The Coronavirus

[Zeitgeist]

47 minutes ago, Argus said:

That just demonstrated how utterly short-sighted the federal government was, never imagining we would need it over here soon. They're like drivers with their eyes fixed on the rear of the car in front of them instead of looking up the road for trouble. No preparation, no anticipation, no planning, nothing.

South Korea had a lot less warning than us. But they handled this because they had planned for it, and had stocks on hand. That's what good government does.

Anyone seen any of that around here in the last little while?

I hear you, but it’s human nature for people and governments to focus on what is pressing in front of them.  Need and desire create demand.  Until the demand is there, the market generally doesn’t supply future demand unless it knows it’s coming.  It’s upsetting that countries facing the crisis a month ago didn’t work harder to keep the infection from spreading to other countries, but any border official will tell you it’s up to each country to protect its own citizens.

I think at minimum what we are doing will slow and substantially reduce the spread.  Even if we don’t get to zero new cases, a careful return to work and school with reduced numbers and social distancing will keep hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, especially since within a few weeks medical supplies, including ventilators, will become more available.

At that point, we see a re-animation of the economy where we’re better positioned to deal with new cases and the flow of them is reduced.    Some countries are instituting a card-system for confirmed negatives (green), infected and contagious (red), and a card for the vulnerable (yellow).  The greens could participate fully in the public sphere.  Reds are under quarantine.  Yellows maintain careful social distancing. Some kind of system like this might help. Everyone will be more careful though as we return to normalcy.

Hopeful data seems to indicate that recovered cases are not contagious after a minimal period and they remain immune for some time.  Combine these findings with better treatments and eventually a vaccine and we do see an exit, a return to public life with acceptable risk in a reasonable timeframe.  I know there will be many arguments about the timeframe, and keep in mind that in the near term this pandemic will get worse before it gets better.  We need patience and fortitude.  “This may not be the beginning of the end, but it may be the end of the beginning.”  Sir Winston Churchill 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-recovery-what-happens-after-covid19/

Edited March 24, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Iceni warrior]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

There is no point in getting wrapped around the axle about things in a war.  You've been conscripted, soldiers have to learn to relax in the saddle and just live in the now

Remember who you are, remember where you come from, the story of your people, steel your hearts for war,  British Grenadiers.

 

Wipes tear away

Dame Vera sent a message of hope to the nation yesterday at the grand old age of 103.

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Wipes tear away

Dame Vera sent a message of hope to the nation yesterday at the grand old age of 103.

Wow!  She’s still alive?  One of a few to live through, as an adult, what will likely turn out to be the two biggest cataclysms of the last century, WW2 and the Covid 19 pandemic.  

Edited March 24, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Iceni warrior]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Wow!  She’s still alive?  One of a few to live through what will likely turn out to be the two biggest cataclysms of the last century, WW2 and the Covid 19 pandemic.  

At 103 she was alive during WWI and the Spanish flu pandemic too.

 

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

At 103 she was alive during WWI and the Spanish flu pandemic too.

 

Yes but to experience WW2 and the pandemic as an adult is highly exceptional.  She represented hope.  

Edited March 24, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Iceni warrior]

 

[eyeball]

40 minutes ago, Argus said:

That just demonstrated how utterly short-sighted the federal government was, never imagining we would need it over here soon. They're like drivers with their eyes fixed on the rear of the car in front of them instead of looking up the road for trouble. No preparation, no anticipation, no planning, nothing.

South Korea had a lot less warning than us. But they handled this because they had planned for it, and had stocks on hand. That's what good government does.

Our population is just as short-sighted as our politicians and that's why we get the governments we deserve. South Korea handled this well because people there are more trusting of experts and scientists and simply appear to be more mature and level-headed when it comes to being governed. 

Quote

Anyone seen any of that around here in the last little while?

Ditto.

[pinky tuscadero]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Our population is just as short-sighted as our politicians and that's why we get the governments we deserve. South Korea handled this well because people there are more trusting of experts and scientists and simply appear to be more mature and level-headed when it comes to being governed. 

No thanks.

I would rather be exposed to the minor inconveniences of too much liberty than those attending too small a degree.  Thomas Jefferson

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. Thomas Jefferson

my mind is mine alone, not the governments

my body is mine alone, not the governments

 

there are many, many places in the world where people can live 'freely' as mere cogs in their machine,

can we who revel in freedom (not anarchy mind you) have a couple of countries?

 

Quote

South Korea is a strange country, where capitalism, socialism and communism blend and coexist. Our economic system is capitalist, our social structure is socialist, and our mindsets are communist. We adopt capitalism for our economic development, but strive for socialist welfare and demand equal distribution of wealth.

...

Indeed, such a thing cannot happen in a capitalist society. But it is possible in Korea because our sentiment, perhaps unconsciously,

strongly supports socialism and even communism.

link

 

 

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I hear you, but it’s human nature for people and governments to focus on what is pressing in front of them.  Need and desire create demand.  Until the demand is there, the market generally doesn’t supply future demand unless it knows it’s coming.  It’s upsetting that countries facing the crisis a month ago didn’t work harder to keep the infection from spreading to other countries, but any border official will tell you it’s up to each country to protect its own citizens.

I think at minimum what we are doing will slow and substantially reduce the spread.  Even if we don’t get to zero new cases, a careful return to work and school with reduced numbers and social distancing will keep hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, especially since within a few weeks medical supplies, including ventilators, will become more available.

At that point, we see a re-animation of the economy where we’re better positioned to deal with new cases and the flow of them is reduced.    Some countries are instituting a card-system for confirmed negatives (green), infected and contagious (red), and a card for the vulnerable (yellow).  The greens could participate fully in the public sphere.  Reds are under quarantine.  Yellows maintain careful social distancing. Some kind of system like this might help. Everyone will be more careful though as we return to normalcy.

Hopeful data seems to indicate that recovered cases are not contagious after a minimal period and they remain immune for some time.  Combine these findings with better treatments and eventually a vaccine and we do see an exit, a return to public life with acceptable risk in a reasonable timeframe.  I know there will be many arguments about the timeframe, and keep in mind that in the near term this pandemic will get worse before it gets better.  We need patience and fortitude.  “This may not be the beginning of the end, but it may be the end of the beginning.”  Sir Winston Churchill 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-recovery-what-happens-after-covid19/

I do not share your religious belief in social distancing. I think it is unrealistic.  By the way social distancing is a politically appropriate word. I call it panic and house arrest.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

30 minutes ago, pinky tuscadero said:

No thanks.

I would rather be exposed to the minor inconveniences of too much liberty than those attending too small a degree.  Thomas Jefferson

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. Thomas Jefferson

my mind is mine alone, not the governments

my body is mine alone, not the governments

 

there are many, many places in the world where people can live 'freely' as mere cogs in their machine,

can we who revel in freedom (not anarchy mind you) have a couple of countries?

 

 

 

I think the threat to removing our our basic democratic freedoms in the name of a virus is far more of a threat than the virus.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Rue

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Rue said:

I think the threat to removing our our basic democratic freedoms in the name of a virus is far more of a threat than the virus.

I'm the same, except I think the virus is more of a threat than removing our basic democratic freedoms.

Given death is permanent, and the democratic freedoms might come back.

What did you want to do, go to an Ice Hockey match?

[Rue]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Our population is just as short-sighted as our politicians and that's why we get the governments we deserve. South Korea handled this well because people there are more trusting of experts and scientists and simply appear to be more mature and level-headed when it comes to being governed. 

Ditto.

I am too mature you poohead Sorry could not resist.  I am not sure about more mature or level headed  but they are  but culturally  more attuned to following authority yes as they will state. They are used to a prevailing threat of war from next door...went through a devastating war in their very yard unlike us....have had quite a few nuclear scares and have a  cultural approach based on less individualism and more totalitarian dictator governments in their past than us.  

[Rue]

19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I'm the same, except I think the virus is more of a threat than removing our basic democratic freedoms.

Given death is permanent, and the democratic freedoms might come back.

What did you want to do, go to an Ice Hockey match?

Well history has shown once a freedom is taken away its not given back and we never recover from that but we do recover from viruses. Truthfully I am not going to go out and run up and down the street naked BC but I do have concerns over the long term damage of house arrest to our society. 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

I am not sure about more mature or level headed  but they are  but culturally  more attuned to following authority yes as they will state.

 

Well, I haven't heard a peep about panic-buying of toilet paper in S. Korea and as far as their respecting their betters goes who can forget how unglued South Koreans became after that airline executive was caught berating the help?

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

I think the threat to removing our our basic democratic freedoms in the name of a virus is far more of a threat than the virus.

Perhaps those who think staying mostly home for a few weeks is too damaging to the economy or freedom should be permitted to work and socialize at will, as long as they also agree not to take up any medical resources should they contract covid-19.  After all, about 98% of them will be fine, eventually.   These folks can keep our economy/freedoms intact while the rest of the world waits at home for a vaccine and/or some kind of treatment.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Well history has shown once a freedom is taken away its not given back and we never recover from that but we do recover from viruses. Truthfully I am not going to go out and run up and down the street naked BC but I do have concerns over the long term damage of house arrest to our society. 

The dead people don't recover.  I consider myself a libertarian in many respects, but I'm a sane libertarian.  I don't know which rights you think you will permanently lose under a Canadian Liberal government but I'm not as worried as you are about it.  I'm also not a SIFCLF when it comes to the economy.  (was that made up for this site or is it in common usage?)

[Iceni warrior]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

  I'm also not a SIFCLF when it comes to the economy.  (was that made up for this site or is it in common usage?)

It was made up for another site, an obscure corner of the internet where Dougie, myself and Yzermandis (who coined it) hang out.

Not in common usage no matter how much Y would love it to be.

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 I'm also not a SIFCLF when it comes to the economy.  (was that made up for this site or is it in common usage?)

No you're a SIFCLF when it comes to the virus.

I'm only stuck at home because the rest of the economy around me has been laid off.

Are we supposed to say yes when EI asks if we're searching for a job? I hate lying to the government.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

No you're a SIFCLF when it comes to the virus.

I'm only stuck at home because the rest of the economy around me has been laid off.

Are we supposed to say yes when EI asks if we're searching for a job? I hate lying to the government.

No, I'm not one of those either. 

You go on out if you want. 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

No, I'm not one of those either. 

You go on out if you want. 

I am actually. I have to say this is one of the best stretches of March weather I can recall. The view of the Apocalypse from the comfort of my deck is downright spectacular.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I am actually. I have to say this is one of the best stretches of March weather I can recall. The view of the Apocalypse from the comfort of my deck is downright spectacular.

I wonder if how much one cares is proportional to the distance one is from the closest person affected?  Such a thing might interest a social scientist.

Edited March 25, 2020 by bcsapper

[bush_cheney2004]

Gun and ammunition sales are spiking in Canada.   Something 'bout a virus....

 

Quote

Coronavirus: Firearms and ammo sales spike across Canada amid COVID-19, gun law fears

TORONTO — The COVID-19 outbreak coupled with fears about more restrictive gun legislation has fuelled a spike in firearm and ammunition sales, several dealers said this week.

Buyers, they say, are stocking up while they can — a development that has alarmed gun-control advocates.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6706985/coronavirus-firearms-and-ammo-sales-spike-across-canada-amid-covid-19-gun-law-fears/

 

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Gun and ammunition sales are spiking in Canada.   Something 'bout a virus....

Could also be something about soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada.

Except this time its Trudeau's soldiers so....

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Gun and ammunition sales are spiking in Canada.   Something 'bout a virus....

But if you haven't already taken the handling & safety course and acquired the license, there's no way to get one now.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

But if you haven't already taken the handling & safety course and acquired the license, there's no way to get one now.

 

There is no legal way to get one now.   Are private sales controlled by the 'gubmint ?