Non-confidence

[betsy]

People are losing jobs.   Commodities aren't being delivered.  Prices will go up - supply and demand.  Propane is being rationed.   We might even have a shortage of clean water.  And yet, Trudeau wouldn't make any decisive decisions.    Our national security is at stake - this could descend into chaos!

 

Let's face it:  Trudeau is a deer caught in the headlights.   He's frozen stiff!

It's the same thing that happened over his slow response to Canadians in Wuhan.  It seems he's so afraid to make any decisions.

 

Can the Opposition get together and boot out Trudeau over this blockade crisis?  Can they cite non-confidence over his non-existing leadership?

Edited February 19, 2020 by betsy

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, betsy said:

Can the Opposition get together and boot out Trudeau over this blockade crisis?

Probably but it looks like the opposition would rather back him at the moment.

[Dougie93]

All the parties are broke from the last election, so none of them are prepared for another election right now.

An election being the only outcome, since the Conservatives can never be part of the Supreme Soviet with the NDP & Greens

[Grand Mal]

45 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

All the parties are broke from the last election, so none of them are prepared for another election right now.

An election being the only outcome, since the Conservatives can never be part of the Supreme Soviet with the NDP & Greens

Best for the country if the Tories are excluded from government.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Grand Mal said:

Best for the country if the Tories are excluded from government.

There is no country, Confederation is a failed state.

[Grand Mal]

13 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

There is no country, Confederation is a failed state.

Oh, too bad . Guess I'll go hang myself in the barn.

Canada, by any standards, is one of the best places in the world to live. So much so that a case could be made that anyone who doesn't like living here probably wouldn't like living anywhere.

That said, better a sister in a whore-house than a brother in the Conservative Party.

[WestCanMan]

Everyone in the NDP, Bloc, Green party and Libs is competing tooth-and-nail for the environmentalist vote so they are all scared ____less of taking the side of the law/common sense on this issue.

It's good for the country in the long run because it highlights leftists' stupidity/uselessness, but it will be a bitter pill to swallow for a while.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Grand Mal said:

Oh, too bad . Guess I'll go hang myself in the barn.

Canada, by any standards, is one of the best places in the world to live. So much so that a case could be made that anyone who doesn't like living here probably wouldn't like living anywhere.

 

Canada is simply an agreement called Confederation, it has nothing to do with your standard of living, the failed state of Confederation simply being propped up by America.

[WestCanMan]

19 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

There is no country, Confederation is a failed state.

It's definitely strained to record levels at this point in time.

At the end of Harper's last two terms the BQ got a total of 14 seats. After 1 term of Trudeau the Bloc got 32 seats. Western separation wasn't even a consideration while Harper was PM, now it is widely favoured. 

As bad as it was a couple weeks ago, things are getting worse by the day now because of the idiotic rail blockades. If the Bloc gets their way and puts an end to Teck it will get immeasurably worse.

I've always considered myself a patriotic Canadian but I'm far from it now. I couldn't care less if the country breaks into 3 or more parts. I don't even like the maritimes anymore and I lived there, I still have friends there. I can still visit if it's a different country. To hell with it. Stick a fork in this pig.

 

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

 

I've always considered myself a patriotic Canadian.

 

Canada was never a country, the country was always the House of Windsor, the Confederation is sub national to the Crown.

Pro Patria is to the Commander-in-Chief at Buckingham Palace, not the Laurentian Elite pretenders to the throne in Ottawa.

Canadians don't believe that anymore, thus how Confederation failed, as without the Queen as the binding force, there is no Canada.

[Argus]

53 minutes ago, Grand Mal said:

Best for the country if the Tories are excluded from government.

And why would that be? Because of the amazing competence the Liberals have displayed thus far?

[Rue]

34 minutes ago, Grand Mal said:

Oh, too bad . Guess I'll go hang myself in the barn.

Canada, by any standards, is one of the best places in the world to live. So much so that a case could be made that anyone who doesn't like living here probably wouldn't like living anywhere.

That said, better a sister in a whore-house than a brother in the Conservative Party.

Yer a  commie Grand Mal. I like yer name. I have political seizures myself all the time. Now mind you I hate Trudeau with a passion but I  have a different perspective on native rights to access to land than many on this board based on legal doctrine I believe allows natives to make the arguments they are now making and  I think some people under-estimate the legal application of the Charter or Rights and certain legal doctrine in regards to native rights if this goes to court.  I think this issue needs calmness regardless of who handles it and I think it will be settled. This issue is a symptom of a larger constellation  of underlying legal issues that have never been resolved with the indigenous and festers like a rotting wound.

 

 

[Rue]

29 minutes ago, Argus said:

And why would that be? Because of the amazing competence the Liberals have displayed thus far?

Every government has had their fair share of incompetence in managing the indigenous portfolio. I think Trudeau's attempting to portray himself as a messiah for the indigenous people though has come back to bite his Royal Smugness/

Our very basis of constitutional laws have created a stalemate between modern business legal interests and indigenous legal rights which are not centralized and represented by a disjointed and dysfunctional constellation of  nation councils many of which are corrupt and ripping off their own people refusing to distribute compensation benefits from business to improve their communities.. Both sides  have legal arguments that could draw the courts into decades of blither and blather and never come up with a clear set of compromises and so I think this is one of those things practical people need to sit down and deal with and stop posturing over.

I do not think business and indigenous peoples are as far apart as some think.Putting in environmental safeguards is possible. So is proper compensation to indigenous communities-its the distribution of that compensation that is as much part of the friction between indigenous peoples as it is environmental concerns.Native people have actually been part of many business project where its been a  win-win. They get work  but they also can provide practical insights on the environment to prevent risks that cost millions if not billions. This will be settled. I think certain native reps have to stop hoarding compensation from business and reinvest it in their communities. I also think  certain native people need to become educated in modern environmental technology which can be used to  protect their environment and traditions and not have them fearful of other technologies.

I myself to not think their legal issues and environmental concerns should be railroaded anymore than people want business interests railroaded.  

Edited February 19, 2020 by Rue

[WestCanMan]

30 minutes ago, Rue said:

  I think some people under-estimate the legal application of the Charter or Rights and certain legal doctrine in regards to native rights if this goes to court.  I think this issue needs calmness regardless of who handles it and I think it will be settled. This issue is a symptom of a larger constellation  of underlying legal issues that have never been resolved with the indigenous and festers like a rotting wound.

I think that if this opens up any can of worms it will be whether we, as a country, deal with hereditary chiefs at all or if we just deal with the elected first nations leaders. 

These hereditary chiefs might actually be screwing their progeny several generations worth of cushy jobs if it turns out they're going against the will of the vast majority of their people and the collective good of the tribes.

We'll see if tribes want hereditary chiefs at all or if they want some democracy of their own. I know that I don't want the monarchy calling all the shots for Canada and I don't think Brits want that either.

Edited February 19, 2020 by WestCanMan
bass-ackwards it was

[Grand Mal]

49 minutes ago, Argus said:

And why would that be? Because of the amazing competence the Liberals have displayed thus far?

Because they spend like drunken sailors. After 8 or 9 years of surplus budgets under Chretien, Harper put us back into the red.

And I'm pretending this particular Liberal government isn't happening, so don't spoil it for me.

[Rue]

57 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada was never a country, the country was always the House of Windsor, the Confederation is sub national to the Crown.

Pro Patria is to the Commander-in-Chief at Buckingham Palace, not the Laurentian Elite pretenders to the throne in Ottawa.

Canadians don't believe that anymore, thus how Confederation failed, as without the Queen as the binding force, there is no Canada.

Yer such a happy guy when it comes to Canada. Geez man.... my friggin not so kosher butt is damn happy its in Canada and not in Israel or another country with perpetual conflicts that make ours look tiny in comparison. The warts this country has are nothing compared to most places in the world. You spend far too much time spitting down on the nation. Once I am at it, I respect our country tries to be civil with conflicts. Its time consuming but its far better than blood spilling. I just argue our politicians need to get off their asses and settle the issues they avoid and stop dumping it on police or our soldiers.The civility is not the problem, its the lack of sincere dialogue to resolve the conflicts.

[Argus]

50 minutes ago, Grand Mal said:

Because they spend like drunken sailors. After 8 or 9 years of surplus budgets under Chretien, Harper put us back into the red.

That's a superficial statement that ignores the historical facts. Do you think Chretien would have had a surplus through the recession? I remind you, if you aren't aware, that he ran large deficits the first four years he was in power. The surpluses didn't come until the US economy started booming and dragged ours along with it. After then he ran surpluses largely because he had no ambition to do anything with the money, and wanted it kept ready at hand should the divided conservatives join up and challenge him The instant they did, the surplus was largely eliminated as Paul Martin splurged ahead of  an election. He also made so many electoral promises we'd have been back in deficit even without a new recession.

 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Yer such a happy guy when it comes to Canada. Geez man.... my friggin not so kosher butt is damn happy its in Canada and not in Israel or another country with perpetual conflicts that make ours look tiny in comparison. The warts this country has are nothing compared to most places in the world. You spend far too much time spitting down on the nation.

F@ck Canada. <spits>

[Moonlight Graham]

How the federal and provincial governments can allow a bunch of protestors to shut down vital transportation infrastructure across the country is beyond me.  This is one reason why Canada needs a mightier military.  I support protest and all speech but I don't support coercion.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Everyone in the NDP, Bloc, Green party and Libs is competing tooth-and-nail for the environmentalist vote so they are all scared ____less of taking the side of the law/common sense on this issue.

They're winning that vote and the law will be changed to reflect a new common sense.

Quote

It's good for the country in the long run because it highlights leftists' stupidity/uselessness, but it will be a bitter pill to swallow for a while.

It's even better for the country that you rightists cast the left the way you do. It only hardens its resolve like snow turning to ice.

[eyeball]

I guess in summation I can only reiterate that I live and work in the heart of a 1st Nation modern treaty territory where title is now shared and our governance is subject to being a little more consensus based.

I still hold title to my property, our economy hereabouts is thriving, I'm at the top of my game and pay rate in my industry making more money than ever before and burning less fuel more efficiently to boot.

No one makes me wear pyjama's or pack an AK47 around so yeah...life is good in a 1st Nation's territory.  C'mon in the water's just fine.

Don't worry if 1st Nations decide to build a nuclear power station subject to sloppy administration and oversight I'll be the first one at the blockade. I'm quite certain many of my native friends will be as well.

Edited February 20, 2020 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I guess in summation I can only reiterate that I live and work in the heart of a 1st Nation modern treaty territory where title is now shared and our governance is subject to being a little more consensus based.

I still hold title to my property, our economy hereabouts is thriving, I'm at the top of my game and pay rate in my industry, making more money than ever before and burning less fuel more efficiently to boot.

No one makes me wear pyjama's or pack an AK47 around and yeah...life is good in a 1st Nation's territory.  C'mon in the water's just fine.

If 1st Nations decide to build a nuclear power station subject to sloppy administration and oversight I'll be the first one at the blockade.

Why does it have to be about an ethnic “nation”?   Run the democracy by the people for the people.

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why does it have to be about an ethnic “nation”?   Run the democracy by the people for the people.

It only isn't being run like that in your fears. We were filled with similar fears at the outset of the treaty process here and and yes it was stressful. But things change and so do perceptions and realities. Running a democracy with the advise of people who have deep connections to the land is a wise thing to do. More and more we see people pointing to some fairly significant deficiencies in how we practice democracy and while it's still certainly better than the alternative it can still be improved on and having lived under the auspices of people that are not as beholden to the short term concerns of short term elected representatives I've found there is little to be concerned about.  You'd be wrong to assume these representatives of the community are not subject to to pressure from the community which is why building and having respect for that representation is such an important feature of it. Lose that and you lose the community and the land.

If the mundane concerns about ethnicity become a real burden we can simply shift to becoming Earthling's and lay claim to as much human right to occupy the planet as anyone else.

This is why its called progress. But of course scaredy cats will set their hair on fire and run around screaming communism at the top of their lungs.

Edited February 20, 2020 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

It only isn't being run like that in your fears. We were filled with similar fears at the outset of the treaty process here and and yes it was stressful. But things change and so do perceptions and realities. Running a democracy with the advise of people who have deep connections to the land is a wise thing to do. More and more we see people pointing to some fairly significant deficiencies in how we practice democracy and while it's still certainly better than the alternative it can still be improved on and having lived under the auspices of people that are not as beholden to the short term concerns of short term elected representatives I've found there is little to be concerned about.  You'd be wrong to assume these representatives of the community are not subject to to pressure from the community which is why building and having respect for that representation is such an important feature of it. Lose that and you lose the community and the land.

If the mundane concerns about ethnicity become a real burden we can simply shift to becoming Earthling's and lay claim to as much human right to occupy the planet as anyone else.

This is why its called progress. But of course scaredy cats will set their hair on fire and run around screaming communism at the top of their lungs.

Nonsense, it’s about segregation pure and simple, separation by race.  It’s primitive and holding people back from their potential.  You’ve been brainwashed.  Put away the Kool-Aid.  Are Indigenous to be patronized and placated, kept like endangered species on a “reserve”?   It’s so backwards and stupid.  

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

It only isn't being run like that in your fears. We were filled with similar fears at the outset of the treaty process here and and yes it was stressful. But things change and so do perceptions and realities. Running a democracy with the advise of people who have deep connections to the land is a wise thing to do. More and more we see people pointing to some fairly significant deficiencies in how we practice democracy and while it's still certainly better than the alternative it can still be improved on and having lived under the auspices of people that are not as beholden to the short term concerns of short term elected representatives I've found there is little to be concerned about.  You'd be wrong to assume these representatives of the community are not subject to to pressure from the community which is why building and having respect for that representation is such an important feature of it. Lose that and you lose the community and the land.

If the mundane concerns about ethnicity become a real burden we can simply shift to becoming Earthling's and lay claim to as much human right to occupy the planet as anyone else.

This is why its called progress. But of course scaredy cats will set their hair on fire and run around screaming communism at the top of their lungs.

It’s pure racist apartheid garbage, having reserves for certain races and giving them money because the public thinks they’re incapable of taking care of themselves.  It’s pitiful.  Scrap it all lock stock and barrel.  Get off the reserve and the tax breaks.  Join the real world of personal responsibility like many other successful Indigenous have.  Drop the stereotypes.