Doug Ford and Covid 19

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

 the reality is that outdoor dining and take-out are the ways to stay solvent during this public health crisis. 

Not always possible to offer outdoor dining in all locations. 

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, Boges said:

Evolve or die.

That sounds so bold, so Darwinian.

They would evolve if the government didn't shut them down, while giving others exemptions.

This is about government meddling and interference, not survival. Government is killing business. That's not survival, and they should not have the legal authority to do so.

... in my humble opinion!   

[myata]

16 hours ago, Boges said:

Evolve or die.

Says entitled government bureaucrat with guaranteed salaries, benefits, pension plans and golden parachutes reaching for a fav burger from the fav place that barely manages to stay afloat while having let go of all the serving stuff till better times i.e. indefinitely. No one sees the irony here. A long time since it was any funny or a mirror was used.

[Boges]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

That sounds so bold, so Darwinian.

They would evolve if the government didn't shut them down, while giving others exemptions.

This is about government meddling and interference, not survival. Government is killing business. That's not survival, and they should not have the legal authority to do so.

... in my humble opinion!   

Actually Brick and Mortar retail has been on a steady decline for awhile. The pandemic has accelerated some of it. 

But many retailers have seamlessly pivoted to the Curbside pickup model. 

And I don't know if you've tried to order pickup on a Friday or Saturday Night during the lockdown. It's something you certainly have to plan ahead as many restaurants are slammed during typical eating out periods. But instead of serving in the restaurant they're providing take-out. 

Businesses have adapted. 

Some industries like personal care and fitness are definitely not able to adapt as easily. But the demand for those services won't wane once we re-open. 

[Boges]

13 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Not always possible to offer outdoor dining in all locations. 

Then you would have made a living providing take-out this entire pandemic. ,

I know last summer, local governments closed streets to allow for more outdoor seating. I suspect more of the same this summer. 

[Boges]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Says entitled government bureaucrat with guaranteed salaries, benefits, pension plans and golden parachutes reaching for a fav burger from the fav place that barely manages to stay afloat while having let go of all the serving stuff till better times i.e. indefinitely. No one sees the irony here. A long time since it was any funny or a mirror was used.

The US is having a hell of a time getting workers back post pandemic. Government benefits provided better livings than the low wage service jobs they had before the pandemic. 

Perhaps that's a bigger problem that needs to be addressed. 

[myata]

All of this of course, in addition to the injury that it was never explained or proven that regular businesses ever posed any real risks (other than mass gatherings like parties but this is not the point). No, proving and explaining to the society was not in the mandate. The message was this (guessing but probably right):

1. Look we're actually doing something! after years of absent epidemiological preparedness and countless millions wasted.

2. You just have to stay home because we, responsible and paid for it, have no clues what else to do.

And it's not going to get any better simply because there is no reason to. A bureaucracy whatever wishes and desires cannot control itself with any efficiency. It will always come to bungled tasks big and small and innocent oops lets try again. This was a lost cause from the beginning and we're only beginning to see the inevitable play out.

[myata]

Why waste words? The numbers speak for themselves:

Ontario: 8,869, Quebec: 11,152

Norway: 784 (2195 with comparable population, Ontario)

Finland: 959 (2,685)

Sweden (comparable population, Quebec): 12,325

No lockdowns

Australia: 450 (comparable population, Ontario; Quebec, 257)

New Zealand: 26 (78 comparable population, Ontario)

Yes there were lockdowns; the difference is that they worked to minimize the impact on the society. In New Zealand there were open air concerts.

This is the cost of bureaucracy that manages itself, with no responsibility or accountability: oops SARS, oops MERS, not to worry, travel from Wuhan. Try to add something in this picture.

[Boges]

52 minutes ago, myata said:

Australia: 450 (comparable population, Ontario; Quebec, 257)

New Zealand: 26 (78 comparable population, Ontario)

Those two countries have had very strict lockdowns. Melbourne is locked down right now for having double digit cases. 

They also have piss poor vaccination rates so if/when the Delta variant takes hold, they'll have to go back to the lockdown route. 

As for Scandinavian countries, they're always used as a benchmark for good government. They're very small homogenous countries. And Sweden has amongst the highest death per capita in the world for their refusal to lockdown.  

Why not compare Canada to other countries in the G7? 

[OftenWrong]

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

And Sweden has amongst the highest death per capita in the world for their refusal to lockdown. 

Please cite this. I see that Sweden is #33 on the Worldometer list, surpassed by Portugal, France, Spain, Mexico, Argentina, USA, UK, Poland, Italy, Brazil etc.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Please cite this. I see that Sweden is #33 on the Worldometer list, surpassed by Portugal, France, Spain, Mexico, Argentina, USA, UK, Poland, Italy, Brazil etc.

Are those countries the benchmarks now? 

Their death per million is 1,400 more than double Canada's 688. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Boges

[myata]

Canada is not a country from public healthcare perspective its by province. This is a comparison that makes sense by similarity of the parameters. And why compare Ontario to the US or Germany that would make zero sense.

Sure you got it, it's the government what it does and how it does it. A "good government" without responsibility and accountability, without an ability or even incentive to explain itself and its acts to the public does not exist and cannot exisit, its a fairytale, a myth like many in this country.

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

Are those countries the benchmarks now? 

Their death per million is 1,400 more than double Canada's 688. 

You just moved the goal posts. Now cite, or be called a liar.

(or simply, very badly mistaken...    )

[Boges]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

You just moved the goal posts. Now cite, or be called a liar.

(or simply, very badly mistaken...    )

Sweden's death rate is bad. But, I'll admit, the US, Mexico Brazil and much of Westerrn Europe's numbers are much worse. My bad. 

[myata]

These examples clearly show that with similar factors of population density, concentration, level of development, culture:

1. Smart policy with clear and open communication achieves best results.

2. Clear communications with hands off policy achieves similar results to confused and ineffective communications with a strict policy.

And most importantly, that severity of policy does not guarantee best or even good results. Only smart, effective and efficient does that. Good luck.

[taxme]

On 6/4/2021 at 7:23 AM, Dougie93 said:

government in Canada overreaches by its very nature, it's a de facto police state written right into the laws

the only way to constrain it, is for the government to go broke

but since the official debt in Ontario of $400 billion or so is just the tip of the iceberg, we are getting there fast

the actual fiscal gap, total government outlays vs total receipts, is in the trillions

so Ontario is actually bankrupt right now, simply staving it off by kicking it down the road unto the grandchildren

"When the people fear government, it is tyranny. When the government fears the people, it is democracy". 

It would appear to me as though the former has taken over in globalist communist Canada today. Just by the number of people who have been Covid vaccinated shows to me that the majority of the Canadian sheeple are afraid and are in fear of the government. Tens of millions of sheeple Canadians have taken the jab because of their politicians and the lying media who for months were able to put the fear and panic into their hardly ever used brains that they are going to die if they do not get vaccinated. What or where is the real proof for this bull chit?   

Canadians never question or challenge anything the government and the media tells them that they must do for their own so called personal safety. they prefer to give up freedom for safety. Fools indeed. Many may start to regret that they took the jab. But by then it will be too late for them. There is no evidence or proof that these clown masks, social distancing, lock downs or quarantining has stopped the spread of this big bad scary Covid virus. Only fools still believe in this Covid hoax fairy tale. Just my opinion of course. 

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, taxme said:

Canadians never question or challenge anything the government and the media tells them that they must do for their own so called personal safety. they prefer to give up freedom for safety. Fools indeed. Many may start to regret that they took the jab. But by then it will be too late for them. There is no evidence or proof that these clown masks, social distancing, lock downs or quarantining has stopped the spread of this big bad scary Covid virus. Only fools still believe in this Covid hoax fairy tale. Just my opinion of course. 

I submit to the martial law of the Crown by free holding the land owned here by Elizabeth Windsor

it's a business transaction really, I take the profits from the free hold, in return for paying taxes & obeying the laws

thing is, I am of the wealthy lockdown class, I live amongst the elites who benefit from it, I profit from it as well

so it's no skin off my teeth, happy to kick back on my luxurious property for the staycation, indefinitely

if at some point it became a burden, I'd probably move to Florida

but so far so good, the pandemic hasn't crimped my style, it's been a boon in fact

[myata]

43 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but so far so good, the pandemic hasn't crimped my style, it's been a boon in fact

Ask a $20K monthly salary "public" bureaucrat with benefits, pension plan and golden parachute what they think of it. What if there's a surprise.

[myata]

test

Edited June 9, 2021 by myata

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, myata said:

Ask a $20K monthly salary "public" bureaucrat with benefits, pension plan and golden parachute what they think of it. What if there's a surprise.

like I say, free holding land from the Queen of Canada is a business transaction

it's not a republic, there is no public rule in Canada, so it's not my problem unless it becomes a problem for me

if it becomes a problem for me, I will move to someplace else, to a Red State in Dixie most likely

[OftenWrong]

14 hours ago, Boges said:

Then you would have made a living providing take-out this entire pandemic. ,

It just doesnt always work that way. Some foods are not amenable to the takeout format. Soup, for example. Its a pain to order.

[Boges]

9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It just doesnt always work that way. Some foods are not amenable to the takeout format. Soup, for example. Its a pain to order.

Dunno, Ramen places seem to be doing alright. 

[myata]

The very notion that bureaucrats who have nothing to lose ever, and regardless whatever is done or not oops not to worry! advising people to "evolve or perish" is beyond logic or irony here. One can look for words to characterize it but almost certainly it illustrates just how huge, possibly irreversible the gap between the government and the reality of the society has grown. And with the public not showing much interest in these matters the outlook for the future in this century may not be that great.

Edited June 9, 2021 by myata

[OftenWrong]

“A new analysis of postal code and vaccination data in Toronto suggests that the city's hardest-hit neighbourhoods have not been getting COVID-19 vaccines at the same rate as higher-income areas that have seen much lower rates of the virus.”

Toronto's COVID-19 vaccine rollout slower in low-income, hardest hit areas, data suggests

I trust we’re all clear on that, and know exactly what it means.

Edited June 9, 2021 by OftenWrong
link

[myata]

Our very own community "hotspot zone" (postal code) has several retirement homes and community housing projects that have seen outbreaks, and a large area of high value private homes. Of course with a smarter approach it should have been possible to perform targeted vaccinations in the specific places of higher risk but of course that isn't what happened (travel from Wuhan etc we should be getting used to it if it's plain common sense then no, something must be wrong with it). Somewhere there may even be a reason why it had to happen differently but will we ever know or even want to?

Anyways in the community group there were multiple postings inviting residents to vaccinate and my impression is that many did. What about the places of higher risk that were the cause of the special designation in the first place? I hope someone knows.

Edited June 9, 2021 by myata