Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

So you're saying they were sent back? How many? How do you know they didn't just fly to Singapore or Thailand and then to America?

 

Well over another million human beings were allowed in too and so was the virus.

No I'm just being intentionally accurate in how I word things so the information they convey is authentic.  Trump didn't do that and any idiot can see the intent of using the word banned was to convey the impression the virus was being stopped from coming into America. It wasn't stopped, Trump went on to heighten a false sense of security leading to the faster spread of the virus by telling everyone how it was all under control. It wasn't under control.  The reality is that well over a million other people flew into the US on thousands and thousands of flights and thru a screening process that was as patently useless as the so-called ban. It's inaccurate, misinforming and misleading to say there was a ban when there was merely the illusion of one.

Trying and maintain that illusion or stake your reputation on it to this day is just ridiculous.

You were busted for being intentionally inaccurate, the posts are there, you are a liar. Plain as day.

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You were busted for being intentionally inaccurate, the posts are there, you are a liar. Plain as day.

What inaccuracy? The last post you quoted reinforced my point. Most of the things you post as evidence do that.

What do you think the word ban actually means, have you checked a dictionary? I doubt Trump did.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

What inaccuracy? The last post you quoted reinforced my point. Most of the things you post as evidence do that.

What do you think the word ban actually means, have you checked a dictionary? I doubt Trump did.

You acted like the travel ban wasn't really a travel ban because 40K people came in after that. You were lying. There was an actual travel ban in effect on Jan 31st.

You just hoped that I didn't know that the people who came in were returning Americans, and not foreign visitors. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You acted like the travel ban wasn't really a travel ban because 40K people came in after that. You were lying. There was an actual travel ban in effect on Jan 31st.

You're acting like no human beings entered the US after Jan 31st.  You're insane.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You're acting like no human beings entered the US after Jan 31st.  You're insane.

Nope, I'm explaining how you were disingenuous to the point of being an actual 100% liar. 

Trump enacted a travel ban. Non-Americans were banned. There's no such thing as a travel ban where Americans can't come home. 

Did hospitals ban patients from having visitors in the covid ward of the hospital? Nope. People on palliative care were allowed to have a visitor. THERE WAS NO BAN ON VISITORS - according to your standards. 

[eyeball]

27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Nope, I'm explaining how you were disingenuous to the point of being an actual 100% liar. 

No the only thing that's disingenuous here is the use of the word ban and the intent to convey the sense the virus was being stopped, halted, interdicted, prohibited etc etc, from entering America.

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Trump enacted a travel ban. Non-Americans were banned. There's no such thing as a travel ban where Americans can't come home.

So only foreigners are diseased?  I guess I can see why people would regard this as racist.  I guess banning travel sounds less specific about what you're stopping, prohibiting, interdicting. halting etc etc.

Quote

Did hospitals ban patients from having visitors in the covid ward of the hospital? Nope. People on palliative care were allowed to have a visitor. THERE WAS NO BAN ON VISITORS - according to your standards.

You're perfectly right and there were exceptions to Trump's ban too, well over a million of them.  See how you often provide the means of your own undoing in these sorts of posts.  You're like a little kid covered in paint who points at the dog when asked who made the mess. You simply cannot help yourself.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

No the only thing that's disingenuous here is the use of the word ban and the intent to convey the sense the virus was being stopped, halted, interdicted, prohibited etc etc, from entering America.

So only foreigners are diseased?  I guess I can see why people would regard this as racist.  I guess banning travel sounds less specific about what you're stopping, prohibiting, interdicting. halting etc etc.

You're perfectly right and there were exceptions to Trump's ban too, well over a million of them.  See how you often provide the means of your own undoing in these sorts of posts.  You're like a little kid covered in paint who points at the dog when asked who made the mess. You simply cannot help yourself.

You lied, you got caught, now you're trying to weasel out of it.  

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You lied, you got caught, now you're trying to weasel out of it.  

Hmmm. 100% you say?

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, Rue said:

Well stated comeback. I myself am trying to avoid blaming except fofvth ed Chinese government.

Just to set the record straight, it is not a well-stated comeback when he said about me "I get the sense OftenWrong would maybe not under Trudeau but if Conservatives had been in charge, no problemo." Only a complete asshole would politicize my views on this worldwide catastrophe.

One who sits at home and is comfortable in his surroundings, blissfully unaware of what is happening elsewhere. Such ignorance and wilful blindness only supports and furthers other people's suffering, as this stupid shit we are doing drags on and on... even while numbers and facts clearly show otherwise.

Edited May 21, 2020 by OftenWrong

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

even while numbers and facts clearly show otherwise.

Numbers and facts clearly demonstrate that reducing the opportunity for people to gather together reduces the spread of Covid, which saves lives both because people don't die from this disease, or a secondary illness they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and our health system doesn't get so overwhelmed it can't address other emergencies or serious chronic conditions.   

So who are you accusing of "One who sits at home and is comfortable in his surroundings, blissfully unaware of what is happening elsewhere. Such ignorance and wilful blindness only supports and furthers other people's suffering,"?  

Because to me it looks like it's the people who complain about the restrictions who are being willfully ignorant and blind, and who would happily support other people's suffering, as long as they got to go to a restaurant or a park, or do whatever it is they think they are missing.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Just to set the record straight, it is not a well-stated comeback when he said about me "I get the sense OftenWrong would maybe not under Trudeau but if Conservatives had been in charge, no problemo." Only a complete asshole would politicize my views on this worldwide catastrophe.

You do that just fine yourself on a daily basis.   

Quote

One who sits at home and is comfortable in his surroundings, blissfully unaware of what is happening elsewhere.

Yes but look at the pleasant surroundings you're bravely sitting in while the rest of us cower in our warrens.  I'm sorry but I'm still LMAO of at your comment about real men and rabbits.

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

Dr Tam admitted to being an idiot:

https://torontosun.com/news/national/canada-waited-too-long-to-close-borders-canadas-top-doc

I tried to find CBC's coverage of this but it didn't come up on a quick google search.

 

Check out this bit of complete idiocy from Supriya Dwivedi of Global News regarding masks: 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6863614/coronavirus-theresa-tam-critics/

Quote

The underlying xenophobic sentiment is abhorrent, though that is not the point of this commentary. The crux of what Sloan said in both an initial video posted to Facebook and a subsequent email to supporters — that Dr. Tam was wrong on two specific issues: masks and travel bans — have been echoed by some conservative politicians and even some politicaland opinion journalists.

Guess what  Supriya Dwivedi you moron, the verdict is in and Canadians are banning travel and wearing masks, as per the instructions of our village idiot and his toadies. This moronic article has become proof that Conservative politicians are smarter than the WHO, the Liberal government, the mainstream media, and Canada's top public health officials. 

The only question remaining is, how many people died as a result of Trudeau's latest stupidity, how much longer will it take to get Canada's economy back in gear because of how widely covid spread, and how many tens or hundreds of billions of dollars it will cost us compared to if we had just used basic common sense BACK IN JANUARY?

Honestly it's no wonder Canadians are so stupid. They're being bombarded with idiotic propaganda on a daily basis, both from the gov't and the MSM.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

Numbers and facts clearly demonstrate that reducing the opportunity for people to gather together reduces the spread of Covid, which saves lives both because people don't die from this disease, or a secondary illness they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and our health system doesn't get so overwhelmed it can't address other emergencies or serious chronic conditions.   

So who are you accusing of "One who sits at home and is comfortable in his surroundings, blissfully unaware of what is happening elsewhere. Such ignorance and wilful blindness only supports and furthers other people's suffering,"?  

Because to me it looks like it's the people who complain about the restrictions who are being willfully ignorant and blind, and who would happily support other people's suffering, as long as they got to go to a restaurant or a park, or do whatever it is they think they are missing.

Juxtapose the content of your post into a crowded airport, with passengers arriving from Wuhan and Milan on Feb 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd,  24th, and for yet another 29 days before travel was finally banned. And just remember that as per the instruction of our government, people weren’t wearing masks that whole time.

Our government has finally admitted that they made a mistake to tell people not to wear masks, and to leave international travel open this whole time. 
 

What about you? Do you think that international flights should be pouring in right now, allowing travellers from all over the world to come into our crowded airport? Do you think that people should be in that confined space without wearing masks? Or do you think our government completely failed us? 
 

I’ve been aware of this since Jan 31st. At what point will you admit that our government bombarded us with covid, causing thousands of deaths and ten$ of billion$ of damage to the economy when so many other governments around the world were actually protecting their citizens from the pandemic? Places like Taiwan and Japan had specific travel bans, not complete travel bans like our government insisted was “the only way!!!”

 

Either you agree with me that Trudeau screwed us, or you think the airports should be going full bore right now. There’s no 3rd option. 

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Either you agree with me that Trudeau screwed us, or you think the airports should be going full bore right now.

When I look around the world and see other countries so much worse off than Canada, I think we're not doing half bad.  In terms of the spread of the virus, we're closer to the "best" than the "worst".  The States, on the other hand, is closer to the "worst" than the "best". 

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

There’s no 3rd option. 

This is a favorite trick of fanatics and extremists - only two choices, black or white, for me or against me, agree or it's all-out-war.  

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, dialamah said:

When I look around the world and see other countries so much worse off than Canada, I think we're not doing half bad.  In terms of the spread of the virus, we're closer to the "best" than the "worst".  The States, on the other hand, is closer to the "worst" than the "best". 

You're going back to this clueless tripe?

Canada has the world's 40th largest population, we're 200th in population density, and we're top ten in deaths from covid. By what fucking metric are we "Closer to the best????????" (39th, 187th 11th to be precise).

It's debatable if we are the worst country on the planet.

The US only has 15x as many covid deaths as we do, but they have 9x our population and population density. They also have the UN in NYC, which is one of the most densely populated places on earth. 

Quote

This is a favorite trick of fanatics and extremists - only two choices, black or white, for me or against me, agree or it's all-out-war.  

Nice of you to understand how people sometimes try to corner you into the prison of two ideas when that's not applicable, but I don't appreciate that you're insinuating that I'm an extremist or that I'm being intellectually dishonest.

FYI, in this case, it's absolutely applicable to make it a "one or the other" question, because there were only two possible courses of action involved. There wasn't a 3rd course of action, get it?

The government said "Don't wear masks". Now they say wear masks. What's the 3rd option genius? They never offered one. They didn't even say masks are optional they advised us NOT TO USE THEM. Was that right, was that wrong, or do you have a 3rd option that nobody else sees?

Banning travel was either right, or it was wrong. If it was kinda right, then why don't we kinda have it now? What 3rd option would you like in this scenario dialamah?

These are really easy questions that an entire kindergarten class could get 100% on.  

I understand that you don't like being put in a position where if you tell the truth you incriminate yourself, but the fact is that this is your just desserts for lying to begin with. Everyone in the country knew that leaving travel from China, and then Italy, etc, was incredibly stupid. You knew it. You pretended, along with Trudeau and his toadies, that somehow it made sense. They've finally admitted that they were wrong. You're still holding out. 

Quote

You talked about the tricks of extremists and then you post a logarithmic scale and leave it in the fine print. Most people won't interpret that graph correctly and that's why people like you choose it, to misrepresent Canada's covid problem. 

If we do a fair comparison of Canada covid cases to Japan covid cases:

Japan had less than 20,000 cases and less than 800 deaths.

Canada had 5x as many cases and almost 8x as many deaths. 

One in 470 people got covid in Canada, one in 6,200 Canadians died of covid.

One in 6,300 Japanese got covid. One in 158,000 Japanese died of covid.

We had 13x the per capita infection rate and 25x the per capita death rate of Japan, yet they have 84 times our population density. The entire population of Canada is in the Tokyo metropolitan area.

If Japan just had our per capita death rate they'd have 20,400 deaths. That's 19,600 extra deaths. THIS DOESN"T EVEN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT THEY HAVE 84X OUR POPULATION DENSITY!!!!!! If Abe followed Trudeau's model for "fighting" covid the death toll in Japan would be off the charts. 

Here's a fairer comp of Canada vs the US from Maclean's magazine:

 

 

[Argus]

12 hours ago, dialamah said:

When I look around the world and see other countries so much worse off than Canada, I think we're not doing half bad. 

On the contrary. We are, in fact, doing 'half bad'. Or half good, depending on your outlook.

But we're not doing good. We did not have intelligent, thoughtful government which planned for disasters and took immediate action. We are C students. I take no particular pride in that.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I take no particular pride in that.

There doesn't seem to be much about Canada that you do take pride in. 

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Most people won't interpret that graph correctly and that's why people like you choose it, to misrepresent Canada's covid problem. 

I included the link so people could look at the fine print.  Of course "people like you" prefer to misrepresent anyone with whom they disagree.

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

We had

We're not done and the final results of who lost the fewest possible people, followed the best policies and had the least economic damage is considerably farther in the future.

[Argus]

38 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There doesn't seem to be much about Canada that you do take pride in.

There isn't a lot about present-day Canada or the direction its headed to take pride in. But certainly nothing about its politicians - at any level - could bring anyone sane any amount of pride.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

...If Japan just had our per capita death rate they'd have 20,400 deaths. That's 19,600 extra deaths. THIS DOESN"T EVEN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT THEY HAVE 84X OUR POPULATION DENSITY!!!!!! If Abe followed Trudeau's model for "fighting" covid the death toll in Japan would be off the charts. 

Here's a fairer comp of Canada vs the US from Maclean's magazine:

 

That's all that matters for some people here....comparison to the U.S., no matter what the issue is, and no matter how badly Canada is doing.  

It is in Canada's historic DNA to do so.

 

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You talked about the tricks of extremists and then you post a logarithmic scale and leave it in the fine print. Most people won't interpret that graph correctly and that's why people like you choose it, to misrepresent Canada's covid problem. 

Well done. It underscores why such information, numbers stats and graphs shouldn't be shown to ignorant people who don't know how to analyze data, let alone first figure out what the baseline is. May as well give a calculator to a monkey.

Edited May 22, 2020 by OftenWrong

[WestCanMan]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

That's all that matters for some people here....comparison to the U.S., no matter what the issue is, and no matter how badly Canada is doing.  

It is in Canada's historic DNA to do so.

The comparison to the US really works for some people here because it's a totally misleading comparison, and that's what people are looking for. A chance to make Trudeau look good by providing a comp that is totally misleading. 

The countries are the same size, geographically close, the culture is similar, so on the surface the comp looks valid. A quick look at the NY metropolitan area vs Canada blows that theory out of the water though, so people here choose to ignore it.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I included the link so people could look at the fine print.  Of course "people like you" prefer to misrepresent anyone with whom they disagree.

Well, to be honest, if you know how to interpret that graph, and what it truly means, it's basically just a colorful nothing as far as this topic is concerned.

I could compare Greenland to Canada on a graph too. It would be equally worthless.

Quote

We're not done and the final results of who lost the fewest possible people, followed the best policies and had the least economic damage is considerably farther in the future.

We're far enough along the curve to know what's up right now dialamah. 

We've come to the stage where our preparedness and early actions have resulted in a certain "order of magnitude" of casualties and deaths. We have set the course for the future, based on how widely the virus managed to spread in our various countries. Canada got covid spread far and wide. That's no small task with 10M sq km to cover. 

 

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

May as well give a calculator to a monkey.

LMAO, too true.

Although I have had my "moments" with scientific and mortgage calculators. 

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Well done. It underscores why such information, numbers stats and graphs shouldn't be shown to ignorant people who don't know how to analyze data, let alone first figure out what the baseline is. May as well give a calculator to a monkey.

That's why we have experts and science. All we really need beyond that are politicians who have the sense to know their limits learn to listen and give more weight to expert scientific advice than their own and in so doing set a better more reasoned example for society to follow.

[OftenWrong]

47 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's why we have experts and science. All we really need beyond that are politicians who have the sense to know their limits learn to listen and give more weight to expert scientific advice than their own and in so doing set a better more reasoned example for society to follow.

It’s too bad these days even the experts and scientists are politicians themselves.