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As I said earlier we here in Finland have been very fortunate concerning the virus especially when compared to Sweden. Many people are trying to spin it so that it is because our socialist feminist government is so wonderful so that they defeated the virus and kept the country safe. Well, if listening to such rubbish is the price we have to pay for getting away lightly I consider it a price worth paying.

In reality though the virus-crisis has showed once again how remote and unimportant a country Finland still is. Many people consider being remote and unimportant something to be embarassed about even if it was the very thing which keeps you safe.

Tomorrow a lot of things begin to open up again including restaurants and bars. With limited hours though. Indoor sport-facilities too. I have really missed going to the gym. Actually the only thing I have missed. 

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Once reopening expands so will the spread of the virus.  The question at that point is, do we maintain the openings with careful policy and monitor the case levels to ensure we don’t overwhelm the health system or do we reactively shut down again and retreat to shut-in life?  I don’t think the second option is wise or healthy in the long run.  Perhaps some local closures will need to take place.  Perhaps if there’s a large surge of cases, at the start of flu season for example, there will have to be widespread closures, but these must be temporary.  With testing and tracking more widespread, we should be better positioned to contain outbreaks.  At worst, we may simply do all of this while accepting the slow spread of the virus until herd immunity is achieved, which is the Swedish plan.

In the long run, without the miraculously fast arrival of an effective treatment or vaccine, the Swedish approach may be best, with fewer non-Covid deaths and mental health challenges and better economic and education outcomes.  Hiding away is unsustainable.

https://apple.news/AuGN0mzVtT3CO2YSuH1GOiw

Edited by Zeitgeist
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6 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

Where do you get your information from ? I thought Alex Jones is off the air.

There are hundreds of websites on the internet besides the Alex Jones website one. I just checked on the internet for you and apparently Alex Jones is still out there talking away about his conspiracies. I do not follow Alex Jones. But I do follow The RightEdition, The Rebel, and the Amazingpolly websites plus a few more. When I listened to them all and what they have to say they give me hope that one day the many dummy trained seal Canadians out there will finally wake up from their brainwashing slumber. The corona virus is a hoax. ;)

 

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15 minutes ago, taxme said:

There are hundreds of websites on the internet besides the Alex Jones website one. I just checked on the internet for you and apparently Alex Jones is still out there talking away about his conspiracies. I do not follow Alex Jones. But I do follow The RightEdition, The Rebel, and the Amazingpolly websites plus a few more. When I listened to them all and what they have to say they give me hope that one day the many dummy trained seal Canadians out there will finally wake up from their brainwashing slumber. The corona virus is a hoax. ;)

 

Hell is a place with no reason and you just took me to hell with what I read.

We are all brainwashed one way or another, some of us realize it, some of us don't and become arrogant thinking we have the whole truth.

Edited by Independent1986
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6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

  What you have to start taking seriously, eyeball, is that these people are not reachable.  The window has moved so much that we're now in the era of street violence to resolve social issues.  Politics has ended: they couldn't even use it to unify people on a common pandemic so they will have to just wait to see who wins the street fight.

 
  As I have said, you can't look inside a person's heart.  So, they may not be wilfully lying.   They might just be delusional, wilfully ignorant, and stupid ... if we are being optimistic here.

No, because the question is based on the wrong premise entirely. That is why nobody wants to answer his question.

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4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Once reopening expands so will the spread of the virus.  The question at that point is, do we maintain the openings with careful policy and monitor the case levels to ensure we don’t overwhelm the health system or do we reactively shut down again and retreat to shut-in life?  I don’t think the second option is wise or healthy in the long run.  Perhaps some local closures will need to take place.  Perhaps if there’s a large surge of cases, at the start of flu season for example, there will have to be widespread closures, but these must be temporary.  With testing and tracking more widespread, we should be better positioned to contain outbreaks.  At worst, we may simply do all of this while accepting the slow spread of the virus until herd immunity is achieved, which is the Swedish plan.

In the long run, without the miraculously fast arrival of an effective treatment or vaccine, the Swedish approach may be best, with fewer non-Covid deaths and mental health challenges and better economic and education outcomes.  Hiding away is unsustainable.

https://apple.news/AuGN0mzVtT3CO2YSuH1GOiw

Good question but it seems the virus is dwindling anyway, despite our best efforts to make the most of it. It may increase only slightly, as the age-distribution does not support that a huge outbreak could suddenly occur.

Another question is, shall we keep counting the number of people dying in old age homes, and not do anything about that, and use it to justify shutting down society?

Edited by OftenWrong
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11 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Hell is a place with no reason and you just took me to hell with what I read.

We are all brainwashed one way or another, some of us realize it, some of us don't and become arrogant thinking we have the whole truth.

What everyone needs to do is to start to look and read both sides of any story. To only know one side of the story is to know nothing at all. There will only be one true and honest side to any story. That is where one must decide by starting to use their intelligence and to start using the common sense and logic that they were born with. If one is only going to listen to their politicians and the main stream media, and what they have to say, and ignore what the alternative media has to say is playing right into the MSM lying hands. The MSM has proven itself over and over again that they can lie and bull chit a lot and they do like to exaggerate an incident or event as much as they can and blow any incident or event way out of proportion. 

This plandemic has been blown way out of proportion by the leftist lieberal media in Canada. We have been told by the media that if we do not practice social distancing, stay at home, and wear a mask when one goes outside then there is a good chance that they will all pretty much die.  Such bull chit that most people now believe. In BC.  

Out of a population of just under 5 million people in BC there have only been 182 deaths to this so called China virus. That number of deaths is not what I would call staggering. No doubt that same number of people die every year from the regular seasonal flu bug that comes by every year in the fall. 

The truth is out there and all one ahs to do is go looking for it on the internet as one source. There are plenty of doctors that have denied that this is some kind of a virus plague going on here. The globalists like Gates to hell, Fauci, Birx, the media, the politicians, the health officials appear to all be working together with the WHO and China to keep pushing this China hoax of a virus. Now that alone is worth really investigating. Amazingpolly is one website where people should go visit, and get the other side of the story. Amazingpolly website is not for people who do not want to get to know the other side of the story. They still want to live and believe in the tooth fairy China virus is all for real. They have become well trained China virus bunch of Canadian seals. Just saying. ;)

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If the number of infections doesn't start climbing up soon after tomorrow as things are beginning to open up again I'm inclined to believe it has all been bullshit all along. All those businesses have been forced to close for nothing.

But let's see how it goes.

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6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Good question but it seems the virus is dwindling anyway, despite our best efforts to make the most of it. It may increase only slightly, as the age-distribution does not support that a huge outbreak could suddenly occur.

Another question is, shall we keep counting the number of people dying in old age homes, and not do anything about that, and use it to justify shutting down society?

Approx. 182 people have supposedly died in BC out of a population of just under 5 million from this China virus. Not a very high staggering number of people that have died from this virus or that we should all be worried about. But yet we have pretty much allowed our lying politicians, the lying media, and the lying health officials to convince us all that we have a serious plague going on here. Our society, our economy and the sanity of the people of Canada and BC will have suffered more than what this plandemic could have ever done. We need herd immunity but our dear leaders, and the lying media, and the our so called health officials are not allowing this to happen. It's summer time. Open it all up and let's see what happens. If people start dying by the thousands in BC alone then we will have to plan and do something about it. But until then, end social distancing and open everything up with no restrictions. Works well for me. ;)

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4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Once reopening expands so will the spread of the virus.  The question at that point is, do we maintain the openings with careful policy and monitor the case levels to ensure we don’t overwhelm the health system or do we reactively shut down again and retreat to shut-in life?  I don’t think the second option is wise or healthy in the long run.  Perhaps some local closures will need to take place.  Perhaps if there’s a large surge of cases, at the start of flu season for example, there will have to be widespread closures, but these must be temporary.  With testing and tracking more widespread, we should be better positioned to contain outbreaks.  At worst, we may simply do all of this while accepting the slow spread of the virus until herd immunity is achieved, which is the Swedish plan.

In the long run, without the miraculously fast arrival of an effective treatment or vaccine, the Swedish approach may be best, with fewer non-Covid deaths and mental health challenges and better economic and education outcomes.  Hiding away is unsustainable.

https://apple.news/AuGN0mzVtT3CO2YSuH1GOiw

How does anyone know as to whether things could get better or worse if they do not open everything up. Locking people down and practicing social distancing is not telling us anything at all that the virus will or will not spread unless we go back to what we once knew as the old normal. It's party time! The new normal is not working as far as anyone knows because no one knows if it is really working by staying at home or not, social distancing or not, and wearing a mask or not. Those three just mentioned appears now to be the new political correctness of  the day. Do as we say and tell you what to do or else. You could either be fined, jailed or even die. It does appear as though our dear politicians , our media, and our health officials have all now become comrade diktators of one kind or another. 

If everybody does as they are being told and businesses are now allowed to reopen, I doubt very much that our politicians or our health officials will dare try and shut everything down once again in the fall. There will be a people's revolt for sure. I am pretty sure that people will not be willing to go thru what we have all gone thru in the past three months and want to go thru it all again. If a large surge happens again in the fall it will no doubt be just another false flag being started up again by the likes of Gates to hell globalist Billy boy who really wants to come up with a China virus vaccine so he can make hundreds of billions of dollars injecting his shit into anyone's body who wants to inject take his shit in themselves. I certainly will not be injecting myself with any vaccine. I have not had a vaccine shot since I was a kid. So far, so good. Lol.

The Swedish plan appears to have worked. What is needed now is herd immunity. It will be the only way to find out if herd immunity will work or will be a disaster. As far as I am concerned this all must end now for all of our sanity. Our sanity and our health and our children's health depends on this plandemic exercise hoax to end. Our politicians, the media and those health officials already know, or some have to be stupid to not know, that this is all just a hoax of a joke being played on the fools who will believe this hoax of a lie.  Just my opinion of course. ;)

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7 hours ago, -TSS- said:

As I said earlier we here in Finland have been very fortunate concerning the virus especially when compared to Sweden. Many people are trying to spin it so that it is because our socialist feminist government is so wonderful so that they defeated the virus and kept the country safe. Well, if listening to such rubbish is the price we have to pay for getting away lightly I consider it a price worth paying.

In reality though the virus-crisis has showed once again how remote and unimportant a country Finland still is. Many people consider being remote and unimportant something to be embarassed about even if it was the very thing which keeps you safe.

Tomorrow a lot of things begin to open up again including restaurants and bars. With limited hours though. Indoor sport-facilities too. I have really missed going to the gym. Actually the only thing I have missed. 

Lol I find you important!  I visited Helsinki.  I am a Montreal Canadiens fan. Saku Koivu. We loved him! 

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1 hour ago, -TSS- said:

If the number of infections doesn't start climbing up soon after tomorrow as things are beginning to open up again I'm inclined to believe it has all been bullshit all along. All those businesses have been forced to close for nothing.

But let's see how it goes.

It's still a problem in Toronto and Mississauga where I live.

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3 hours ago, taxme said:

What everyone needs to do is to start to look and read both sides of any story. To only know one side of the story is to know nothing at all. There will only be one true and honest side to any story. That is where one must decide by starting to use their intelligence and to start using the common sense and logic that they were born with. If one is only going to listen to their politicians and the main stream media, and what they have to say, and ignore what the alternative media has to say is playing right into the MSM lying hands. The MSM has proven itself over and over again that they can lie and bull chit a lot and they do like to exaggerate an incident or event as much as they can and blow any incident or event way out of proportion. 

 

You think the rebel media has the truth ? or Breitbart ? Let me give you a hint the moment you say I believe 100 % this is the truth you are no longer free, you gave your mind to be brainwashed by something or someone as the truth is a little bit in everything. Freedom is in the search not in the perceived destination.

I believe people like yourself should be allowed to say their opinion because extremism is born when people are shut down and isolated because of the kind of stuff that you wrote. If it makes you feel good to blame Soros, globalists, aliens, the kabala, The Pope so be it as long as you don't impose it on me.

Edited by Independent1986
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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What is the question again ?

How could China and the WHO be in collusion over lying about COVID-19 when so many Americans were also working there? I'm to believe the US spent over $500 million on the place and were in no position to know anything about it?

If yes that simply raises the WTF bar to the next level and asks who's responsible for that equally glaring lack of oversight?

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On 5/28/2020 at 10:24 PM, OftenWrong said:

85 % in old age homes. Note that only the public ones were reported in this figure. Let's say the private ones add a few percent more. The remainder is comprised of many elderly who died at home as well.

That is what I read on CBC, but it is hard to find good age-specific data.

Here is a sample:

5e6a7b2584159f1962421227?width=700&forma

Another graph is shown here:
COVID-CFR-by-age-710x550.png

 

Note that most of the working-age people in the graph fall in the age group 30 up to 50-59. Yet these are the very people who are being kept home.
In reality it seems many of them got the virus anyway, presumably many who didn't even know. But I digress.

The bar graph shows we are doing exactly the wrong things, keeping people at home who have very low incidence of death due to virus, and not quarantining those age 60+, and not separating those in old age homes.

Rather than send every Canadian home with $2000 a month, that money could have been spent to renovate a stadium into a hospital and move the old folks in. But then, guess what? Chances are they would have died anyway. Because at that age there is no way to save them, for the most part they are finished.

That is why our government didn't bother to do this. They know the truth but won't admit it. Anyone who has old parents or family in old age homes knows the truth as well. Yes, people go there because they will soon die.

If you agree with this, then we should all be going back to work on Monday. Have a nice weekend.

This analysis ignores what happened in places where the virus did get a solid foothold and caused deaths from the virus to overwhelm healthcare systems and skyrocket death figures, forcing them to shut down anyway.  

Societies didn't do this for shits and giggle. 

As I've repeatedly said, people who are looking at numbers now as evidence these actions weren't required are simply playing this results. Had healthcare systems collapsed because we valued service sector industries over lives, then we may be having a far different discussion right now. 

Edited by Boges
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18 minutes ago, Boges said:

This analysis ignores what happened in places where the virus did get a solid foothold and caused deaths from the virus to overwhelm healthcare systems and skyrocket death figures, forcing them to shut down anyway. 

What do you mean? Italy and SPain are not places where the virus got a strong foothold?

If you have evidence of a different age distribution, please provide it.  "Solid foothold causing deaths" is hyperbole without a baseline and more information about the deaths. It's the same sweeping generalization coming from politicians lips that got us into this trouble.

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3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

What do you mean? Italy and SPain are not places where the virus got a strong foothold?

If you have evidence of a different age distribution, please provide it.  "Solid foothold causing deaths" is hyperbole without a baseline and more information about the deaths. It's the same sweeping generalization coming from politicians lips that got us into this trouble.

The age issues are irrelevant when a healthcare system is overwhelmed. 

People of all ages and health concerns then die from otherwise preventable causes. 

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13 minutes ago, Boges said:

The age issues are irrelevant when a healthcare system is overwhelmed. 

People of all ages and health concerns then die from otherwise preventable causes. 

Yeah that's a good point, but it seems you've kind of turned the tables on the argument.

-> People of all ages and health concerns then die from otherwise preventable causes. 

We are doing that now, arguably, whilst the health care system remains substantially underwhelmed, if that's a word.
It's my understanding the problem in Italy was their health care system was already pre-overwhelmed. And then along came Mary.

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11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yeah that's a good point, but it seems you've kind of turned the tables on the argument.

-> People of all ages and health concerns then die from otherwise preventable causes. 

We are doing that now, arguably, whilst the health care system remains substantially underwhelmed, if that's a word.
It's my understanding the problem in Italy was their health care system was already pre-overwhelmed. And then along came Mary.

That's the situation we're in too.  As much as anything we're coping with an unpreparedness brought about by having lived in a stingy heartless economy for decades.  I for one have no issue with having this rubbed in society's nose to the extent it forces people like yourself to flesh out and rationalize the inhumanity required to keep the economy afloat.

People are being forced to ask should the economy trump virtue and why.

Edited by eyeball
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1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Yeah that's a good point, but it seems you've kind of turned the tables on the argument.

-> People of all ages and health concerns then die from otherwise preventable causes. 

We are doing that now, arguably, whilst the health care system remains substantially underwhelmed, if that's a word.
It's my understanding the problem in Italy was their health care system was already pre-overwhelmed. And then along came Mary.

I think we should start re-opening. I readily concede that the narrative on why this was done has kind of lost the plot. This was about protecting healthcare, not creating a bubble around the population. We're not going to eliminate this virus by staying at home. But we've bought ourselves some time and now we understand how to treat it better. I do think most people are keenly aware that they should be keeping distance and maintaining good hygiene while in public. 

Most places have started to re-open. 

I think where we'll continue to have problems are with industries that involve large gatherings. (Gyms, Restaurants, Concerts, Festivals, Sports). Those things are going to take awhile to get back to "normal". 

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12 minutes ago, Boges said:

 I do think most people are keenly aware that they should be keeping distance and maintaining good hygiene while in public.

Perhaps one reason I find it astonishing that we need to be taught so well, as I was always in the habit of not standing extremely close to people, or when in a crowd not blowing directly into people's faces, or letting them blow into mine.

As to washing hands, same issue. I find it astonishing, as my mom taught me to do this starting when I was probably around 2 years old. Over the years I became very good at it, indeed.

 

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That's the situation we're in too.  As much as anything we're coping with an unpreparedness brought about by having lived in a stingy heartless economy for decades. 

Complete nonsense.  

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