The Coronavirus

[OftenWrong]

31 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

I'm just left wondering if anyone is really stupid enough to think it's not highly contagious.

Let me help you put your mind at ease. You don't need to argue this point. I hardly see anyone who thinks it. We can all see how this virus is bad and must be safeguarded against. All viruses that kill in this manner should be, wouldn't you agree? Maybe not. It's the method of total quarantine that's debatable.

 

[scribblet]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Let me help you put your mind at ease. You don't need to argue this point. I hardly see anyone who thinks it. We can all see how this virus is bad and must be safeguarded against. All viruses that kill in this manner should be, wouldn't you agree? Maybe not. It's the method of total quarantine that's debatable.

I don't know  anyone or have read anywhere of anyone believing it is not highly contagious, why would anyone think or imply otherwise?

[Argus]

59 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I heard tell that Mr Trudeau announced these measures will not subside until someone develops a vaccine for the virus.

Some social distancing will continue, but there is no way in hell they can keep the economy half shut down for eighteen months, nor even six.

[scribblet]

True, so I wonder what they have in mind, if anything.   One thing coming out of this is the recognition that we should not be relying on China and that manufacturing should return home.   Japan is looking at this also, so  Karma for China.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-08/japan-to-fund-firms-to-shift-production-out-of-china

 

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Some social distancing will continue, but there is no way in hell they can keep the economy half shut down for eighteen months, nor even six.

I totally agree with this.  People standing 6 feet away in lines will continue, so will wearing masks or gloves, washing hands and using hand sanitizer.  Some of that will continue and should continue even after there’s a vaccine.

[OftenWrong]

44 minutes ago, Argus said:

Some social distancing will continue, but there is no way in hell they can keep the economy half shut down for eighteen months, nor even six.

Right, so the virus doesn't need to be defeated, just normalized. Think of the virus as not so bad, we can live with it along with a few rules about infection control.

Let's not fear the virus, but think of it more as a friend who disagrees with us.

[cannuck]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I heard tell that Mr Trudeau announced these measures will not subside until someone develops a vaccine for the virus. That person will be a very rich man. Or woman. Never mind the bollocks for now.

Anyone know how long it will take to develop a vaccine?

You would think with the coronavirus strain being around as long as it has been, they would have developed one years ago.

There are a number of vaccines in trials now (one from the company that works with IIRC Laval University guys and gals.  They are the same company that developed the Ebola vaccine, and the Wuhan Virus vaccine is done the same way (innoculating agro bacteria that is picked up in plants).  Essentially, the genetically engineer a clone of the OUTSIDE of the Corona Virus, but there is no genetic material INSIDE to infect the host.

[Zeitgeist]

I think that trying to keep people at this level of quarantine until we find a vaccine is utterly dysfunctional, stupid, and unnecessary.  We’re going to have to get back to work in the midst of the virus and manage a certain level of ongoing infection.  The vulnerable will have to be more careful and the workplace will have smaller groupings.  The two-meter social distancing may be be maintained for a while then will be gradually reduced.  We can’t have most people continuously stuck in their homes.  It’s not healthy.   

Edited April 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Moonlight Graham]

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think that trying to keep people at this level of quarantine until we find a vaccine is utterly dysfunctional, stupid, and unnecessary.  We’re going to have to get back to work in the midst of the virus and manage a certain level of ongoing infection.  The vulnerable will have to be more careful and the workplace will have smaller groupings.  The two-meter social distancing may be be maintained for a while then will be gradually reduced.  We can’t have most people continuously stuck in their homes.  It’s not healthy.   

Suffocating to death because of a lung virus is also not healthy.   Seinfeld re-runs are better than death.

[Zeitgeist]

47 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Suffocating to death because of a lung virus is also not healthy.   Seinfeld re-runs are better than death.

I disagree if it means people shooting themselves and each other in homes and dying of non-viral illnesses.  Get the numbers of new infections close to zero or zero (fleeting as it will be), then open back up in a controlled manner within the next two months.  Any longer is a greater indignity than is justified.

I think Canadians should be very concerned about what Trudeau just said:: “This will be the new normal until a vaccine is developed.”

No , we cannot have most people stuck in their homes for many months.  That is a terrible plan for public health, let alone the economy.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

19 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

That’s why the flu kills ten times more than we currently have counted, year after year. It is a bigger deal than this in fact, yet we don’t care.

”We” being ordinary people who don’t work in health care and never hear about these outbreaks. They occur every year on the scale you are seeing now.

Every year there are massive shortages of PPE, swamped emergency wards, refrigerated trucks full of bodies, mass graves?

Bullshit.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Every year there are massive shortages of PPE, swamped emergency wards, refrigerated trucks full of bodies, mass graves?

Bullshit.

Those problems are occurring in countries that already have poor health care, are already almost at 100 % capacity before the virus came along. You are blissfully unaware of that of course.

We get flu deaths up to 700,000 a year, and that's year on year and without you cowering under the bed. Now that you and other unwashed people know that viruses exist, I hope you will treat them with respect in the future. But naah, you probably won't. The virus will fizzle out and within a short time people will go back to routine. They will learn that a virus is far too inconvenient to deal with like this in the long run. They will learn to live with the virus in peace and harmony.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Those problems are occurring in countries that already have poor health care, are already almost at 100 % capacity before the virus came along. You are blissfully unaware of that of course.

We get flu deaths up to 700,000 a year, and that's year on year and without you cowering under the bed. Now that you and other unwashed people know that viruses exist, I hope you will treat them with respect in the future. But naah, you probably won't. The virus will fizzle out and within a short time people will go back to routine. They will learn that a virus is far too inconvenient to deal with like this in the long run. They will learn to live with the virus in peace and harmony.

Do you think you should tell them?  All this could be over by the end of the weekend if you just tell everyone it's no worse than the flu.  Start in New York.

[Rue]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Do you think you should tell them?  All this could be over by the end of the weekend if you just tell everyone it's no worse than the flu.  Start in New York.

He did not say it's no worse than the flu..that is your construct using words such as "worse" or "better"when comparing death rates. In the sense he uses it all viruses are equally as problematic or what you call "worse".

He is trying to explain  the current  covid virus death rates are not higher than other virus deaths...the issue as to the covid  virus is not that it kills more but that it is harder to detect so presents with the more likelihood of bottlenecks at hospitals.Those bottlenecks are being avoided and hopefully this covid virus will decrease in the next 4 or 5 weeks otherwise different protocols other than staying home will have to be considered as shutting down the economy will cause far more deaths and damage. The rates are stabilizing in Spain, Italy and New York City.

You and many others  are reacting to the news of the moment that presents you an immediate vision of death rate of one virus.. on the other hand  you do not see the other deaths from other viruses that have continued..so the media is distorting your perspective of the covid virus making it seem higher. It's not.. it is just the one the media concentrates on and shows you every day. Think about it. People continue to die  and would have died of illnesses and viruses other than covid and you do not see them. 

Then there are deaths  lumped in as covid deaths erroneously.  These are cases where someone was destined to die whether they got the virus or not. They did not die because infections  piggy backed on to covid virus. They were there already or would still have come without the virus....however as  long as the person who dies has covid in those cases the media erroneously  defines them as covid deathswhich is inaccurate and inflates the covid death rate.

Inflated high death rates of covid  from lack of accurate reporting of the true death from other illnesses that would have killed the person with covid whether they got the virus or not is a distortion caused by the news media most are oblivious too.

As well the media uses  reported cases of covid as the base number to then determine the death rate of covid notvta actual number of covid cases which is much higher. So this further inflates the death rate because using the actual case rate  would lower the number of deaths per case.

The media further  focuses on death  and negative stories speculating of more deaths ccand worse things to come not stories showing recovery, no need for treatment, decreasing death rates, increasing recovery rates, places where bottlenecks have been avoided.

Often never stated the virus would be over in a week in New York.He has argued with some of us that anxiety caused by the lockdown  and access to negative media distortion creates frames of reference as to the extent and nature of covid  that make it appear "worse" than it actually is.

Also people when truly frightened or anxious see their fear as an inalienable right to maintain and defend. It is a variation of Stockholm Syndrome.  We have been taken hostage by a virus. The longer it holds usvhostage the more we believe we are powerless to escape from it..and will defend yourvbelief it has power over us.

This is  why  abused people stay with their abusers when they did not have to or holocaust survivors sat in paralysis in camps refusing to leave after the Nazis left. That is what fear does. It replaces rational thought with paralysis.

Fear paralyzes us by preventing us from thinking and rendering us overwhelmed.  In that  sense we have a collective trauma or fear  spreading in our society about covid amplified by the lockdown.

The most effective way to treat this  trauma is to challenge fear of covid and present positive alternative frames of reference to the negative ones when discussing the covid virus.

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Rue

[Argus]

16 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Right, so the virus doesn't need to be defeated, just normalized.

No. That's not it. What needs to happen is we need to have masks for everyone, lots of PPE and ventilators in hospitals, mass testing which produces quick results, and a really good tracing system for those found to be positive, like they have in Asia. We need to be able to know where the person has been for the previous two weeks, and be able to alert other people who have been in those places around those times to get tested. And they need to be able to GET those tests quickly and easily.

Then we can all go back to work.

[Argus]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Those problems are occurring in countries that already have poor health care, are already almost at 100 % capacity before the virus came along. You are blissfully unaware of that of course.

Like the US? The number one cause of death in the US is now the coronavirus.

[taxme]

20 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

The planet is shut down because it's highly contagious. The more people get it at once, the higher the death rate because hospitals become overwhelmed. You have a choice: economic collapse with thousands of deaths, or economic collapse with millions of deaths.

You can continue to blather nonsensical misinformation from last month's FoxNews reports, but it doesn't make you look any smarter.

I know what your problem is now? You appear to be suffering from what is now being called CVS(Covid Virus syndrome). As I have said here many times. I do not know of anyone, family or friends, who have gotten this "highly contagious" hoax of a virus. But I will bet that you know dozens who have, right? I await! 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Those problems are occurring in countries that already have poor health care, are already almost at 100 % capacity before the virus came along. You are blissfully unaware of that of course.

We get flu deaths up to 700,000 a year, and that's year on year and without you cowering under the bed.

I don't know where you get that number, but just as examples, the US loses between 12k-61k per year to flu. They've said that without the lockdowns and other extreme measures they've taken they could have lost 2 million to the virus in one year.

Canada usually has about 500-1500 deaths per year from influenza. Without the measures we've taken the predicted death toll for the CV19 was 300,000. Even with them we could see 22,000 deaths.

I'm not a math genius but it seems to me that 300,000 is more than 1500

[BubberMiley]

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

I know what your problem is now? You appear to be suffering from what is now being called CVS(Covid Virus syndrome). As I have said here many times. I do not know of anyone, family or friends, who have gotten this "highly contagious" hoax of a virus. But I will bet that you know dozens who have, right? I await! 

No, in Manitoba we have a competent Conservative government that took this seriously from the start and now we are seeing fewer active cases every day.

[taxme]

18 hours ago, scribblet said:

I don't know  anyone or have read anywhere of anyone believing it is not highly contagious, why would anyone think or imply otherwise?

It's not the bloody plague. The way the media is making it sound there should be dozens of people dying in the streets every day if this is such a contagious disease. All the sensational media is doing is putting fear and panic into people's make believe heads. There is nothing to fear from this seasonal virus flu bug. Again, it's not the bloody plague. This is all just a global plandemic exercise. Nothing makes sense anymore.  

[scribblet]

Okay, one person does, if you believe that I dare you to go out in public in crowds (I'm sure you can find some) without a mask.

[taxme]

17 hours ago, Argus said:

Some social distancing will continue, but there is no way in hell they can keep the economy half shut down for eighteen months, nor even six.

But the globalists, the media, and our dear leaders are going to try to keep this bs up until they finally come out with a vaccine. Of course it will all come to an end when Mr. Pro-vaccination himself Bill Gates decides to come up with a vaccine that he can then get the fools to take the virus vaccination shot and make hundreds of billions of dollars from it. And I can guarantee that most of the gullible lemmings here will be one of the first ones to get in the lineup for their vaccine shot that will have nothing in it that will kill off this so called plandemic virus. Just shit put in your veins. But do go ahead and enjoy that little prick in the arm and then you and everybody else will be once again allowed to go outside and play again. 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Those problems are occurring in countries that already have poor health care, are already almost at 100 % capacity before the virus came along. You are blissfully unaware of that of course.

Trust me I'm all to well aware of the lack of capacity in our health care system. But what you said is that ”We” being ordinary people who don’t work in health care and never hear about these outbreaks. They occur every year on the scale you are seeing now. I'm guessing you put parentheses around the word We to qualify that you're special to the point that only you can see what everyone else is blissfully unaware of.  You do realize that everyone else can see what you're writing don't you?

I've been around a few hospitals a lot during the last couple of years and I don't recall seeing anything on a scale that involves massive shortages of PPE, swamped emergency wards, refrigerated trucks full of bodies, mass graves or anything whatsoever in the media about it.  I don't recall anything on the scale we're seeing now during my entire life in fact.  And you're saying this happens on this scale every year. 

No.  What's happened is that you force yourself to process everything you view, think and discuss thru your ideological discombobulator resulting in a finished product that is completely retarded.

[taxme]

3 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Okay, one person does, if you believe that I dare you to go out in public in crowds (I'm sure you can find some) without a mask.

I do not know anyone from family to friends who have gotten this phony virus yet. But I be that you know plenty, right?  I pretty much go out every day and I am still free from this seasonal flu bug. You appear to be another one of those people who are suffering from what is being called now CVS(Covid Virus Syndrome). Apparently, it is a terrible disease to try and get rid of. The way to get rid of it of course is to stop listening to the media and your dear leader politicians. They are the spreaders of this phony virus. Just saying. 

[taxme]

20 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

No, in Manitoba we have a competent Conservative government that took this seriously from the start and now we are seeing fewer active cases every day.

I know now that you do not know anyone who has caught the bug. So, just who are those people who are getting this bug anyway? No one ever gets to see or know who they are?

Yes, but how bad was it before the conservative government took the virus seriously? Just curious.