The Coronavirus

[Iceni warrior]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why don't we just kill the rich people and seize their assets to pay laid off workers ?  That would kill far fewer people ?

Of course I am playing devil's advocate.  I am far too much a Centrist to advocate revolution in 2020.  2021 is a different story of course....

Let's not completely discount that option until we have heard all the pro's and con's.

[Iceni warrior]

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

I agree, but people will only go to places that are naturally beautiful. It's the catch 22 of tourism. Tourism forces places to preserve their natural beauty and not abuse it. 

That's not necessarily true. Places like Thailand exploit certain beautiful locations until they are spoilt and then simply move on to the next unspoilt location along the coast. The resources are used up and pollutants are spilled into the environment. Untreated sewage and massive use of fresh water are prime examples.

[Iceni warrior]

11 minutes ago, Shady said:

THE 1.5% FATALITY RATE IS IF WE DID NOTHING.  NOBODY IS SUGGESTING OPENING THE ECONOMY BACK UP DOING NOTHING!

No need to shout, we heard you the first time.

However the 1.5% fatality rate would have been higher if health services had been swamped and social distancing won't work on its own. We need much better testing and tracking to prevent new outbreaks and a lot more PPE before we can safely re-open. The numbers of new infections also need to be a lot lower than they are right now too.

[Boges]

Italy is seeing a mortality rate around 10%

Overwhelming the Healthcare system perpetuates the problem. 

[Boges]

49 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Perhaps not if they have to claw back the losses they have suffered or have to fly half empty planes due to a reluctancy of people to cram into small spaces while a potentially fatal virus is still doing the rounds.

There are likely to be fewer airlines too by the end of all this.

And now that people are being forced to teleconference, business travel will most certainly suffer. 

[Argus]

59 minutes ago, Boges said:

1.5% of 35 million is around 50,000 people. Again above and beyond deaths from traditional causes.

It would actually be 525,000

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

It would actually be 525,000

Oh, much worse. 

Never claimed to be good at Maths. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

WHY IS THAT STILL SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO COMPREHEND????

Sorry - I was repying to Boges not you.  Plenty of people are carrying signs that indicate they just want to go back to work.  Their opinions matter, and so we should use every tool in our toolbag to counter them including ridicule if effective.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Iceni warrior said:

Let's not completely discount that option until we have heard all the pro's and con's.

Sure, but there needs to be a cost benefit analysis...

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

And now that people are being forced to teleconference, business travel will most certainly suffer. 

but that in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.  We'll likely see less need for business travel and more web-conferencing as a result.  Now that I've fully embraced it with my business, it's likely going to cut my travel expenses in half.  Now instead of meeting some clients far away 2-3 times a year, maybe I only have to go once and we can web-chat.  

There will be good changes that come out of this, but also some painful ones.  

 

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

People are tying to say what I`ve been saying. Will they be heard, or will you dismiss them a Nazis, as you have done to me.

Awwww.

Look, I've been called a Nazi for years too for pointing out why the merest of straws will be all it takes to break our camel's back.  Have I been heard? I doubt it. You'll get over it too.

[WestCanMan]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry - I was repying to Boges not you.  Plenty of people are carrying signs that indicate they just want to go back to work.  Their opinions matter, and so we should use every tool in our toolbag to counter them including ridicule if effective.

Maybe just leaving everything shut down no matter what the cost to businesses and the economy is the best option for you. That doesn't actually make it the best option for the entire country. 

Covid is killing people who are very near death.

The people who are spared death by covid if the economy goes into the tank get to live on and watch the lives of their children and grandchildren come unravelled. 

When/if I'm 80 I'll gladly take the risk of getting another covid to save my family from homelessness. 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Shady said:

Exactly.  For some reason some people can't grasp the concept of re-opening the economy, but at the same time having a policy of mitigation and social distancing in place.  It's either lockdown or completely open like before the pandemic started.  I'm not sure if they're just really dumb, or purposely being obtuse.

People grasp it fine, it's the span of time between ending lockdowns and being completely open that's at issue.  Some want to wait for the vaccine others don't.

It comes down to people vs economy and I think it's completely natural that people will tend to say to themselves there's more to life than money so wait it out.

Edited April 22, 2020 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It comes down to people vs economy and I think it's completely natural that people will tend to say to themselves there's more to life than money so wait it out.

 

The same people will be bitching mightily about how much their lives were destroyed because the economy was purposely shut down.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The same people will be bitching mightily about how much their lives were destroyed because the economy was purposely shut down.

I'm quite certain if their lives aren't destroyed they'll soon find something else to bitch about.

[Boges]

Ahhh so the narrative now is that because only people 80 plus are dying (which isn't true), we should allow for the herd to be culled. 

Completely ignoring what having large swaths of the working public very sick would do to the economy. 

I guess we can just go back to telling them to suck it up and work sick. . . making the problem worse. 

I love the idea that Old people should choose between living or seeing their children's lives ruined. How Christian. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Boges

[Shady]

if Provincial liquor stores can be open, while practicing mitigation and social distancing, with gloves, masks, sanitizer, etc, than private sector businesses should have the right to do the same.  This is insane.

[Shady]

42 minutes ago, eyeball said:

People grasp it fine, it's the span of time between ending lockdowns and being completely open that's at issue.  Some want to wait for the vaccine others don't.

It comes down to people vs economy and I think it's completely natural that people will tend to say to themselves there's more to life than money so wait it out.

It’s not an either or.  It’s not a choice between life and the economy.  But if somebody feels that way, then absolutely they should remain in quarantine.  High risk people should anyways.  But for most people, working while practicing mitigation and social distancing is a viable option.  Banks, liquor stores, pet stores, grocery stores, coffee shops, etc don’t seem to have a problem with it.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, Shady said:

It’s not an either or.  It’s not a choice between life and the economy.  But if somebody feels that way, then absolutely they should remain in quarantine.  High risk people should anyways.  But for most people, working while practicing mitigation and social distancing is a viable option.  Banks, liquor stores, pet stores, grocery stores, coffee shops, etc don’t seem to have a problem with it.

Sure they do, you'd have to be blind to miss the stress people in these stores are feeling.  Most seem to be the strongest advocates for even more restrictions, notwithstanding the ones who are letting their resentment towards slackers being paid to stay home gnaw away at them. 

[Boges]

18 minutes ago, Shady said:

if Provincial liquor stores can be open, while practicing mitigation and social distancing, with gloves, masks, sanitizer, etc, than private sector businesses should have the right to do the same.  This is insane.

So non-essential retail? Sure. But what if it's in a mall? 

And what about retail where Social Distancing is impossible? 

[Iceni warrior]

12 minutes ago, Shady said:

It’s not an either or.  It’s not a choice between life and the economy.  But if somebody feels that way, then absolutely they should remain in quarantine.  High risk people should anyways.  But for most people, working while practicing mitigation and social distancing is a viable option.  Banks, liquor stores, pet stores, grocery stores, coffee shops, etc don’t seem to have a problem with it.

In the meantime, London has lost more bus drivers to the bug than doctors. Buses crammed full of construction workers because they felt that they should be able to go to work if they wanted to and could keep 6' apart when they got there.

The bus drivers who died weren't elderly or near the end of their lives, they left behind families who now have their lives ruined.

We're talking about a few weeks here, time to let the infection rates drop, time to get our shit together with testing and providing PPE for everyone who needs it.

What people don't seem to realise is that if things open up and the death rate starts to climb we'll just have to shut down again prolonging the whole thing even longer.

[OftenWrong]

18 minutes ago, Boges said:

So non-essential retail? Sure. But what if it's in a mall? 

And what about retail where Social Distancing is impossible? 

Those should be technical problems we can solve. Let the ones who can open safely do so right away. The others just have some more issues to work out.

[Boges]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Those should be technical problems we can solve. Let the ones who can open safely do so right away. The others just have some more issues to work out.

And they'll have to be solved. 

But what type of businesses are we talking about here? Certainly not Hair Salons, Movie theatres or bars. 

Perhaps clothing outlets and other small scale retail, but those places were dying a slow death already. I don't know too many people who would endure getting in a line wearing a mask and gloves to buy a new pair of jeans.

What I think this has done is to force people to move much of their retail online. Because we can certainly still buy all that stuff online. 

What I'd like to see open up sooner than later is the ability to use a park, and allowing contractors to do more than just emergency business.  

[New World Disorder]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry - I was repying to Boges not you.  Plenty of people are carrying signs that indicate they just want to go back to work.  Their opinions matter, and so we should use every tool in our toolbag to counter them including ridicule if effective.

I would love to go back to work as well. Being deemed unessential was quite the blow. Still waiting some grocery stores to call back. This gravy train the government is running will eventually run out of steam. Oh and money.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

This gravy train the government is running will eventually run out of steam. Oh and money.

Why? Did the printing press break?

Edited April 22, 2020 by eyeball