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Is Doug Ford handling the Covid 19 outbreak good?  

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Monday, nearly all restrictions in our workplace are being removed .  We had restrictions on the number of people who could be in at the any time, the number of people who could be in any given room at the same time, how far apart we had to sit from co-workers, which stairwell we could use to go up or down to the different floors, when we were open to the public.  The only restriction remaining is wearing masks in common areas.  Your workplace may differ, but that is nothing to do with government itself imposing restrictions on you.

I don't know where you are, or why your workplace requires that extra layer of protection, but to think wearing a visor is akin to the dark ages is hyperbolic, to say the least.   

It’s sickly oppressive to make fully vaccinated people wear masks, let alone visors.  What was the point of vaccination?

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On 11/19/2021 at 9:20 PM, Zeitgeist said:

It’s sickly oppressive to make fully vaccinated people wear masks, let alone visors.  What was the point of vaccination?

Agreed.  Going forward, especially after full vaccination or natural immunity, covid should be treated like the flu.  In a short time covid will become endemic, and we need to start living with what is essentially a bad cold or flu for the vast majority of of people.  It’s even less than that for anyone vaccinated.

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On 11/19/2021 at 6:31 PM, Infidel Dog said:

Still isn't as impressive as the 20 to 1 they were strutting around about in the first week or two of Delta. The stats should get worse for you as the efficacy of the vaccine wanes. Also I always wonder how many of those covid stats are actually stats of adverse reactions to the vaccine. And those will slow down now. Unless you do boosters.

You may get lucky though, Boges. I hear there may be a new variant taking over. The last time that happened they were checking in the unvaxxed for observation and sending the vaxxed home. Ok, I admit it. That's also just one of my personal suspicions.

Oh and Florida is still doing just fine with their policy of accessible monoclonal antibodies. 1/10 of the cases at their pre-MA peak. 1/60th of the deaths.

You keep forgetting that 3/4 of the population IS fully vaccinated. So we're not dealing with apples to apples as a percentage of the population. 

ALSO, fully vaxxed people do have more freedoms to congregate that unvaxxed don't. That plays a factor. 

When we talk about caseload, a good chunk of the daily cases are also unvaxxed children. 

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Today was the first day that more new cases came from vaccinated vs unvaccinated. 

Hospitalizations are actually going down even though cases are slowly on the rise. 

The waning of the vaccine's efficacy is only really for non-symptomatic or mild COVID. If COVID, for the vaccinated, is no worse than a cold, then we seem to have reached the level of COVID being an endemic virus. 

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3 hours ago, Boges said:

You keep forgetting that 3/4 of the population IS fully vaccinated. So we're not dealing with apples to apples as a percentage of the population. 

I didn't forget that at all. That's been well covered.

Something else that's been well covered here (by me mostly) is when the Delta Variant first hit Ontario a couple proud Canadians here were strutting around bragging about the outrageous ratio unvaccinated to vaccinated of the hospitalized. I warned them this would change because that's what happened around the world with time. A couple days ago I was reading how that was happening in Ontario now and the ratio had grown suddenly to 40% vaccinated being hospitalized. I forgot to save that one but I went to check the stats on the official site and saw this:

Quote

Due to technical difficulties, the case rate by vaccination status by age group is not available

They say they don't update on Mondays and the weekends now but what they have tells us 80 vaccinated and 90 unvaccinated Ontario-ites in the hospital before the weekend. That's no longer 20 to 1 unvaccinated to vaccinated.

Vax to unvaxxed stats might disappear soon on the official Ontario site but if Ontario follows the lead of places like the massively vaccinated Gibraltar or the most vaccinated state in America, Vermont, this "Pandemic of the unvaccinated" stat we were hearing about is going to flip like Fauci.

And whether it's mostly vaccinated now or not what you'll have to admit is the vaccinated transmit the disease...if not a lot, then too much.

Then we can start talking adverse reactions and natural immunity again and you can tell me why you think what present themselves as my moral superiors have the right to separate pure-bloods and half-bloods like myself from the vax compliant like they did with the interred Japanese in the second world war.

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10 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

And whether it's mostly vaccinated now or not what you'll have to admit is the vaccinated transmit the disease...if not a lot, then too much.

Is it too much? 

Hospitalizations are quite low right now. No reason to panic. 

I would suggest that if the policy of testing, whenever mild symptoms are present, is done away with and testing only happens with severe symptoms, most of these cases would go undetected. 

Regarding the unvaccinated. Many are children and adults aren't being permitted to participate in congregate settings unmasked. That would likely lead to the reduction in cases amongst the unvaccinated. 

Quote

Then we can start talking adverse reactions again.

To the vaccine? That's just anti-vax propoganda at this point. 

Seems Ontario track adverse reactions well. Better than VAERSE.

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-aefi-report.pdf?sc_lang=en

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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Who's panicking man?

I'm not the one pushing mandates, lockdowns and passports. That's your crowd.

I think the narrative that "your crowd" want to push is that these vaccines aren't working and the fact that ratios aren't tilted as heavily towards unvaxxed testing positive is evidence of that. 

My counter-point would be, who cares if Hospitalizations is still low. 

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So wait a minute...

Are we agreeing that this quote, unquote "Pandemic" is over-hyped?

Mandating, locking down, licensing isn't really about health. It's about control.

If not what am I to take from the idea that now even you notice hospitalizations are low. Apparently they're so low you don't even want to consider them anymore.

In BC we have the 2nd lowest rate in the world and there's this other guy on here who's almost literally pulling his hair out about what he believes is the covid horror in BC.

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12 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

So wait a minute...

Are we agreeing that this quote, unquote "Pandemic" is over-hyped?

Mandating, locking down, licensing isn't really about health. It's about control.

If not what am I to take from the idea that now even you notice hospitalizations are low. Apparently they're so low you don't even want to consider them anymore.

In BC we have the 2nd lowest rate in the world and there's this other guy on here who's almost literally pulling his hair out about what he believes is the covid horror in BC.

It's pre-emptive. 

Hospitalization is low because vaccines are mandated and the 12+ unvaccinated aren't permitted in large indoor gatherings. There are also still masking guidelines. 

You don't want to see a situation like Alberta or Saskatchewan. They were forced into mandates because the pandemic got out-of-control. So they had to implement these policies in a reactionary manor. 

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From today's stats. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-613-new-covid-19-cases-six-additional-deaths-1.5677589

Quote

Ontario’s COVID-19 Science Advisory Table finds that even with millions of people now five months out from their second dose or longer, full vaccination is still associated with an 81 per cent relative reduction risk in infection and a 92 per cent relative reduction in risk of hospitalization.

https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/ontario-dashboard/

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Come to think of it Boges, explain this one to me. Why in your land of "not much of a problem in general anyway" do we need this?

"

“The science shows us that COVID is not a deadly virus for kids,” writes Malcolm.

“So why are we going into overdrive with protective measures for kids? Mask mandates at schools, rules preventing kids from talking during their lunch break, social distancing measures and at-home virtual learning — all of these have negative impacts on a child’s ability to communicate, learn and enjoy their precious childhoods.”

https://tnc.news/2021/11/22/six-covid-19-deaths-among-kids-under-15-in-canada/

In all of Canada for the length of the pandemic covid is only blamed for 17 deaths in children under 19.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228632/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-age/

If you go to under 15 there's this:

"The pandemic is blamed for [only] six deaths among more than 6 million unvaccinated children under age 15"

https://www.blacklocks.ca/six-covid-deaths-in-children/

So whataya think, Boges? Save the world? Mask mandate all those little maskless 5 year olds we see in shopping malls? Incarcerate parents who have been daring to read those adverse reaction stats and won't comply? Build camps so we can witness all the little masked parentless faces and believe we are the lords of morality while Big Pharma grins and rubs their greedy hands together?

 

 

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16 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

So no need for boosters?

Well they aren't going to US route and advocating for them. 

Right now they're only available for people with pre-existing conditions, those who had both AZ shots and those over 70. 

They aren't mandated even if you are over 70. 

 

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15 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

So whataya think, Boges? Save the world? Mask mandate all those little maskless 5 year olds we see in shopping malls? Incarcerate parents who have been daring to read those adverse reaction stats and won't comply? Build camps so we can witness all the little masked parentless faces and believe we are the lords of morality while Big Pharma grins and rubs their greedy hands together?

What parents have been incarcerated? 

I agree that children don't stand a good chance of getting gravely ill from COVID. But, as much as you deny it, spread is reduced with vaccination. 

Even with increased breakthrough cases, it's still a small fraction compared to those unvaccinated. Less than 25% of the province is unvaccinated. 

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5 hours ago, Boges said:

What parents have been incarcerated? 

I agree that children don't stand a good chance of getting gravely ill from COVID. But, as much as you deny it, spread is reduced with vaccination. 

Even with increased breakthrough cases, it's still a small fraction compared to those unvaccinated. Less than 25% of the province is unvaccinated. 

They will not stop until they jab all our children.  That is Xiden's goal and will be pushed next here in Canada.

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54 minutes ago, Boges said:

Mandatory vaccination of children is nothing new. 

Previous vaccines went through years of trials before children were jabbed.

This is very different.

Dr. Eric Rubin, of the FDA and New England Journal of Medicine said this about the covid shots for children:

"We're never going to learn how safe the vaccine is unless we start giving it. That's just the way it goes."

Not all parents are so willing and !!!!!excited!!!! to offer their own children up as guinea pigs for experimental vaccines that offer nothing in the way of protection for the children and have no long-term studies done.

Ask Mrs. de Garay. She offered her 13 year old daughter, Maddie, up for the clinical trials and Maddie is now catastrophically disabled, in a wheelchair with a feeding tube.  She can get no assistance or response from the CDC, the FDA or Pfizer.  Pfizer, in fact, devoted only 3 sentences in its report to the FDA on Maddie's injuries and says her condition is only "functional abdominal pain."

You do realize that children have already died from this vaccine, right?

So I ask you again - how many children have to die or be disabled before you feel safe?

In Canada - how many parents have to lose a child or watch them be permanently disabled or die 5 years later from myocarditis (did you know that 5 years is the life expectancy for someone with myocarditis) for you to feel safe?

25 children?

50?

250?

5000?

How dare you call anyone else selfish when you expect parents to sacrifice their babies for YOU.

Shame. On. You.

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14 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Previous vaccines went through years of trials before children were jabbed.

This is very different.

Dr. Eric Rubin, of the FDA and New England Journal of Medicine said this about the covid shots for children:

"We're never going to learn how safe the vaccine is unless we start giving it. That's just the way it goes."

Not all parents are so willing and !!!!!excited!!!! to offer their own children up as guinea pigs for experimental vaccines that offer nothing in the way of protection for the children and have no long-term studies done.

Ask Mrs. de Garay. She offered her 13 year old daughter, Maddie, up for the clinical trials and Maddie is now catastrophically disabled, in a wheelchair with a feeding tube.  She can get no assistance or response from the CDC, the FDA or Pfizer.  Pfizer, in fact, devoted only 3 sentences in its report to the FDA on Maddie's injuries and says her condition is only "functional abdominal pain."

You do realize that children have already died from this vaccine, right?

So I ask you again - how many children have to die or be disabled before you feel safe?

In Canada - how many parents have to lose a child or watch them be permanently disabled or die 5 years later from myocarditis (did you know that 5 years is the life expectancy for someone with myocarditis) for you to feel safe?

25 children?

50?

250?

5000?

How dare you call anyone else selfish when you expect parents to sacrifice their babies for YOU.

Shame. On. You.

Great example.  And Canada is not the USA.  Guess what happens if the health department or healthcare workers mess up?  You can sue them for hardship and you might just win enough to pay your legal bills but that's it.

I gave a choice to my 14 and 16 year olds.  My 14 year old was really nervous about it.  But they eventually chose to get vaccinated.  And NOW they are thinking of coming for my 8 and 11 year old?  Hell no.

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10 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I will shame anybody who feels entitled to have other people's children risk death and disability for their false illusion of safety.

We could both debate our points with less rancour and more respect.  After all, just as as I or Boges might be wrong about the dangers of the vaccine, so might you be.   If, as @Army Guy says, disinformation is rampant on both sides we could all take a step back and stop beating each other up.

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