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Is Doug Ford handling the Covid 19 outbreak good?  

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16 minutes ago, Boges said:

Actually no we didn't.

Sure they did.  Remember it was get the shot to protect gramma and grampa! Do it for others they would say, or else you are selfish.

 Hospital numbers never got high in Ontario and they were still pushing the shot for the reasons I suggest. 

20 minutes ago, Boges said:

 more or less 2/3 of the daily cases are still amongst unvaccinated.

 

And that number keeps shrinking while the vaccinated numbers keep growing. Just wait until you're looking down your nose at those with only two shots 

23 minutes ago, Boges said:

Had the entire group been unvaccinated, I suspect the figures would be much different, for the worst.

And what did the vaccine passport do to protect these 15 guys from getting it? That is the point. 

The answer...is nothing. 

 

38 minutes ago, Boges said:

And Alberta withdrew all public safety measures and their hospitals were overwhelmed. Ditto with Saskatchewan. 

I find ironic that you one one hand smack Alberta for dropping safety measures and then with the other hand you applaud Ontario for dropping them. I have no problem for timely and effective safety measures that you ramp up when needed. If you don't agree with that then you should be arguing that Ontario should never drop the measures.  

At some point this becomes an endemic and you treat it as such, good or bad. Until then its pandemic and you can't have mercurial views on how it should be handled. 

 

41 minutes ago, Boges said:

We actually see Nordic countries seeing a dramatic spike in cases by removing public health precautions. 

Citation please.

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1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

Sure they did.  Remember it was get the shot to protect gramma and grampa! Do it for others they would say, or else you are selfish.

In the first wave, sure. But, I think you can concede almost all older people are vaccinated. 

 

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 Hospital numbers never got high in Ontario and they were still pushing the shot for the reasons I suggest. 

And that number keeps shrinking while the vaccinated numbers keep growing. Just wait until you're looking down your nose at those with only two shots 

 

In March and April, they were very high. From Easter to mid-June Ontario was essentially in Lockdown. 

The Ratio of infected for vaxxed increases as the total number drops. And hospitalizations also drop. 

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And what did the vaccine passport do to protect these 15 guys from getting it? That is the point. 

The answer...is nothing. 

Those 15 guys got a mild case, likely due to the vaccine. The passport does mitigate spread, but doesn't prevent it.

 

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I find ironic that you one one hand smack Alberta for dropping safety measures and then with the other hand you applaud Ontario for dropping them. I have no problem for timely and effective safety measures that you ramp up when needed. If you don't agree with that then you should be arguing that Ontario should never drop the measures.  

Well Ontario isn't dropping them . . . Likely not until the winter is over.  When each restriction is lifted, time is given to see how it affects cases and hospitalizations. 

This week Ontario removed all capacity limits in places with the vaccine passport implemented. 

 

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At some point this becomes an endemic and you treat it as such, good or bad. Until then its pandemic and you can't have mercurial views on how it should be handled. 

When North 3/4 of the population having some immunity and the the majority that don't are children, we're getting close to the effective end of the pandemic. I'm hoping once Saskatchewan and Alberta get their shit together, the Feds may lift the PCR test requirement for vaccinated people. 

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Citation please.

 

It's noted here. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/8289227/ontario-covid-coronavirus-modelling-october-22/

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Dr. Peter Juni, the scientific director for the science table, spoke to Global News about the comparison of Ontario to a country such as Denmark in the modelling presentation.

“Denmark has a lot of advantages over Ontario, structurally speaking, with a lot less problems like socio-economic status, a lot less problems with living situations of people, but they lifted nearly all restrictions and guess what? Case numbers are exploding again. We want to avoid that.” Juni said.

https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/ontario-covid-modelling-nordic-countries-slide.jpg?w=2048

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3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Find credible sources, not Twitter posts or fringe websites or  years old clippings and maybe you'd have some credibility.  But otherwise you are just hysterically spreading misinformation.

https://theexpose.uk/2021/05/30/shocking-86-of-children-suffered-an-adverse-reaction-to-the-pfizer-covid-vaccine-in-clinical-trial/

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine EUA Fact Sheet for Healthcare Providers Administering Vaccine (Vaccination Providers) (fda.gov)

If you download the appendix to the Pfizer trial research.. there is another table. Where it shows there were 2 severe or life threatening adverse reactions after the 1st dose of Pfizer..in 1131 children (and children with drawn from the trial given that only really healthy kids would get ‘volunteered for a trial.. real world this could be higher.

2 severe or life threatening adverse reaction, out of 1131..
is the equivalent, of about 2 per secondary school… there are thousands of secondary schools. On those figures hundreds could be at risk of dying…

It goes on to say this:

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Given the safety, immune response, and efficacy of the BNT162b2 vaccine in adolescents 12 to 15 years of age reported in this analysis, studies are ongoing to evaluate these measures in younger children and in other special populations, such as pregnant women.

 

It doesn't bother you that there are no studies completed with regard to pregnant women, yet pregnant women are being forced to take it?  When whistleblowers are coming forward to report 10X the usual number of stillbirths in vaccinated women, this doesn't alarm you.  At all?

Very small, very short studies on children and no studies on pregnant women - WHY are we forcing this vaccine on everyone?

I would use other sites like VAERS and VigiAccess but you've already made it known that you do not put any credence to them.

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https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/pregnancy.html

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What You Need to Know

Pregnant and recently pregnant people are more likely to get severely ill with COVID-19 compared with non-pregnant people.

Getting a COVID-19 vaccine can protect you from severe illness from COVID-19.

COVID-19 vaccination is recommended for all people 12 years and older, including people who are pregnant, breastfeeding, trying to get pregnant now, or might become pregnant in the future.

Evidence about the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy has been growing. These data suggest that the benefits of receiving a COVID-19 vaccine outweigh any known or potential risks of vaccination during pregnancy.

There is currently no evidence that any vaccines, including COVID-19 vaccines, cause fertility problems in women or men.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

I'm not sure why the CDC would recommend an experimental vaccine, with no long-term studies and no studies at all for pregnant women. (Well, I do know why they're pushing it, come hell or high water.)

CDC also said thalidomide was safe for pregnant women.  That didn't turn out so good.

I guess each individual would have to weight the evidence (or lack of it, according to Pfizer's own information I cited above) from all these different sources.  Which is why it should be up to the individual.

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

2 severe or life threatening adverse reaction, out of 1131..
is the equivalent, of about 2 per secondary school… there are thousands of secondary schools. On those figures hundreds could be at risk of dying…

Imagine EVERY school in the US having several children die and more with life-altering neurological disorders, heart attacks and strokes.

How can anybody think this is worth it?

This means more healthy children will die from the vaccine than from covid.

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Between January 1, 2020 and October 16, 2021, only 94 children ages 5-11 have died of COVID, which is 0.00012 percent of the 723,880 total U.S. COVID deaths through the week ending Oct. 16, 2021;

Underlying risk factors in hospitalized children ages 5-11 include obesity, chronic metabolic disease, feeding tube dependence, cardiovascular disease, neurologic disorders, chronic lung disease, blood disorders, immunosuppressed conditions, and "other" conditions.

 

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Imagine EVERY school in the US having several children die and more with life-altering neurological disorders, heart attacks and strokes.

How can anybody think this is worth it?

This means more healthy children will die from the vaccine than from covid.

 

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/10/26/fda-pfizer-covid-vaccine-children-102621

 

Since the start of the pandemic, about 1.9 million children ages 5-11 years have been infected, about 9% of all U.S. cases. More than 8,300 have been hospitalized and 94 have died, according to federal data. The death toll in the past year puts COVID in the top 10 causes of death for this age group.

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

In the first wave, sure. But, I think you can concede almost all older people are vaccinated. 

Nope. That is still the same sentiment spewing from our leaders. We need to protect the vaccinated. 

4 hours ago, Boges said:

The Ratio of infected for vaxxed increases as the total number drops  vaccine wanes

I corrected it for you. 

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Those 15 guys got a mild case, likely due to the vaccine. The passport does mitigate spread, but doesn't prevent it.

Clearly it doesn't mitigate spread but keep telling yourself what you want to hear.  The fact is 15 guys, all vaccinated, spread it to each other. No mitigation there at all.  Keep in mind too....for most unvaccinated people, the virus is a mild case too. Always has been.

4 hours ago, Boges said:

This week Ontario removed all capacity limits in places with the vaccine passport implemented. 

Great. More covid spread about to happen. 

 

4 hours ago, Boges said:

When North 3/4 of the population having some immunity and the the majority that don't are children, we're getting close to the effective end of the pandemic. I'm hoping once Saskatchewan and Alberta get their shit together, the Feds may lift the PCR test requirement for vaccinated people. 

3/4?? 5% of Ontarians have had COVID and might have natural immunity as long as their infection was within about 14 months. The others that were jabbed will have vaccine immunity for 4-6 months.  Come January (if not sooner) most of the people double jabbed will be right back at square one unless they jab themselves with another booster. Your dream of 3/4 immunity is a pipe dream. 

 

4 hours ago, Boges said:

It's noted here. 

Notice how your guy left out Sweden? Maybe its because there numbers have flatlined since June without any restrictions. The other Nordic countries are starting to get the idea. This is something we have to live with.

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10 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Nope. That is still the same sentiment spewing from our leaders. We need to protect the vaccinated. 

I corrected it for you. 

Clearly it doesn't mitigate spread but keep telling yourself what you want to hear.  The fact is 15 guys, all vaccinated, spread it to each other. No mitigation there at all.  Keep in mind too....for most unvaccinated people, the virus is a mild case too. Always has been.

Great. More covid spread about to happen. 

 

3/4?? 5% of Ontarians have had COVID and might have natural immunity as long as their infection was within about 14 months. The others that were jabbed will have vaccine immunity for 4-6 months.  Come January (if not sooner) most of the people double jabbed will be right back at square one unless they jab themselves with another booster. Your dream of 3/4 immunity is a pipe dream. 

 

Notice how your guy left out Sweden? Maybe its because there numbers have flatlined since June without any restrictions. The other Nordic countries are starting to get the idea. This is something we have to live with.

Actually Sweden has had a small uptick since then, and its their, not there.  

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8 hours ago, Goddess said:

It's a bit worse than the seasonal flu.

It’s great that the media and public are starting to accept that covid is approaching the same level of severity as a bad flu season.

I will only add that, we have never counted the flu with this level of scrutiny before. Tests done all over the place. Worldwide database of the infection numbers. We have uncovered all sorts of new information by doing this, that is yet to be fully analyzed. 

It isnt even valid to compare our infection numbers with the past. Most likely we were always under-counting.

No Boges, I do not have a cite.

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8 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Is this honestly the best you have to offer this conversation? 

If you'd like:

https://www.euronews.com/2021/10/29/sweden-s-covid-19-pandemic-response-was-too-slow-says-commission-report

 

Sweden has recorded more than 15,000 deaths from the coronavirus, a much higher rate per capita than other Nordic countries.

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25 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Sweden has recorded more than 15,000 deaths from the coronavirus, a much higher rate per capita than other Nordic countries.

Again, you like to cherry pick your data. How about the fact that out of 30 European countries, 21 of them had higher excess mortality than Sweden. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-mortality-idUSKBN2BG1R9) The ones that were lower were the Nordic countries. Now keep this in mind... Sweden has had 11.3% of its population have COVID compared to 6.5% in Denmark, 3.79% in Norway and 2.8% in Finland.  They have incurred more COVID cases per capita and therefore it would make sense that they have a higher death per capita. 

This is why the other Nordic countries are following Sweden's lead now. People that die from COVID are people that would normally die from other diseases. They are old and have co-morbidities. So to shut down society to protect these people is simply a case of prolonging the agony.  

Just as a comparison....Canada has about 4% of its population that has had COVID. It will be a long road if we keep locking this down. 

Edited by Accountability Now
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22 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Your article is outdated.  If we're going on info from seven months ago over info from today this isn't going to go very well.  

? close to 70% of their deaths occurred in 2020.  That’s what this article was measuring excess deaths in 2020. 
 

When 2021 is over and they do this again, how do you think Sweden’s rank will be with  only 5000 COVID deaths versus 10000?

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3 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

? close to 70% of their deaths occurred in 2020.  That’s what this article was measuring excess deaths in 2020. 
 

When 2021 is over and they do this again, how do you think Sweden’s rank will be with  only 5000 COVID deaths versus 10000?

And what changed since then?  Didn't they implement restrictions later, as what the article I posted showed?  

Basically what all of this adds up to is that if you do nothing the death count goes higher.  People will complain, as is the case right now in Sweden.   Sure people will complain about the restrictions, but personally I'd choose the restrictions over death. 

In time covid will not be a problem and the restrictions will be lifted, but I've only got the one life.  

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18 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

And what changed since then?  Didn't they implement restrictions later, as what the article I posted showed? 

They did but minimal restrictions. Nothing compared to what was done in Canada, US or UK

 

19 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Basically what all of this adds up to is that if you do nothing the death count goes higher.

Um…21st out of 30 countries for excess death. Maybe more COVID deaths but clearly less suicide, drug overdoses or any other restriction related death

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22 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

They did but minimal restrictions. Nothing compared to what was done in Canada, US or UK

 

Um…21st out of 30 countries for excess death. Maybe more COVID deaths but clearly less suicide, drug overdoses or any other restriction related death

WEB3-Excess-Mortality-During-Coronavirus

Idk where you get your info from, but I'm guessing that your going off of excess deaths total.  Per capita is a different story, seeing as how Sweden has less population than Ontario.  

And not just by a little bit, we're talking about millions of people.  

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3 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Idk where you get your info from,

I literally cited the article I posted from. You even said you read the article. Are you into the booze right now?

4 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Per capita is a different story, seeing as how Sweden has less population than Ontario.  

You're circling back now. Again, Sweden had more deaths as 11% of its people had Covid. Ontario is at 4%.  When Ontario hits 11% then you can compare. 

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8 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

I literally cited the article I posted from. You even said you read the article. Are you into the booze right now?

You're circling back now. Again, Sweden had more deaths as 11% of its people had Covid. Ontario is at 4%.  When Ontario hits 11% then you can compare. 

 

Edited by Cannucklehead
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2 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Idk where you get this 4% from...Ontario has had 1.72 million cases.  To get 4% you'd have to multiply by 25 which gives you 43 million, which is higher than the population of all of Canada.  

Ontario population is more likely to be around 15 million, which is roughly 11-12%.  

LMFAO.....CANADA has had 1.72 million cases. Ontario has had about 600k. What are you looking at?

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