Entitled refugees

[Shady]

How prominent atheists feel about Islam.

 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

The problem with your argument is that you’re comparing people from 500+ years ago to people now.  The world has evolved.  At least most of it that’s not influenced by Islam.

Yeah, I used to think so too.  And then Trump was elected, people are pushing the ideology of hatred, racism and exclusion on and offline, anti-woman policies are necoming more popular in the States and among Canadian conservatives, White Supremacist groups are growing and are becoming more active.

Sure, "our" extremists aren't murdering people or shrouding and oppressing women to the extent that Islamic extremists do, but Islamic ideology ideology of hatred isn't a lot different than the ideology of hatred that currently exists among certain groups and individuals in the West.

Personally, I feel that what I didn't understand about Nazi Germany and the holocaust, about Canada rejecting Jewish refugees in the second world war and interring Japanese during the same war is being explained to me via the anti-Muslim propaganda I see today.  We aren't any different than Muslims in our ability to hate those who are "different" and to punish and oppress those weaker than us.

I do remain hopeful that the poison of the extreme right and the GOP will not overtake Canada and that our committment to human rights continues to grow.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by dialamah

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Yeah, I used to think so too.  And then Trump was elected, people are pushing the ideology of hatred, racism and exclusion on and offline, anti-woman policies are necoming more popular in the States and among Canadian conservatives, White Supremacist groups are growing and are becoming more active.

This is all complete, utter bullshit dialamah. 

You're comparing something that is actually happening right now on the planet to something that you think might be happening. 

That's just your own bigoted hate mongering, your own fear mongering, period.

Quote

Sure, "our" extremists aren't murdering people or shrouding and oppressing women to the extent that Islamic extremists do, but Islamic ideology ideology of hatred isn't a lot different than the ideology of hatred that currently exists among certain groups and individuals in the West.

Your extremists are murdering people, because the people you are aligned with are the islamists dialamah. That's why you are propagating their screed.

In the west no one wants laws where blasphemers are murdered violently. No one wants laws where gays are murdered violently. There is no large or medium-sized or even relevant amount of white supremacists. That's just more of your screed, and it's part of the fear mongering of the idiot leftists.

Quote

Personally, I feel that what I didn't understand about Nazi Germany and the holocaust, about Canada rejecting Jewish refugees in the second world war and interring Japanese during the same war is being explained to me via the anti-Muslim propaganda I see today.  We aren't any different than Muslims in our ability to hate those who are "different" and to punish and oppress those weaker than us.

You're fear mongering again, by comparing the actions of people during wartime to the actions of the Nazis during the holocaust. 

The Japanese army and navy were actually strong enough that they had a very good chance of beating the Americans in the Pacific. The Americans just got lucky and won a major surprise victory after Pearl Harbour, at Midway, which turned the tide in favour of America. 

Japanese Americans in Hawaii were known to have aided the Japanese who attacked Pearl Harbour, and Japanese in NA were detained as a precaution. They weren't murdered like the religious minorities were recently in Pakistan, Turkey, Armenia, Bangladesh, Iraq, Syria, Kurdistan, etc.

Quote

I do remain hopeful that the poison of the extreme right and the GOP will not overtake Canada and that our committment to human rights continues to grow.

You aren't "hopeful", you're a fear monger, or at the very best, if I give you the absolute benefit of the doubt, you're religiously deluded and you live in ignorance & paranoia. 

[Shady]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Yeah, I used to think so too. 

Then you used to be correct.  The rest of your post is complete and utter nonsense.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Yeah, I used to think so too.  And then Trump was elected, people are pushing the ideology of hatred, racism and exclusion on and offline, anti-woman policies are necoming more popular in the States and among Canadian conservatives, White Supremacist groups are growing and are becoming more active.

Oh please. Anti-woman? What 'anti-woman' policies are becoming popular with Canadian conservatives?

The number of white supremacists on the whole continent couldn't fill a hockey arena. And there is pretty much zero evidence of any growth in racism. Nor is 'hatred' an ideology. It's simply the latest pejorative cooked up in the febrile minds of intolerant liberals to label anyone who disagrees with them on a wide variety of social value issues.

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Sure, "our" extremists aren't murdering people or shrouding and oppressing women to the extent that Islamic extremists do,

Or AT ALL.

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

 

but Islamic ideology ideology of hatred isn't a lot different than the ideology of hatred that currently exists among certain groups and individuals in the West.

I bet those groups don't have a billion followers.

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

This is all complete, utter bullshit dialamah. 

You're comparing something that is actually happening right now on the planet to something that you think might be happening.

That's part and parcel of how western feminists think. They embrace (with horror) the ideas from Margaret Atwood about how woman hating Christians in the future would remove women's rights and make them wear goofy red outfits, while completely dismissing that much of the Muslim world does worse than that NOW. Not just dismissing it but embracing it as a wonderful expression of their culture, and defending it tooth and nail!

Oh, save women from the terrible Right!

Oh save the wonderful Muslims from the terrible Right!

Edited February 7, 2020 by Argus

[Shady]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Oh please. Anti-woman? What 'anti-woman' policies are becoming popular with Canadian conservatives?

The number of white supremacists on the whole continent couldn't fill a hockey arena. And there is pretty much zero evidence of any growth in racism. Nor is 'hatred' an ideology. It's simply the latest pejorative cooked up in the febrile minds of intolerant liberals to label anyone who disagrees with them on a wide variety of social value issues.

Or AT ALL.

I bet those groups don't have a billion followers.

 

To dialamah any common sense abortion law is considered anti-woman.  If you’ve ever heard of gun nuts, well dialamah is an abortion nut.  

[Modest]

"Proud Conservative" you made me laugh a lot !  You read my comments a bit, have got furious and that darkened all your brain. Otherwise one would never conclude that I am muslim, or that I support the idea that covering girls in bags, especially when they are so beautiful as the oriental arab girls are (I actually support the idea that it is useful to cover in a burka the ugly young girls of North America, which in a good percentage are muzzle-faced (maxillary prognathism). I see as barbaric and heartless all the muslim traditions related to the prudishness or modesty. What I am though enough lucid to admit is only that due to these religious and patriarchal traditions their women breed enough so that they supply the manque à gagner made by the barrenness of our women, so that our broken society to continue to function. And about that you should think too, if there is any brain power left after your last crisis of fury: taking the traditions of muslims of today, or  reverting to our own traditions that reclaim our ownership over our women, that is the only solution to avoid the replacement by the most ugly humans on earth. I would have very much liked to see that the rational humanist liberalism of our succeed to make us free, happy but also durable in time. It failed. It not even tried to. The reality, the biology made the human species dependent of their women in order to survive as community. To forfeit women, the West showed the world, mean to forfeit a future in which you are still present in any relevant number or quantity. That's it, that's all. To conclude, you dont have to show me pictures of the beautiful southern and oriental girls - I am flooded culturally speaking in my Eastern European country in which I was born by this cliché of the beautiful black-haired or black-eyed girl. The most popular song EVER in Russian (smuglianka moldavanka - smoggy or smoky moldavian girl, cмуглянка Молдаванка) speaks about such a girl, that bewitch the Russian young guy, and this song is still played in chinese language or in korean). Ochi Chernye (black eyes), Karie Glaza (regard noir, I dont know how to translate it better in english), Ya Chernyava, as meny songs about the exotic beauty of the women of Asia. 

Where you found this idea that I am not happy with the way your girls dress ???   The problems with your girls is that where I live at least, they are awfully ugly, because half of them are negresses in the young cohorts. Thatès Canada view from Montreal ! 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Modest

[Goddess]

11 minutes ago, Modest said:

"Proud Conservative" you made me laugh a lot !  You read my comments a bit, have got furious and that darkened all your brain. Otherwise one would never conclude that I am muslim, or that I support the idea that covering girls in bags, especially when they are so beautiful as the oriental arab girls are (I actually support the idea that it is useful to cover in a burka the ugly young girls of North America, which in a good percentage are muzzle-faced (maxillary prognathism). I see as barbaric and heartless all the muslim traditions related to the prudishness or modesty. What I am though enough lucid to admit is only that due to these religious and patriarchal traditions their women breed enough so that they supply the manque à gagner made by the barrenness of our women, so that our broken society to continue to function. And about that you should think too, if there is any brain power left after your last crisis of fury: taking the traditions of muslims of today, or  reverting to our own traditions that reclaim our ownership over our women, that is the only solution to avoid the replacement by the most ugly humans on earth. I would have very much liked to see that the rational humanist liberalism of our succeed to make us free, happy but also durable in time. It failed. It not even tried to. The reality, the biology made the human species dependent of their women in order to survive as community. To forfeit women, the West showed the world, mean to forfeit a future in which you are still present in any relevant number or quantity. That's it, that's all. To conclude, you dont have to show me pictures of the beautiful southern and oriental girls - I am flooded culturally speaking in my Eastern European country in which I was born by this cliché of the beautiful black-haired or black-eyed girl. The most popular song EVER in Russian (smuglianka moldavanka - smoggy or smoky moldavian girl, cмуглянка Молдаванка) speaks about such a girl, that bewitch the Russian young guy, and this song is still played in chinese language or in korean). Ochi Chernye (black eyes), Karie Glaza (regard noir, I dont know how to translate it better in english), Ya Chernyava, as meny songs about the exotic beauty of the women of Asia. 

Where you found this idea that I am not happy with the way your girls dress ???   The problems with your girls is that where I live at least, they are awfully ugly, because half of them are negresses in the young cohorts. Thatès Canada view from Montreal ! 

 

 

[Modest]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

What the hell is it you're even trying to say here? Is English a third language for you? What do you mean quantifying the horror is something only Jews do and for profit? I gather you're an anti-Semite. Which is not especially surprising in an Islamophile.  

Yes, english is my third (actually fourth) language. Please read The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering by Norman Finkelstein, in order to understand that criticising Jews is not always and automatically anti-semitism. You seem to suggest that all the people on earth can be criticised except jews. Useless to tell you that is stupid as idea. Please define islamophile before pasting this label on me. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Argus said:

 

No one has suggested every Muslim country across the world enforces Islamic values to the same degree in the same way.

But they ALL enforce them. And those values, coming from a religion which, unlike Christianity or Judiaism, has never experienced a reformation, are violent and backward.

Perhaps you don't understand that the New Testament is the story of Jesus Christ. Christians base their views and values on that, not on the old testament. As an example, the OT agreed to stoning. But Jesus said no. So that's no for Christians.

No even remotely mainstream Christian church suggests that the morals or punishments of the OT are relevant or should be imposed today. But pretty much all of Islam still accepts the harsh punishments towards blasphemers, apostates, adulterers and others as Islamic law. Just as they do the view of unbelievers, women, gays, etc.

 

I know very well that some of the jewish ethics of the Old Testament seem to have been repelled by Jesus, but fact is that the same Jesus made from other points of view the old testament ethos worse: the idea of punishment after death is one of this: the old tribal god of the jews was happy in the old testament to kill his enemies. The new god of the new testament is more cruel: he put his torture chamber where someone cannot escape simply by dying or being killed. If one is to believe the stupid and cruel doctrine of christianity (islam and rabinic judaism too) called eternal punishment, one is supposed to accept that death cannot end the punishment you get, deserved or not. The doctrine was accepted and promoted by Jesus, unfortunately. The mere fact that the OT is still part of the Christian Bible it is significant and has effects that are far to be minor - all too frequently some christians re-read these dogmas and ideas in their Bible and want to punish and discriminate others (homosexuals, people of other religions, women, etc.).     

[Modest]

28 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

 Actually I dont like them shaved. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Modest

[Modest]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

No one has suggested every Muslim country across the world enforces Islamic values to the same degree in the same way.

But they ALL enforce them. And those values, coming from a religion which, unlike Christianity or Judiaism, has never experienced a reformation, are violent and backward.

Perhaps you don't understand that the New Testament is the story of Jesus Christ. Christians base their views and values on that, not on the old testament. As an example, the OT agreed to stoning. But Jesus said no. So that's no for Christians.

No even remotely mainstream Christian church suggests that the morals or punishments of the OT are relevant or should be imposed today. But pretty much all of Islam still accepts the harsh punishments towards blasphemers, apostates, adulterers and others as Islamic law. Just as they do the view of unbelievers, women, gays, etc.

But fundamentalism is the antecedent of fanaticism, and fanaticism is a requirement for terrorism. Thus the more people you have who are fundamentalists, the more fanaticism you have and thus the more terrorism. Muslim numbers in Canada have been doubling every ten years since the 1970s and they are set to triple over the next twenty years. I might add I'm unaware of any country with a sizeable Muslim minority which does not experience terrorism, and demands from the Muslim minority for special treatment and laws to recognize the laws and values of Islam. And those values are irredeemably hostile to unbelievers.

Canada's laws and values are a product of its citizens. The more Muslims here who believe in the harsh and backward values of Islam, the more their votes will influence our laws and political climate.

 

 

 

Yes, you are right globally. If you admit that not all muslims, not all islamic countries are as bigoted as some or a majority of them are, that is pretty OK from my point of view. You seem to think that the fact that muslims grow fast in our population is dangerous. And from what you said above and what I admit it is true, that makes sense. Unfortunately only SUPERFICALLY. What it is the point to maintain our laws and customs, which condemned us to be replaced by africans or arabs ?  If we, as people, we are not so precious to be preserved, WHY should the ideas we died and have got extinct for, be saved ??????????????????????  You seem to be in the old and ridiculous paradigm that says "sacrificing people to save ideas, rather than sacrificing ideas to save people." 

I for one prefer to take a look at how the muslims now and our ancestors yesterday made possible to make a society sustainable demographically, in order to give our children a chance to be. Ideas ? Ideologies ? No matter how humanistic, rational or morally they are, as long as they condemn ME to extinction, I dont give a damn shit about them !   

Edited February 7, 2020 by Modest

[Modest]

4 hours ago, Shady said:

The problem with your argument is that you’re comparing people from 500+ years ago to people now.  The world has evolved.  At least most of it that’s not influenced by Islam.

Chinese bolshevics kill people by fire squad. Thousands each year. Chinese budhists and Indian hindus killed in the half century hundreds of million women by selective abortion and neglect of baby girls after birth. Each one for RELIGIOUS reasons . . .  The Americans condemn some 40 000 people to dye each year for not having medical insurance. And you dare to tell me that the world evolved. And that islam is the worse thing humankind has today. Are you serious ?

Edited February 7, 2020 by Modest

[Modest]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

And then Trump was elected, people are pushing the ideology of hatred, racism and exclusion on and offline, anti-woman policies are necoming more popular in the States and among Canadian conservatives, White Supremacist groups are growing and are becoming more active.

A stupid, fascist, racist and elitist guy like Trump would have never been elected if the system (liberal democracy and capitalism) would have not pushed the White people toward a future as a minority. Maybe there is people that can seriously think that the Whites are superior to other races, or that they deserve to be other races masters. I think that someone has to be very, very, very stupid to believe that. Such very, very, very stupid people unavoidably are very, very, very rare and far between. In contrast, there is White people that understand that they are condemned to be swamped by other races, and in North America unfortunately by the most ugly race on earth, and that is disturbing. They are silenced, they are derided, they are stupidly attacked and humiliated by other people that have no more brain than heart, and that is letting the pressure just increase.  

Edited February 7, 2020 by Modest

[Shady]

35 minutes ago, Modest said:

Chinese bolshevics kill people by fire squad. Thousands each year. Chinese budhists and Indian hindus killed in the half century hundreds of million women by selective abortion and neglect of baby girls after birth. Each one for RELIGIOUS reasons . . .  The Americans condemn some 40 000 people to dye each year for not having medical insurance. And you dare to tell me that the world evolved. And that islam is the worse thing humankind has today. Are you serious ?

Where are you getting your numbers from?  And over what period of time?  Hundreds of millions of women killed?  Regardless, people choose not to get health insurance, even though it’s widely available, and very inexpensive if you start when you’re young.  But people would rather spend their money on other things.

But yes, I’m very serious.  The world, if you’re unaware, used to be much much worse.  Or do you think people had more rights 500 years ago?  Do you also think women had it better 500 years ago?  How about homosexuals?  How about children?  How about anyone that wasn’t part of the elite?  But yes, Islam is the worst of the bad that’s left in the world.  It’s an indisputable fact.  Facts don’t care about your feelings.

[Modest]

11 minutes ago, Shady said:

Where are you getting your numbers from?  And over what period of time?  Hundreds of millions of women killed?  Regardless, people choose not to get health insurance, even though it’s widely available, and very inexpensive if you start when you’re young.  But people would rather spend their money on other things.

But yes, I’m very serious.  The world, if you’re unaware, used to be much much worse.  Or do you think people had more rights 500 years ago?  Do you also think women had it better 500 years ago?  How about homosexuals?  How about children?  How about anyone that wasn’t part of the elite?  But yes, Islam is the worst of the bad that’s left in the world.  It’s an indisputable fact.  Facts don’t care about your feelings.

I already gave the reference: The Black Book of Womenès Condition by Christine Ockrent. 

No, people choose not to get health insurance in USA because there lacks the system that already all the civilized Western (and Estern) countries have. Even though it’s widely available, and very inexpensive if you start when you’re young, the economic system put pressure on them to spend on gadgets by ads and pair pressure and conformity. The same people made to live in other country than US, would survive, despite their stupid buyer choices. Your apology is ridiculous. 

[Modest]

36 minutes ago, Shady said:

But yes, I’m very serious.  The world, if you’re unaware, used to be much much worse.  Or do you think people had more rights 500 years ago?  Do you also think women had it better 500 years ago?  How about homosexuals?  How about children?  How about anyone that wasn’t part of the elite?  But yes, Islam is the worst of the bad that’s left in the world.  It’s an indisputable fact.  Facts don’t care about your feelings.

You pick only the facts you like, and using them conclude preposterously. Did islam kill as many people like Western "world wars" or ideologies like liberalism (colonialism), nazism and marxism ?

The 70 000 deaths in the opioid crisis of only the last year in USA, it is also the fault of the victims? 

Or maybe for that yearly massacre the pharmaceutical companies that advertised aggressively and put pressure on physicians in a broken and immoral system, have some responsibility  ????  

Edited February 7, 2020 by Modest

[Shady]

13 minutes ago, Modest said:

You pick only the facts you like, and using them conclude preposterously. Did islam kill as many people like Western "world wars" or ideologies like liberalism (colonialism), nazism and marxism ?

The 70 000 deaths in the opioid crisis of only the last year in USA, it is also the fault of the victims? 

Or maybe for that yearly massacre the pharmaceutical companies that advertised aggressively and put pressure on physicists in a broken and immoral system, have some responsibility  ????  

Even accepting all of that, the world is far better now than 500+ years ago.  Are you seriously arguing that it isn’t?  That’s bizarre and as delusional of an argument I’ve ever heard.  All the facts suggest otherwise.  Standards of living are much better, life expectancy is much better, education levels are much better, human rights are much better.  Pretty much everything is much better.  If you think it isn’t, then sell your home and move out to the woods, and see how you like it! 

[Modest]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

Even accepting all of that, the world is far better now than 500+ years ago.  Are you seriously arguing that it isn’t?  That’s bizarre and as delusional of an argument I’ve ever heard.  All the facts suggest otherwise.  Standards of living are much better, life expectancy is much better, education levels are much better, human rights are much better.  Pretty much everything is much better.  If you think it isn’t, then sell your home and move out to the woods, and see how you like it! 

Shady, where exactly have I ever argued that today we live worse lives than our ancestors did 500 yr ago ? 

[Shady]

22 minutes ago, Modest said:

I already gave the reference: The Black Book of Womenès Condition by Christine Ockrent. 

No, people choose not to get health insurance in USA because there lacks the system that already all the civilized Western (and Estern) countries have. Even though it’s widely available, and very inexpensive if you start when you’re young, the economic system put pressure on them to spend on gadgets by ads and pair pressure and conformity. The same people made to live in other country than US, would survive, despite their stupid buyer choices. Your apology is ridiculous. 

No, it’s cheapest when you start young, and you don’t have to worry about pre-existing conditions.  Taxes are lower in America, so is the cost of fuel, food, housing, etc.  If somebody wants to, they can afford insurance.  But many people choose not to, because they’re irresponsible.  Regardless, the vast majority of Americans have health insurance.  Either through their employer, or through the government run options like Medicare and Medicaid.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Modest said:

 And you dare to tell me that the world evolved.

Right here.  You apparently don’t understand the world has absolutely evolved on literally every aspect of life and society.  

[Modest]

15 minutes ago, Shady said:

No, it’s cheapest when you start young, and you don’t have to worry about pre-existing conditions.  Taxes are lower in America, so is the cost of fuel, food, housing, etc.  If somebody wants to, they can afford insurance.  But many people choose not to, because they’re irresponsible.  Regardless, the vast majority of Americans have health insurance.  Either through their employer, or through the government run options like Medicare and Medicaid.

Nothing new, my dear . . . Fact is that doesn't happen. And that doesn't happen because the system is bad and broken. The model it is not adapted to the human nature. That's the fact. The fact that vast majority is insured it is not enough to avoid the shameful fact that 40 000 people die each year for not having medical coverage. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Modest

[Modest]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

Right here.  You apparently don’t understand the world has absolutely evolved on literally every aspect of life and society.  

Yes. It is my fault. We evolved. I never doubted actually. Not so much as you like to think, in my opinion, but it is fact: we evolved. 

[paxamericana]

On 2/6/2020 at 2:46 PM, jacee said:

Canada is not "a Muslim country".

Your comments are irrelevant to this topic of refugees arriving and living in Canada, who are fleeing from oppression and violence.

Pretty sure they're just looking to make a buck like everyone else who comes. There's stability and peace in north korea russia and china....

[Rue]

8 hours ago, paxamericana said:

There's stability and peace in north korea russia and china....

..and you know this because...

Me I have to rely on sources such as:

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/North-Korea/wb_political_stability/

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Russia/wb_political_stability/

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/China/wb_political_stability/

These 3 countries don't produce refugees but its not by any means as a result of stability. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Rue