.

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3 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Not you anymore?

Good. So you finally believe what I've been telling you since October about Florida and monoclonal antibodies then?

Florida’s Lowest Coronavirus Case Rate in the Nation Drops Even Further

I see you're still needing a little education about all the other possibilities that need to be accessible but aren't because Big Pharma has their boots on the medical profession's neck - with political help.

And it's not just Ivermectin.

Monoclonal anti-bodies don't effect the case count. 

You take that when you're already really sick. 

What approved drug can be used as a Prophylactic? I remember Trump tried Hydoxychloraquine as a prophylactic. Still ended getting infected. 

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5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Monoclonal anti-bodies don't affect the case count. 

 

Sure they do. As much as what you call "the vaccine" does. (The 2 together even more.) Just look at the case count graph in Florida since the end of August when DeSantis opened up the MCA centers.

Texas seems to be getting things under control too. Maybe they're following Florida's example.

I hear things are not going so well for the new commie governor in New York and Gretchen whitless in Michigan.

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7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Sure they do. As much as what you call "the vaccine" does. (The 2 together even more.) Just look at the case count graph in Florida since the end of August when DeSantis opened up the MCA centers.

Texas seems to be getting things under control too. Maybe they're following Florida's example.

I hear things are not going so well for the new commie governor in New York and Gretchen whitless in Michigan.

That's correlation vs causation. 

In reality Florida, Texas and the rest of the South saw a seasonable booth just like they did in 2020. 

When it's 35+ Celsius every day, people spend much of their time in Air Conditioned homes. It's comparable to how, we in the north, stay inside in the winter. Note the rise in cases in Northern States and in Canada. 

Southern States are now seeing more seasonable weather where people are more comfortable outdoors, where the virus doesn't spread as well. 

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9 minutes ago, Boges said:

What approved drug can be used as a Prophylactic? I remember Trump tried Hydoxychloraquine as a prophylactic. Still ended getting infected. 

I doubt there is an effective prophylactic - and that includes "the vaccine."

The best you can do is get on it early before it spreads, I think. 

One hears about about prophylactic cocktails - vitamin D and a bunch of stuff I've never heard of.

There are all kinds of new things out there for treatment that need to be looked at. For example...

Fluvoxamine

Fenofibrate

I heard something about a nasal spray. I imagine Big Pharma will get Pfizer and Merk's pills pushed through quick. At this point if the "vaccine" gets experimental testing on the wider population I'm for opening it up to all and letting the public and professionals they trust make their own decisions.

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2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I doubt there is an effective prophylactic - and that includes "the vaccine."

The best you can do is get on it early before it spreads, I think. 

One hears about about prophylactic cocktails - vitamin D and a bunch of stuff I've never heard of.

There are all kinds of new things out there for treatment that need to be looked at. For example...

Fluvoxamine

Fenofibrate

I heard something about a nasal spray. I imagine Big Pharma will get Pfizer and Merk's pills pushed through quick. At this point if the "vaccine" gets experimental testing on the wider population I'm for opening it up to all and letting the public and professionals they trust make their own decisions.

I agree that vitamins and traditional immune system boosters are helpful. 

Again, getting the virus and getting sick from the virus are two different things. Especially with so much testing going on. 

It'll be interesting to see how many Omicron patients get severely ill. 

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18 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's correlation vs causation. 

In reality Florida, Texas and the rest of the South saw a seasonable booth just like they did in 2020. 

When it's 35+ Celsius every day, people spend much of their time in Air Conditioned homes. It's comparable to how, we in the north, stay inside in the winter. Note the rise in cases in Northern States and in Canada. 

Southern States are now seeing more seasonable weather where people are more comfortable outdoors, where the virus doesn't spread as well. 

Correlation as causation is all we've got right now - and that includes the vaccine. We're in a testing period.

I think you need to check your stats again as to what's been happening in the south.

It's true the big wave was winter of 2021 for most Southern states but nothing like that is happening so far this winter and there were mini waves in Summers of 2020 and 2021 more comparable to what's been happening so far this winter in the south. Florida's big problem was in the Summer of 2021 then DeSantis jumped on the MCAs with the vax and that vanished.

Here ya go. I'll make it easy for you.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/california/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/georgia/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/tennessee/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Vaccines are doing what we were told they would do. Ford is one of the best leaders in the country on this. Mistakes made yup. Get things wrong at times? Yup But they did nor fear changing positions if needed. Unlike the other 2 parties that would have run this province off a cliff the last 2 yrs, like the Feds. 

Edited by PIK
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On 11/30/2021 at 11:50 AM, Infidel Dog said:

Correlation as causation is all we've got right now - and that includes the vaccine. We're in a testing period.

I think you need to check your stats again as to what's been happening in the south.

It's true the big wave was winter of 2021 for most Southern states but nothing like that is happening so far this winter and there were mini waves in Summers of 2020 and 2021 more comparable to what's been happening so far this winter in the south. Florida's big problem was in the Summer of 2021 then DeSantis jumped on the MCAs with the vax and that vanished.

Here ya go. I'll make it easy for you.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/california/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/georgia/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/tennessee/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/

We should all admire Florida’s resolve to protect the American way of life.  It has come at a cost, but it’s a relief to know that at least a few governments are fighting to protect freedom.  They are characterized as reckless and ignorant in much mainstream media, but imagine where we’d be without these holdouts?  I’ve lost a certain amount of faith in Canadian democracy, because the people are dangerously impressionable to alarmist narratives from media and international organizations that are heavily influenced by totalitarian ideology.

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