Iceni warrior Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 I get a little tired hearing how America is paying more than its fair share for defence. As I understand it, the buy in to sit down at the NATO table is 2% of GDP. The UK pays this and the US pays 4%. Why should I feel shamed into paying more than my obligated buy in just because the US pays twice what it needs to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, godzilla said: i might add that if Trump doesn't like the Iran deal he has every right to introduce modifications... he has not. he has no ideas. all he does is tear up existing agreements and then introduce new ones that are 95% the old ones with 5% window dressing and call it the best deal ever. the guy has no ideas. The Iran Deal sucked, tearing it up was totally the right move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 What I'm implying is as a nation we should STFU, until we are willing to contribute to solutions to these problems we love to whine about....Make us a member of the UN council.... For what, because we signed onto all the UN policies and yet once back home disregard them....same as our commitments to NATO, and NORAD, and the ABCAZ pact, we can not keep our word why would anyone give us a say in the UN. or take us serious in any world matters...Yes Canada is a military power house that has 30 year old tanks , 40 year fighters, and 30 year old ships...that can not seem to mange to buy simple trucks....so much for spending to much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Iceni warrior said: I get a little tired hearing how America is paying more than its fair share for defence. As I understand it, the buy in to sit down at the NATO table is 2% of GDP. The UK pays this and the US pays 4%. Why should I feel shamed into paying more than my obligated buy in just because the US pays twice what it needs to? It's those not paying 2% who are the deadbeats, you're not even paying attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted January 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Iceni warrior said: I get a little tired hearing how America is paying more than its fair share for defence. As I understand it, the buy in to sit down at the NATO table is 2% of GDP. The UK pays this and the US pays 4%. Why should I feel shamed into paying more than my obligated buy in just because the US pays twice what it needs to? yeah, its like my fence with my neighbor. he owns the fencing company that will build the fence and suspiciously he wants a fancy fence that i don't think we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: You'll note how the Progressive media led by the CBC frames this as America v. Iran with Canada as a neutral. This is simply not the case, Canada is with America, against Iran, Canada is fully complicit in all actions taken in the theater, as a member of the coalition. You're wrong on both accounts. CBC frames this as Donald Trump vs Iran, and Canada is not with America at all as long as Trudeau is PM. Trudeau's statement that: Quote If there were no tensions, if there was no escalation recently in the region, those Canadians would be right now home with their families, is his own watered-down way of shifting blame away from Iran and placing some of it on Trump. With friends like Trudeau who needs enemies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said: I get a little tired hearing how America is paying more than its fair share for defence. As I understand it, the buy in to sit down at the NATO table is 2% of GDP. The UK pays this and the US pays 4%. Why should I feel shamed into paying more than my obligated buy in just because the US pays twice what it needs to? America has far more obligations than simply NATO, America is defending and upholding the entire Western Hegenomy, worldwide, not just in one theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: With friends like Trudeau who needs enemies? Under the rule of the Laurentian Eliites, the Post National State has indeed migrated into no man's land as a rogue state, tho there has been no formal declaration. Edited January 16, 2020 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: It's those not paying 2% who are the deadbeats, you're not even paying attention. My point was, why does the US pay twice what it needs to unless they want to? You think they will pay less if Germany coughs up a little more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 I mean clearly America is doing the heavy lifting when it comes to defending and upholding the entire Western Hegemony, if you disagree, you simply don't want to give America credit where it is due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: America has far more obligations than simply NATO, America is defending and upholding the entire Western Hegenomy, worldwide, not just in one theater. Is the US keeping the SLOC open out of altruism or do they do it out of self interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just now, Iceni warrior said: Is the US keeping the SLOC open out of altruism or do they do it out of self interest? Irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted January 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: I mean clearly America is doing the heavy lifting when it comes to defending and upholding the entire Western Hegemony, if you disagree, you simply don't want to give America credit where it is due. utter bullshit. this is an old ruse that the US are doing all this for "the West". its a protection racket, pure and simple. if any country wants to be an "ally" of the US then we all know what they need to give up in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Irrelevant. Says you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Iceni warrior said: Is the US keeping the SLOC open out of altruism or do they do it out of self interest? Altruism is in America's self interest, the defenders of the free world incite a flight to quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, godzilla said: utter bullshit. this is an old ruse that the US are doing all this for "the West". its a protection racket, pure and simple. if any country wants to be an "ally" of the US then we all know what they need to give up in return. Except many of them don't give up what they are required to, some protection racket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just now, Dougie93 said: Altruism is in America's self interest, the defenders of the free world incite a flight to quality. So let them. I'd rather spend my money on clean air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said: I get a little tired hearing how America is paying more than its fair share for defence. As I understand it, the buy in to sit down at the NATO table is 2% of GDP. The UK pays this and the US pays 4%. Why should I feel shamed into paying more than my obligated buy in just because the US pays twice what it needs to? The US provides military strength around the globe, not just in Europe....most of the NATO countries including Canada have been living the dream, and peace dividends to the point that a lot of these militaries are gutted, like Germany, Holland, you name it...mean while China and Russian have been increasing expenditures on their militaries , to the point that concerns US military forces, that if something did happen, they the US would not be able to handle it themselves, and the NATO allies would struggle to commit forces that would not make much difference...Hence the 2 % GDP number... if Europe or Canada does not like it , get the phack out....it is really that simple....the US would fold it's tents in Europe and pull out ,leaving Europe poorly defended.. why should you feel ashamed, we have signed onto these defensive commitments , promising to maintain the 2 % expenditures....historically we have NEVER s[ent that much unless we were at war...but then again if you looked at the state our forces are in you would see there needs to be some investment.... America is getting tired of spending all it's tax payers money with no return while others profit from it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: Altruism is in America's self interest, the defenders of the free world incite a flight to quality. Whether they are doing everyone a solid for their own self interests, or purely out of goodness of their own hearts, doesn't change the fact that they are doing everyone a solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said: So let them. I'd rather spend my money on clean air. Lack of clean air is not a big problem in the UK, you don't live in China dude. I'd rather spend money on something that's already been achieved as excuse not to pay for something that actually benefits the UK, that's just pointless virtue signalling. Edited January 16, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, godzilla said: yeah, its like my fence with my neighbor. he owns the fencing company that will build the fence and suspiciously he wants a fancy fence that i don't think we need. right now you don't even have a fence....nothing that would keep anyone out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Army Guy said: The US provides military strength around the globe, not just in Europe....most of the NATO countries including Canada have been living the dream, and peace dividends to the point that a lot of these militaries are gutted, like Germany, Holland, you name it...mean while China and Russian have been increasing expenditures on their militaries , to the point that concerns US military forces, that if something did happen, they the US would not be able to handle it themselves, and the NATO allies would struggle to commit forces that would not make much difference...Hence the 2 % GDP number... if Europe or Canada does not like it , get the phack out....it is really that simple....the US would fold it's tents in Europe and pull out ,leaving Europe poorly defended.. why should you feel ashamed, we have signed onto these defensive commitments , promising to maintain the 2 % expenditures....historically we have NEVER s[ent that much unless we were at war...but then again if you looked at the state our forces are in you would see there needs to be some investment.... America is getting tired of spending all it's tax payers money with no return while others profit from it... I wonder why China and Russia feel so threatened by America? We've tried doing an arms race before. All we got was enough bombs to blow the world up many times over and a flag on the moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just now, Iceni warrior said: So let them. I'd rather spend my money on clean air. America is not asking you to spend more, the United Kingdom is a chief advocate for NATO members meeting the obligation of the 2% commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Lack of clean air is not a big problem in the UK, you don't live in China dude. I'd rather spend money on something that's already been achieved as excuse not to pay for something that actually benefits the UK, that's just pointless virtue signalling. Air doesn't respect borders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said: I wonder why China and Russia feel so threatened by America? We've tried doing an arms race before. All we got was enough bombs to blow the world up many times over and a flag on the moon. No war between the major powers and a massive economic boom. Yeah we've tried it before, it worked fantastically. Peace Through Strength FTW. Edited January 16, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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