Jump to content

More Critism about Canada from the US and the world...


Army Guy

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

It doesn't.  It can just print its own.

Must be easier to grow the wealth gap by borrowing I guess.

That's why the value of a dollar constantly decreases compared to hard assets and other nations' currencies.

Trudeau is doing all he can to make our dollar into a peso.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

The United States and Canada should stop sending foreign aid to Israel, and Palestine. The more we give, the more their lobbiest will try and hijack our democracy... . Put Canada first, and forget Israel and Palestine.

If they don't know how to live peaceful, that's their problem. Not ours!

I think we should put economic Sanctions on Isreal and all neighbouring countries, until the create a two state solution.

That will never happen, because the military industrial complex needs an excuse to sell weapons.

Israel is also one of our only real allies in that strategically vital region.  The Israel lobbies in the US and Canada are extremely powerful and well-connected, good luck to anyone breaking away from them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The way I see it is that Israel occupies 1% of the ME and they're just looking to be left alone. If the other guys get their way all of the Israelis will be dead. It's an easy choice for me to pick the side that doesn't want to commit genocide.

The existence of Israel is no less legitimate than the existence of Pakistan and not a single person who bemoans the existence of Israel is upset by the existence of Pakistan, so I chalk their intentions up to pure bigotry. 

Both countries were created in the same way, the only difference is that the Pakistanis killed everyone that they didn't want or drove them out, and there are no camps full of people wanting back into Pakistan because it's a religiously bigoted shithole where the government still executes people for their religious beliefs.

I'm not saying one side isn't necessarily worse than the other.  I'm saying neither side can claim to be saints.  Both sides have legit gripes too.  There are no "sides" to take overall, just many different issues in the whole conflict.  Some things done by Israel or Palestinian leadership groups just can't be defended.  To take one side over the other is to get sucked into the sh!t-show. 

Things shouldn't be looked at as "overall this side is good vs this side is bad", it should be looked at on an issue-by-issue basis.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Things shouldn't be looked at as "overall this side is good vs this side is bad", it should be looked at on an issue-by-issue basis.

Having genocide as a stated goal is an important issue. Giving out pensions to the families of suicide bombers is an important issue. Claiming that a country has no right to exist is an important issue. Constantly launching rocket and mortar attacks against civilian populations is an important issue.

What issues do you have that compare to these ones? 

If you talk to all the anti-Israeli bigots out there just ask them how they'd respond if India had a stated goal of genocide against Pakistanis. What if India was sponsoring suicide bombers and claiming that Pakistan had no right to exist? What if they were launching rocket and mortar attacks against Pakistani residential neighbourhoods?

Anti-Israelis are hideous bigots or they've been indoctrinated by bigots and they don't know any better. It's easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they've been fooled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Having genocide as a stated goal is an important issue. Giving out pensions to the families of suicide bombers is an important issue. Claiming that a country has no right to exist is an important issue. Constantly launching rocket and mortar attacks against civilian populations is an important issue.

What issues do you have that compare to these ones?

Disproportionately launching airstrike runs in Gaza killing thousands to get back for a few killed Israelis.  Illegally annexing land illegally via war (ie: 1948 war), and continuing to colonize land illegally and planning to annex more:  https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/netanyahu-hints-trump-peace-plan-will-allow-israel-annex-key-west-bank-territory/

Netanyahu would ethnically cleanse every Arab off of historical Israel land and annex it all if he could get away with it.  Sure the Palestinian leadership would kill every Israeli if they could get away with it.  Ok so they're both a-holes, that's my point.  Let's play a game, it's called "pick your favourite a-hole", that's the game you're playing. No thanks.

Edited by Moonlight Graham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ProudConservative

The biggest problem with Isreal and the Arabs... Is they won't compromise. We need a two state sollution, but Isreal is greedy. They don't want to give up their land. It's really stupid... all this money they spend on defense, they could invest into their citizens and economy. Few people want to go to Isreal, because they're worried it could be bombed at any time. It's a shame, because they have nice beaches and beautiful women. Let palestine become it's own country. The world should recognize and give palestine an identity. People want an identity.

This whole, lets use Isreal to scapegoat the Arabs is pathetic. It leads to violence, and not a mindset of peace.

Come to think about it, I'm happy Canada is United, and we don't have a civil was with the provinces. We take our peace and security for granted in Canada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

The biggest problem with Isreal and the Arabs... Is they won't compromise. We need a two state sollution, but Isreal is greedy. They don't want to give up their land. It's really stupid... all this money they spend on defense, they could invest into their citizens and economy. Few people want to go to Isreal, because they're worried it could be bombed at any time. It's a shame, because they have nice beaches and beautiful women. Let palestine become it's own country. The world should recognize and give palestine an identity. People want an identity.

This whole, lets use Isreal to scapegoat the Arabs is pathetic. It leads to violence, and not a mindset of peace.

Come to think about it, I'm happy Canada is United, and we don't have a civil was with the provinces. We take our peace and security for granted in Canada.

There will never be peace in Israel region.  In Canada the English, French, and aboriginals are still squabbling with each other centuries later.  But let's bring millions of nationalistic south asians and chinese into this mess before it's fixed, that'll make everything better!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Disproportionately launching airstrike runs in Gaza killing thousands to get back for a few killed Israelis.  Illegally annexing land illegally via war (ie: 1948 war), and continuing to colonize land illegally and planning to annex more:  https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/netanyahu-hints-trump-peace-plan-will-allow-israel-annex-key-west-bank-territory/

Netanyahu would ethnically cleanse every Arab off of historical Israel land and annex it all if he could get away with it.  Sure the Palestinian leadership would kill every Israeli if they could get away with it.  Ok so they're both a-holes, that's my point.  Let's play a game, it's called "pick your favourite a-hole", that's the game you're playing. No thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

They attacked Israel, they lost ground. They launched terrorist attacks, they paid a price. Not sure what part of this you don't understand. I'll be available for questions later.

Here's the formation of Pakistan, for comparison:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

Quote

The partition displaced between 10–12 million people along religious lines, creating overwhelming refugee crises in the newly constituted dominions; there was large-scale violence, with estimates of loss of life accompanying or preceding the partition disputed and varying between several hundred thousand and two million.[1][c] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight 1970, still killin' it:

Quote

Pakistani President Yahya Khan at a conference in February 1971 said "Kill three million of them and the rest will eat out of our hands."[14] Prolonged Bengali resistance was not anticipated by the Pakistani military leaders.[15] The main phase of Operation Searchlight ended with the fall of the last major Bengali-held town in mid-May. The operation also precipitated the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, in which 300,000-3,000,000 civilians were killed and roughly 10 million refugees fled to India.[16][17]Bengali intelligentsia, academics and Hindus were targeted for the harshest treatment, with significant indiscriminate killing taking place. These systematic killings enraged the Bengalis, who declared independence from Pakistan, to establish the new nation of Bangladesh.[18]

and:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Bangladesh_Liberation_War

Quote

During the 1971 Bangladesh war for independence, members of the Pakistani military and Razakar supposedly raped between 200,000 and 400,000 Bangladeshi women and girls in a systematic campaign of genocidal rape.[1][2][3][4] During the war, some writers believe that a fatwa in Bangladesh was declared that the Bengali freedom fighters were "Hindus" and that their women could be taken as the "booty of war".[5] Allegedly Imams and Muslim religious leaders publicly declared that the Bengali women were gonimoter maal (war booty) and thus they openly supported the rape of Bengali women by the Razakars.[6]

The activists and leaders of Islamic parties are also accused to be involved in the rapes and abduction of women.[6] Scholars have suggested that rape was used to terrorise both the Bengali-speaking Muslim majority and the Hindu minority of Bangladesh. Those rapes apparently caused thousands of pregnancies, births of war babies, abortions, infanticide, suicide, and ostracisation of the victims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_in_Pakistan 

Quote

Between 1987 and 2017 at least 1,500 people were charged with blasphemy and at least 75 people involved in accusations of blasphemy were killed in Pakistan according to the Center for Social Justice.[6]

Many people accused of blasphemy have been murdered before their trials were over,[2][7] and prominent figures who opposed the blasphemy law have been assassinated.[1] Since 1990, 62 people have been murdered following blasphemy allegations.[8] According to one religious minority source, an accusation of blasphemy commonly exposes the accused, police, lawyers, and judges to harassment, threats, attacks and rioting.[9] Critics complain that Pakistan's blasphemy laws are "overwhelmingly being used to persecute religious minorities and settle personal vendettas,"[10] but calls for change in blasphemy laws have been strongly resisted by Islamic parties - most prominently the Barelvi school of Islam.[8]

The anatomy of a shithole country...

Next time you think about complaining about how bad Israel is, just think about how Pakistan handled separation. Over 5 million killed. That's like if the Israelis killed everyone in the Palestinian refugee camps 8 times.

300,000 women raped in a campaign of genocidal rape, in the 1970s. Welcome to the dark ages. 

They still kill people for blasphemy. Not terrorist attacks, or attempted terrorist attacks. They just kill people who say the wrong thing. IE, Pakistan is constantly undergoing a systemic cleansing of the population through extreme religious bigotry which is enforced by the government.

This is how Pakistan handles people who act like Palestinians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Balochistan

When people act like they're humanitarians speaking out against Israel, ask them how they feel about Pakistan. Then you'll know if they're truly humanitarians or if they're just bigots.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IDF air strikes against the Gaza strip are proportionate under the laws of armed conflict

The war criminals are the ones firing military grade rockets while employing human shields.

The IDF conducts mandated collateral mitigation and employs precision guided weapons, there is not indiscriminate nor disproportionate use of force by the IDF

Israel is within its rights to defend itself with military force against a military threat

Hamas is responsible for ensuring no such threats attack Israel from within their territory.

The accusation of disproportionate use of force is false propaganda disseminated, whether by intent,  or simply ignorance as to the letter of the law.

Ha Yitaron Ha Enoshi

 

Edited by Dougie93
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Disproportionately launching airstrike runs in Gaza killing thousands to get back for a few killed Israelis.

I really don't get this 'disproportionate' argument. Like, if there's just two gunmen the police should only use two police officers to attack them? A terrorist group only has a hundred guys so you should limit the people fighting them to a hundred guys?

I'm willing to bet that wherever you live, if you had to keep running down to the bomb shelter because the guys across the river kept shooting rockets and missiles across at you you'd want the government to do whatever it took to get them to stop.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The laws of armed conflict mandate military necessity, proportionality and collateral mitigation.

The IDF is compliant in all respects and within their rights to defend Israel from attack.

Collaterally mitigated precision military strikes against a deeply entrenched and fortified enemy launching indiscriminate military attacks from populated areas.

The war criminals are Hamas, deliberately using the population as human shields, which is patently unlawful,

Whereas precision air strikes against those criminals are patently lawful, military necessity against a military threat.

Only useful idiots for the terrorists advocate against right to self defense with military force proportionate to a military threat.

If Hamas did not pose a military threat, air strikes might not be a neccesity, if it was merely rifles fired into Israel, perhaps not proportionate.

As Gaza however is a military fortress,  launching widespread rocket attacks into population centers, air strikes are proportionate to that level of threat.

The laws of armed conflict are not a shield from behind which terrorists may launch unlawful attacks, you must follow the law to be protected by it.

Collateral damage is not prohibited, Israel is simply bound to take reasonable steps to mitigate it, fighting a war in of itself however,  is not illegal.

 

Edited by Dougie93
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

The biggest problem with Isreal and the Arabs... Is they won't compromise. We need a two state sollution, but Isreal is greedy. They don't want to give up their land. It's really stupid... all this money they spend on defense, they could invest into their citizens and economy. Few people want to go to Isreal, because they're worried it could be bombed at any time. It's a shame, because they have nice beaches and beautiful women. Let palestine become it's own country. The world should recognize and give palestine an identity. People want an identity.

Palestine can have all the identity they want on the land that they currently occupy. That's not the issue.

The issue is that "Palestinians" want every square inch for Palestine. They want the word Israel to be a thing of the past. They don't want a two-state solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

They attacked Israel, they lost ground. They launched terrorist attacks, they paid a price. Not sure what part of this you don't understand. I'll be available for questions later.

They annexed land they gained through warfare.  That is fundamentally against the most basic rules of international law.  It wasn't their land.  It doesn't matter if they were defending themselves.  You can't just grab land from your enemies and make it yours.  That's literally what Hitler did.

There was a partition plan approved by the UN, Israel said "eff that we're taking a ton more".  You can bomb villages and have people flee their homes and communities and then annex those villages.  Sorry, the rules of war don't work that way.  The UN was created to prevent crap like Hitler from happening again and they crapped all over the charter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The issue is that "Palestinians" want every square inch for Palestine. They want the word Israel to be a thing of the past. They don't want a two-state solution.

Netanyahu doesn't want a 2-state solution either, they keep stealing their land illegally.  The people of Israel keep re-electing Netanyahu.

I'm not saying the Arabs are better than the Israelis, they really aren't at all.

Most people in that region, Israelis or Muslims, are a bunch of religious nutters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

They annexed land they gained through warfare.  That is fundamentally against the most basic rules of international law.  It wasn't their land.  It doesn't matter if they were defending themselves.  You can't just grab land from your enemies and make it yours.  That's literally what Hitler did.

 

Canada (and the United States) have been criticized for doing exactly the same thing on a scale that makes Israel and the occupied territories a tiny speck in comparison.  Unceded (stolen) land and associated claims /compensation remain contentious issues far longer than Israel has even existed.   UN resolutions for indigenous rights continue to be ignored.   Yes, you can indeed just grab land and make it yours...just blame the almighty "Crown" and empire !

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/10/2019 at 4:16 PM, WestCanMan said:

That's why the value of a dollar constantly decreases compared to hard assets and other nations' currencies.

Trudeau is doing all he can to make our dollar into a peso.

 

Not sure though if that is him or world market conditions. It seems to be a choice all our PM's make Tory or Liberal to be fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Canada (and the United States) have been criticized for doing exactly the same thing on a scale that makes Israel and the occupied territories a tiny speck in comparison.  Unceded (stolen) land and associated claims /compensation remain contentious issues far longer than Israel has even existed.   UN resolutions for indigenous rights continue to be ignored.   Yes, you can indeed just grab land and make it yours...just blame the almighty "Crown" and empire !

Sometimes you can be dead on as a Tomahawk missile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Netanyahu doesn't want a 2-state solution either, they keep stealing their land illegally.  The people of Israel keep re-electing Netanyahu.

I'm not saying the Arabs are better than the Israelis, they really aren't at all.

Most people in that region, Israelis or Muslims, are a bunch of religious nutters.

No Moonman. Of course he does and its not a two state solution it would be a 3 state solution because Jordan is already a Palestinian state. You don't know what he or any other Israeli politician wants. They posture. What they really want you and I do not know other than no sane leader wants war. You are also wrong about Israelis being religious. 95% are not.

See Moonlight there are a lot of stereotypes and assumptions people make that just are not true. For example most Palestinians are not religious either. Fundamentalist  Muslims are a minority in their population. The actual disputes between Palestinians and Israelis over land also involves Christians and three levels of government in Jordan and Israel and it mostly land disputes between Palestinians not even Israelis and Palestinians.

The settlements are not the issue. The sewage, lack of water and terrorists preventing Palestinians from working with Israelis that are the major issues

Israelis and Palestinians are not religious and can and do get along. Its outsiders and terror cells compromised by corrupt leaders putting money in overseas bank accounts that keep the conflict going.

Back to the original issue, any nation's leader  that sees no problem joining a one sided resolution from North Korea and Zimbabwe as a price to pay to sit on the security council is the problem. Trudeau has no morals. That is clear. He just had Canada bend over and have it inserted in the name of what? What? What did Trudeau achieve other than to show he is a weak, spineless immoral two face. Lester Pearson would have never sold Canada out that way nor would his father have,

Edited by Rue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada (and the United States) have been criticized for doing exactly the same thing on a scale that makes Israel and the occupied territories a tiny speck in comparison.  Unceded (stolen) land and associated claims /compensation remain contentious issues far longer than Israel has even existed.   UN resolutions for indigenous rights continue to be ignored.   Yes, you can indeed just grab land and make it yours...just blame the almighty "Crown" and empire !

That happened pre international law.  Pre-UN.  That happened even before the treaty at Westphalia in 1648 that established the concept of sovereign state borders in the international realm.  Legally the 2 situations can't be compared because centuries ago it was literally a global free-for-all of countries constantly trying to conquer each other and annex land.  This formally ended in 1945.  Legally in Canada now the land claims issue is about treaties from centuries ago and land that was never ceded legally by treaties.

The European powers that established the UN literally saved the Jews from extinction, then the UN gifts Jews a ton of land they don't even live on or own and which the Jews agree to, then these Jews turn around spit on the UN and grab all the land they can get their hands on at gun-point from people that were living there for thousands of years and ethnically cleanse parts of the area of the undesirables and won't and still haven't granted the refugees that fled the war a right to return.

Canada and the US have pulled their own d!ck moves and so has Israel, and so have the Palestinians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

That happened pre international law.  Pre-UN. 

 

So that makes it OK ?   The UN has no such power....then or now.   Only power has power, and Canada continues to exercise same over "Crown" land with impunity, despite generations of conflict and unsettled land claims...critics be damned.

 

Quote

Canada and the US have pulled their own d!ck moves and so has Israel, and so have the Palestinians.

 

OK...then I am sure you support that the same solution proposed for Israel and Palestine be applied to Canada....a multiple sovereign state solution. Let's see how much of Canada would get behind that.    Those who judge Israel so harshly often do so from the comfort of their own "occupied territory", with no threat of rocket attacks on a daily basis.   Must be nice.....

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...